Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

England v Ireland St Patricks Day 2012

1…4344454648

Comments

  • #1412
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,261 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    JRant wrote: »
    Even then there's no guarantee he'd go tbh. Our current management setup really believe in what their doing. I don't but that that's immaterial as long as the blazers in the IRFU do. I'd say if the crowds start staying away from Landsdowne he'd be gone in a heartbeat.

    Didn't take bad crowds for EOS to go.

    Given how little is left of his tenure (summer next year?) I'd be amazed if he's not let finish out his contract regardless of results.


  • #1413
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,709 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    JRant wrote: »
    Even then there's no guarantee he'd go tbh. Our current management setup really believe in what their doing. I don't but that that's immaterial as long as the blazers in the IRFU do. I'd say if the crowds start staying away from Landsdowne he'd be gone in a heartbeat.

    Didn't take bad crowds for EOS to go.

    Given how little is left of his tenure (summer next year?) I'd be amazed if he's not let finish out his contract regardless of results.

    No but the Press had it in for EOS at the time, this time around they're mostly giving DK an easy ride.
    Maybe if Munster really want him he may leave at the end of this season. Barring that I'd have to agree with you about him being left finish out his contract. Could be a long 12 months if that happens.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1414
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    JRant wrote: »
    No but the Press had it in for EOS at the time, this time around they're mostly giving DK an easy ride.
    Maybe if Munster really want him he may leave at the end of this season. Barring that I'd have to agree with you about him being left finish out his contract. Could be a long 12 months if that happens.
    And player confidence will go through the floor. It's going to be grit your teeth and peep through your fingers time because it's not going to be pretty and whoever takes over wil have an uphill task on their hands.


  • #1415
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,709 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    rrpc wrote: »
    JRant wrote: »
    No but the Press had it in for EOS at the time, this time around they're mostly giving DK an easy ride.
    Maybe if Munster really want him he may leave at the end of this season. Barring that I'd have to agree with you about him being left finish out his contract. Could be a long 12 months if that happens.
    And player confidence will go through the floor. It's going to be grit your teeth and peep through your fingers time because it's not going to be pretty and whoever takes over wil have an uphill task on their hands.

    When you look at the fixture line up for the next 6N's is doesn't get any prettier either. Wales up first on 9th Feb followed by England.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1416
    skregs
    Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭skregs


    JRant wrote: »
    Even then there's no guarantee he'd go tbh. Our current management setup really believe in what their doing. I don't but that that's immaterial as long as the blazers in the IRFU do. I'd say if the crowds start staying away from Landsdowne he'd be gone in a heartbeat.

    If there's one thing blazers hate, it's admitting they made a mistake. Kidney will be the "right man for the job" because firing him would make it look like they were wrong to sign him in the first place.


  • Advertisement
  • #1417
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,261 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    skregs wrote: »
    If there's one thing blazers hate, it's admitting they made a mistake. Kidney will be the "right man for the job" because firing him would make it look like they were wrong to sign him in the first place.

    The mind still boggles that they gave him a contract extension before the World Cup after what happened last time.


  • #1418
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,709 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    skregs wrote: »
    If there's one thing blazers hate, it's admitting they made a mistake. Kidney will be the "right man for the job" because firing him would make it look like they were wrong to sign him in the first place.

    The mind still boggles that they gave him a contract extension before the World Cup after what happened last time.

    Couldn't believe it at the time either. History has a habit of repeating itself. It's like a carbon copy of the end of the EOS reign.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1419
    Almaviva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭Almaviva


    skregs wrote: »
    If there's one thing blazers hate, it's admitting they made a mistake. Kidney will be the "right man for the job" because firing him would make it look like they were wrong to sign him in the first place.

    IRFU was decisive and ruthess when the fired both Gatland and EOS. Both good and courageous decisions at the time. Both took the team forward, but moving on was the right decision at the time in both cases despite the good contributions each had made. Kidney has taken them backwards and now has a long string of poorer performances than EOS or Gatty. Without the possibility to claim it is with a developmental or transitionary team or squad.

    Why they are taking so long this time is hard to understand. Possibly given the two year contract to : 1) in the first year ensure good WC seeding, 2) the second team to build a forward looking team/squad with less concern on the results themselves. Still surprising he is being given such indulgence though - unless we are wrong...here's dreaming of an IRFU press conference for Wednesday....


  • #1420
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Maybe no-one wants to fire Kindey because he's such a nice guy! :D


  • #1421
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    Watching the highlights on Against The Head...Not pretty viewing.


  • Advertisement
  • #1422
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    Maybe no-one wants to fire Kindey because he's such a nice guy! :D

    In some ways he is and in some ways he isn't.


  • #1423
    Almaviva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭Almaviva


    durkadurka wrote: »
    In some ways he is and in some ways he isn't.

