What is The Free World Charter?

Just be a little slower to dismiss... You might miss something important here - and I invented cynicism BTW!

WeeBushy wrote: »

I sincerely doubt that.

Why?

WeeBushy wrote: »

What tripe.

'Tripe'; compared to what?

johngalway wrote: »

Words fail me to express the deep stupidity of that idea.

'Stupid'; compared to what?

Love nor Money wrote: »

And, with hope in my heart I checked the venus project website, which is a set of nice slogans and pictures of funny buildings like out of a 70s sci-fi-futurist-otherplanet sort of film. Being too dosed up to reach the crackpipe doesn't seem so bad any more...

The Venus Project website is awful, but their underlying ideas are sound. They just don't portray them very well, IMHO.

WeeBushy wrote: »

1. He says that machines will run the planet. Who will make and service this machines? Who will do the jobs that machines can't? I sure as hell won't - I'll be sitting in my garden consuming as much of everything as I possibly can because its free. As will the vast majority of people.

Why would you constantly consume something that is plentiful anyway? Your definition of 'free' is not having to spend money for something. That definition is meaningless when there is no money at all.

WeeBushy wrote: »

2. Machines have freed us from hard labour. Wrong.

Wrong. How can you possibly deny this??

WeeBushy wrote: »

3. He says that our resources are plentiful for all mankind. Wrong.

Wrong. If people change their world-view from individualism and consider themselves part of a wider community, we can do anything. And this is not airy-fairy sh*t (which I've no time for); this is survival of the species. Eventually no-one will have a choice about having a money-free society, but by then we will have inflicted mass genocide on each other. Doing this before that happens makes sense.

WeeBushy wrote: »

4. No money will just lead to massive waste of our resources.

See above..

WeeBushy wrote: »

5. Why would anyone bother their arse doing anything when there is not incentive to do so.

So, why do YOU do anything you don't get paid for?

WeeBushy wrote: »

Its just utter rubbish.

'Rubbish'; compared to what?

SupaNova wrote: »

The Zeitgeist Movement is a twist on Socialism with a focus on the environment, technology(machines doing everything) and sustainability. They talk very little on how to get to this utopia. Maybe because it would actually take huge loss of life and human sacrifice to get there. And all on the premise that a computer(programmed by a human) can solve the problem of efficient resource allocation in a society without money. History shows that Socialism lead to mass starvation.

Please see my point above, we can do this the hard way or the easy way, and luckily now we do have a choice. The hard way, as you say, means blowing each other to pieces first. Nice.


Thank you all for your replies and keeping it real!

Human Condition? What on Earth does THAT mean?

Human Condition-ing however, is very real and accounts for the way we react to almost everything that happens to us. For instance, we ask our children what they want to be when they grow up. Fair enough, but you have now just 'told' that child that they must be SOMETHING when they grow up! They must advance themselves and succeed on their own. This implies that they are in competition with every other kid. and so the kid grows up to be a successful tycoon; then some clown comes along and says "now we're going to do away with ALL money..." How do you think that person will react?

This is learned individualism through conditioning, and it has happened to all of us. This is just one example....

These concepts are NOT easy to take on board. It takes time. It will gnaw away at you however............


nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom.....

Love nor Money wrote: »

Look, it's all very nice to dream of this utopian ideal. However the id will never be defeated. That's why none of this can work.

Even if you think it won't work, will you sign it?

Love nor Money wrote: »

No. Not because it won't work. Rather, because it cannot work. And also because - since it requires the suppression of natural human instincts - even striving towards making it work would give rise to horrendous results: it would require massive government-backed coercion based on broad principles. Broad principles give rise to hard cases (the devil is always in the detail) so these principles have to interpreted by someone: presumably an elite. So we end up with the rule of man rather than the rule of law. Now we have that to a certain extent at present: but in comparison with a utopia-creating government, the need for coercion is not massive.

Human instinct is to survive and procreate. Today, we confuse survival with earning money and competing against each other. Humans are a social species by nature, that's why most people live in cities. The fact that we are competing against each other is in fact AGAINST our nature.

Anyway, don't rule it out. If this initiative was adopted, everyone would gain. It's difficult to see this in the current world, I admit.

Thanks to all respondents. Of course something as big and radical as this should stand up to scrutiny and be debated. We wouldn't be human if we didn't question things. I myself was not entirely sold on these ideas when I heard them first. But those ideas fermented over time, and I resolved to become a part of it and give my own interpretation of the concepts, which is what the website is.

Do any of you honestly think that Fine Gael and Labour are going to sort your problems? I know they want to, but look where they're coming from and what they're up against!

Do you honestly believe that the Irish economy is going to come back around this time? That we are all going to have jobs?

Look at what is happening in North Africa. These are not backward countries just going ballistic for sport; these are real, smart intelligent people who have just had enough of the system they live in. They have mass unemployment. They have no money. In Ireland, we quietly affirm to ourselves that "it's terrible, but it'll never happen here..."

It WILL happen here. And sooner than you might think.

It's 'game over' for the monetary system. Capitalism has failed, socialism and communism have failed. There are no more jobs. (Not nearly enough for everyone anyway) We need to make provisions for an alternative society before things start get really sour.

If no-one is working, there is NO economy. Fact.

I want people to sign The Free World Charter, because I, and many thousands of others in similar movements believe it will work. It costs you nothing to sign, and commits you to nothing. What's the worst that could happen?

SupaNova wrote: »

For the love of god you have fallen in love with a complete fairytale. One of the first things they do when presenting the story is say what would we do if started all over again how would we go about planning a society and and economy. Totally bypassing the fact we have to get to this dreamland from the mess we have at the moment.

One of the first things they say we would do is take a complete stock take of all the earths resources. It could take hundreds of years of exploration and mining just to do this stock take.

Now i agree they are problems with the current monetary system. Creating money out of thin air as debt and giving it to governments does nothing to promote fiscal responsibility.

The transition to such a society would be either peacefully through mass support of the program and incredible amounts of complex organisation (as you say); or it'll ultimately be on the wrong end of WW3!

You choose; support now, take a chance on it (that costs you nothing) and opt for a peaceful transition, or sleepwalk your kids into an inevitable future of death and destruction.

If people sign the Charter and I'm right, everyone wins.
If people sign the Charter and I'm wrong, everyone wins.

SupaNova wrote: »

Why do you think this is whats going to happen?

Did you read through the site? It's very simple, if the rich get richer, the poor must get poorer, right? This is mathematics. Can you imagine the rich getting poorer and the poor getting richer? No. That won't happen because the rich are the ones making the rules of the game, right? So:

We continue to support the monetary system >
The rich get richer, the poor get poorer >
Inequality widens creating increasing tension > (Libya, Eqypt)
Poor people eventually either starve or revolt >
Revolutions cause widespread chaos, looting, violence and civil war >
Death and destruction.

Also, on another thread:
We continue to support the monetary system >
The rich get richer, poor get poorer >
Poorer people can't afford to buy quality goods >
Promotes manufacture and production of inferior goods >
Creates pollution and wastes natural resources >
Poisons our environment & plunders limited resources >
Poisoned environment causes mutation and disease, dwindling resources call for stricter rules and rationing of those resources >
Disease, starvation and possible revolution result >
Death and destruction.

These are all 'quasi-mathematically' provable certainties, the only unknown is time.