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Movement in newly fitted acrylic bath. Should I be worried?

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  • 17-07-2013 1:25pm
    #1
    Shint0
    Registered Users Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭


    I recently got my bathroom redone as part of a house renovation, all re-tiled and new sanitary ware etc. I bought sanitary ware in the same shop and most items were fairly good quality. When it came to choosing the bath, the sales assistant showed me a deep acrylic bath in the showroom and I opted for this as he assured me it was a good one of good quality, scratch resistant etc.

    After all the old tiles, bath, sink, toilet etc were removed the plumber said the existing floor underneath was in fairly bad condition, that it was rotten as the house is over 30 years old. So he asked the carpenter to put down a whole new floor using plywood. The plumber then installed the bath and the tiler later tiled around it and tiled a bath panel. The bath runs wall to wall with just the side panel tiled.

    Using the bath the first few times to have a shower, I noticed a lot of movement and creaking sounds in the base of the bath. I googled acrylic baths and discovered there can sometimes be creaking sounds. Within days of use, a gap had started to appear under the bath sealant, it started to look a bit shabby and started to get that slight orange colour along the edge of the sealant. This is in the section where the shower is which gets the most use. There are two of us in the house using the shower.

    I showed it to the tiler when he came back but he said it was nothing to worry about. I told the plumber that there seems to be a lot of movement in the bath. I wondered if this was causing the bath sealant to rise up and I was worried if it wasn't fitted properly would the bath develop cracks an leaks as I had just reskimmed the kitchen ceiling directly below. Told him I had read on the internet these kind of baths require a strong support base and have seen it mentioned that the base needs to be cemented. He said it is a strong bath, he fixed it to the wall so it should be fine. Except it appears to now be getting worse just after a few weeks, more and more movement when you step into the bath. The bath sealant in the corner at the end where the shower is has now separated and started to curl up and is looking very shabby. I showed to the tiler again yesterday anr he said it's fine and that he put some type of water proof barrier behind the bath seal. Somebody in a tile shop mentioned that colour a long the edge of the bath sealant might be the colour from the back of the tile coming through when the water gets in under the bath seal but if it's supposed to be water sealed properly according to the tiler, how is this possible. The plumber will be back again in a few days but no doubt will try to reassure me again that it's fine as it could entail a lot of work to fix if it had not been installed properly.

    Are there any guidelines on how these type of baths are supposed to be installed and how I should approach the plumber? Apologies for the long post but it's starting to become frustrating at this stage and I would like to get it resolved before the plumber finishes work on the house. Perhaps he is not at fault at all but I would still appreciate some thoughts on the whole thing.


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    #2
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    take a pict. stand in the bath and take another of the moving area.


    baths will move a small bit. they do need a decent base but if your floor is good iv never had a problem. a dont see how a concrete base is feasible if its upstairs.

    so gis a few picts at it can tell alot


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    #3
    corkplumber
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 259 ✭✭corkplumber


    unless the fitter built a base around the bath. eventually that bath will sink.

    +1 about picture . need to see seals meeting tiles standing in bath and when out of bath. this is a common problem. known to the insurance companies as a MAINTAINCE ISSUE, they refuse to pay for resulting water damage in these instances.


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    #4
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    corkplumber wrote: »
    unless the fitter built a base around the bath. eventually that bath will sink.

    +1 about picture . need to see seals meeting tiles standing in bath and when out of bath. this is a common problem. known to the insurance companies as a MAINTAINCE ISSUE, they refuse to pay for resulting water damage in these instances.

    what sort of a base would you fit?


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    #5
    corkplumber
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 259 ✭✭corkplumber


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    what sort of a base would you fit?
    first of all I don't recommend PLASTIC baths.

    However if client supplies one . I will fit a batton around the wall . make bath up and sit in position and build frame for bath panel also supporting the weight on the outside. (battons fitted on to the moisture slab). however plumbers specialising in bathrooms (off yester year) use to fill the bath with water. before the tiler commenced. to allow the weight settle the bath before a tile seal.


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    #6
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    hard to avoid plastic baths. id always use classi seal on the basis that you wont stop movement


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    #7
    Fiery mutant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    Tiled around many acrylic baths in my day. The tiler should have filled the bath to the top with water before commencing with the tiling to simulate the extra weight that will result in movement. The bath seal also needs to be attached to the bath, and not the wall or tiles. That way, when your are in the bath, the bath seal moves with your bath, keeping the seal.

    Edit: cork plumber just mentioned it.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



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    #8
    corkplumber
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 259 ✭✭corkplumber


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    hard to avoid plastic baths. id always use classi seal on the basis that you wont stop movement

    classi seals are good. still need a base built for the plastic baths.

    majority of problems is no supports and legs not tightened correctly.