    But if fired he would take the positives from it. A few decisions went against him, and sometimes thats the way it goes in coaching. He would study the videos. He knows there are aspects of his coaching he needs to work on. And he would look forward to his next coaching appointment.


  • #1424
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,709 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Teferi wrote: »
    Watching the highlights on Against The Head...Not pretty viewing.

    Didn't see it tonight but sat through The Breakdown the other night. It was just a litany of mistakes from start to finish.
    When you see the overhead shots at scrum time you realise there was nothing Court could have done either. The LH was never square at any time, the push was coming before the ball was in and Hartley was up to his old standing up tricks.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1425
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Almaviva wrote: »
    But if fired he would take the positives from it. Sometime thats the way it goes in coaching. He would study the videos. He knows there are aspects of his coaching he needs to work on. And he would look forward to his next coaching appointment.
    It would be like kissing his sister.


  • #1426
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Hagz wrote: »
    Why? How the hell were Heaslip, Ferris, O'Brien, O'Callaghan, Healy supposed to take any blame for what happened. It's even strange to lay blame on Best and Ryan. The only person to blame is Court, and you can't even blame him. We don't have a prop who can play both sides of the scrum. Nothing can be done about that until one is found.

    We were losing scrums before Court came on. The dreadful conditions exacerbated the gap in scrummaging but it should serve as a massive wake up call. How would that pack with Court have matched up against the likes of Italy?

    Whatever about all that, I think we can agree we are banjaxed if Mike Ross gets injured.


  • #1427
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,261 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    We were losing scrums before Court came on.

    Ross got injured in the first scrum.


  • #1428
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Almaviva wrote: »
    skregs wrote: »
    If there's one thing blazers hate, it's admitting they made a mistake. Kidney will be the "right man for the job" because firing him would make it look like they were wrong to sign him in the first place.

    IRFU was decisive and ruthess when the fired both Gatland and EOS. Both good and courageous decisions at the time. Both took the team forward, but moving on was the right decision at the time in both cases despite the good contributions each had made. Kidney has taken them backwards and now has a long string of poorer performances than EOS or Gatty. Without the possibility to claim it is with a developmental or transitionary team or squad.

    Why they are taking so long this time is hard to understand. Possibly given the two year contract to : 1) in the first year ensure good WC seeding, 2) the second team to build a forward looking team/squad with less concern on the results themselves. Still surprising he is being given such indulgence though - unless we are wrong...here's dreaming of an IRFU press conference for Wednesday....
    Just as an aside, which would we rather, be like Wales, have 3 grand slams since 05 but no club rugby success, or, Ireland with 4 HC success in that same era. For some reason Welsh rugby cannot translate international success to club success, and we're the opposite, why?


  • #1429
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Just as an aside, which would we rather, be like Wales, have 3 grand slams since 05 but no club rugby success, or, Ireland with 4 HC success in that same era. For some reason Welsh rugby cannot translate international success to club success, and we're the opposite, why?
    Coaching.

    Sorry, not trying to be flippant, but sometimes it's that simple. You don't have to do much elimination of other factors before you come to that conclusion either.


  • #1430
    Annabella1
    Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭Annabella1


    rrpc wrote: »
    Coaching.

    Sorry, not trying to be flippant, but sometimes it's that simple. You don't have to do much elimination of other factors before you come to that conclusion either.

    Yep....and we had that coach!


  • #1431
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Annabella1 wrote: »
    Yep....and we had that coach!
    Is everyone actually forgetting that Wales dumped their own winning coach, no thanks to Alfie Thomas & Co, immediately after he led them to win a Slam, and while playing their best rugby in years (and also better than subsquent years)?
    Not everything is quite so black and white.


  • Advertisement
  • #1432
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Is everyone actually forgetting that Wales dumped their own winning coach, no thanks to Alfie Thomas & Co, immediately after he led them to win a Slam, and while playing their best rugby in years (and also better than subsquent years)?
    Not everything is quite so black and white.

    when we dumping ours?


  • #1433
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Is everyone actually forgetting that Wales dumped their own winning coach, no thanks to Alfie Thomas & Co, immediately after he led them to win a Slam, and while playing their best rugby in years (and also better than subsquent years)?
    Not everything is quite so black and white.


    Yes and look at Wales now; They also stuck with Gatland after dreadful 2010 and 2011 6 Nations and they are motoring now. What is your point excatly??


  • #1434
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    leftleg wrote: »
    Yes and look at Wales now; They also stuck with Gatland after dreadful 2010 and 2011 6 Nations and they are motoring now. What is your point excatly??
    My point?
    "Not everything is black and white" is my point, just as I posted ie. not every squad or situation can be a direct comparison of each other. I'll bet you that Stuart Lancaster gets the chop, for example, and replaced by someone who thinks they can use that backline. Agree with that?
    Dingo Deans stays on with the Aussies. Good thing or bad?

    Most of what we'll say to each other has all been said before (by all sides of this debate) so I'm not going to waste more hours on the previous.
    Take it handy.


  • #1435
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    JustinDee wrote: »
    My point?
    "Not everything is black and white" is my point, just as I posted ie. not every squad or situation can be a direct comparison of each other. I'll bet you that Stuart Lancaster gets the chop, for example, and replaced by someone who thinks they can use that backline. Agree with that?
    Dingo Deans stays on with the Aussies. Good thing or bad?

    Most of what we'll say to each other has all been said before (by all sides of this debate) so I'm not going to waste more hours on the previous.
    Take it handy.


    ok dokey, its grey so; take it handy


  • #1436
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Annabella1 wrote: »
    rrpc wrote: »
    Coaching.

    Sorry, not trying to be flippant, but sometimes it's that simple. You don't have to do much elimination of other factors before you come to that conclusion either.

    Yep....and we had that coach!
    Talking to a lot of Welsh fans, their primary concern is the national team, they are loyal to their regions, but would gladly sacrifice club success for international glory. I'm not sure if you asked a Leinster or Munster fan the question you'd get that same response


  • #1437
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    Lelantos wrote: »
    Talking to a lot of Welsh fans, their primary concern is the national team, they are loyal to their regions, but would gladly sacrifice club success for international glory. I'm not sure if you asked a Leinster or Munster fan the question you'd get that same response


    Thats rubbish; were all green true and true; look at these forums and the passion and anger posters have here for the shambles that was saturday evening; it was dire.

    The unfortunate truth is that there’s no other way of looking at this Six Nations than as a waste. What was achieved? A good finish in the table? No. A good series of wins? No. A big victory over a team who had our number? No. Giving starts to a new generation of players? No.

    I still love Ireland though and will scream for them through thick and thin.


  • #1438
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    leftleg wrote: »
    Lelantos wrote: »
    Talking to a lot of Welsh fans, their primary concern is the national team, they are loyal to their regions, but would gladly sacrifice club success for international glory. I'm not sure if you asked a Leinster or Munster fan the question you'd get that same response


    Thats rubbish; were all green true and true; look at these forums and the passion and anger posters have here for the shambles that was saturday evening; it was dire.

    The unfortunate truth is that there’s no other way of looking at this Six Nations than as a waste. What was achieved? A good finish in the table? No. A good series of wins? No. A big victory over a team who had our number? No. Giving starts to a new generation of players? No.

    I still love Ireland though and will scream for them through thick and thin.
    Sorry, but its not rubbish, I'm asking would Irish supporters rather have the Welsh model, international success over club success? I'm quite sure that many Munster & Leinster fans would prefer continued HC success to 6n championships


  • #1439
    Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 3,179 ✭✭✭Junior


    Why does it have to be an either or scenario, can we not try and have Club/Provincial success and International success ?


  • #1440
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    Why cant we have both?? HCup success should ideally lead to 6N successes; should it not? Oh yeah you need a good international coach for that, who is willing to give young talented players game time;

    This is what we have from the following http://dementedmole.com/2012/03/19/match-reaction-1-sins-of-omission/

    The same player has been selected every game at Nos. 15, 14, 12, 11, 10, 8, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 … Kidney has only started 19 players in five games. McFadden started at No13 for one game [because there was an illness in Keith Earls’ family, Earls having been initially named in the starting VX]; Reddan started at scrum-half for the two games after Conor Murray injured his knee; Peter O’Mahony started @ No7 for the game against Scotland when Sean O’Brien was in hospital with colitis; and Donnacha Ryan started @ No5 for two games when Paul O’Connell was ruled out for six weeks with a knee injury.

    There’s every possibility, given the rest of the selections, that if none of these illnesses or injuries had occurred, the same XV would have taken the field in all four games … despite four of them being played in 23 days.

    So in summary; yes it is rubbish


  • Advertisement
  • #1441
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    JustinDee wrote: »
    My point?
    "Not everything is black and white" is my point, just as I posted ie. not every squad or situation can be a direct comparison of each other. I'll bet you that Stuart Lancaster gets the chop, for example, and replaced by someone who thinks they can use that backline. Agree with that?
    Dingo Deans stays on with the Aussies. Good thing or bad?

    Most of what we'll say to each other has all been said before (by all sides of this debate) so I'm not going to waste more hours on the previous.
    Take it handy.
    It's never black and white, but it generally becomes stark when the grey areas are neglected.

    A good read here which may crystallise what most of us on here believe: http://whiffofcordite.blogspot.com/2012/03/some-good-mostly-bad-time-for-new-broom.html


Advertisement