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    #9
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    corkplumber wrote: »
    classi seals are good. still need a base built for the plastic baths.

    majority of problems is no supports and legs not tightened correctly.

    mm. i try to screw down the legs so theres abit of tension in them to push to the wall.

    alot of the problem is then the half round is put down some are only relying on the flexy bit on the edge to seal it. same with showers. works for a time but eventually goes loose. there ment to be pumped with solocone or tech7 but rarely is


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    #10
    corkplumber
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 259 ✭✭corkplumber


    you will still have problems with seals & plastic baths, if no base is fitted. creates on unlevel bath that finally finds its way under the seal usually at the shower door.

    baths made and fitted as manufacturers instruction . base fitted. tech 7 or silicone. seal made for tiling (classi seal) .bath will not give any problems. unless the joices sink on sub floors or bath cracks.

    proper seal also recommended under taps with the washer.


  • Options
    #11
    Shint0
    Registered Users Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭Shint0


    OP here.
    Thanks for the replies. When I say movement I can feel it moving under my feet at the bottom of the bath when standing in it. Initially it seemed to be more concentrated in one place but can feel it spreading more if that makes sense. There is also some flexing on base at the other end without the shower but the area which is getting worse is where we stand and move around under the shower. The bath sealant has not moved and is no gap on the other end with no shower presumably because that area is not being used as such so no pressure being exerted on it.

    I'm not sure what I can show in photos except for where the sealant has started to rise up but I will try post some later with someone standing in and out of the bath. Maybe it will show the gap is wider between sealant and path, if that's what you mean when someone is standing in it. I don't think the tiler filled it up with water when tiling but not 100% sure on that. I presume he would have mentioned it if he did to indicate he knew how those type of baths should be tiled around. The plumber tried to suggest more that he had fitted the bath to the wall properly but when I mentioned about proper support base underneath it didn't suggest he did anything like that.. So it can be hard to know who might be more responsible for trying to resolve.
    Both plumber and tiler are friends, one recommended the other but work independently.

    I will try post some photos later but what I'm really trying to get at is

    a) is it to do with the type of bath itself i.e. it's known that there's some flexibilty in those type of baths so learn to live with it OR

    b) as this is a known feature they must be installed and supported properly to secure it as tightly as possible to minimise as much movement as possible to prevent cracks, leaks, problems with bath sealant etc.


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    #12
    corkplumber
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 259 ✭✭corkplumber


    probably no middle leg fitted under the center of bath.

    If I have heavy customers. I usually make 3 supports under the bath. they do crack and break (happens a lot)


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    #13
    Shint0
    Registered Users Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭Shint0


    corkplumber wrote: »
    probably no middle leg fitted under the center of bath.

    If I have heavy customers. I usually make 3 supports under the bath. they do crack and break (happens a lot)

    Should that come with the bath, Corkplumber, or should the plumber fit something themselves as an extra leg/support? Neither of us are heavy, the exact opposite so there would have been no extra weight or pressure exerted on it more than normal.


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    #14
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    Shint0 wrote: »
    OP here.
    Thanks for the replies. When I say movement I can feel it moving under my feet at the bottom of the bath when standing in it. Initially it seemed to be more concentrated in one place but can feel it spreading more if that makes sense. There is also some flexing on base at the other end without the shower but the area which is getting worse is where we stand and move around under the shower. The bath sealant has not moved and is no gap on the other end with no shower presumably because that area is not being used as such so no pressure being exerted on it.

    I'm not sure what I can show in photos except for where the sealant has started to rise up but I will try post some later with someone standing in and out of the bath. Maybe it will show the gap is wider between sealant and path, if that's what you mean when someone is standing in it. I don't think the tiler filled it up with water when tiling but not 100% sure on that. I presume he would have mentioned it if he did to indicate he knew how those type of baths should be tiled around. The plumber tried to suggest more that he had fitted the bath to the wall properly but when I mentioned about proper support base underneath it didn't suggest he did anything like that.. So it can be hard to know who might be more responsible for trying to resolve.
    Both plumber and tiler are friends, one recommended the other but work independently.

    I will try post some photos later but what I'm really trying to get at is

    a) is it to do with the type of bath itself i.e. it's known that there's some flexibilty in those type of baths so learn to live with it OR

    b) as this is a known feature they must be installed and supported properly to secure it as tightly as possible to minimise as much movement as possible to prevent cracks, leaks, problems with bath sealant etc.

    You have NO CHIOCE but remove side panel ( I know its tiled ) and check supports and fix or tighten them. Sorry about the panel, but its like trying to fix your car without opening the bonnet I'm afraid.
    I've no problem with plastic baths if supported properly. Panel has to come off first .


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    #15
    Shint0
    Registered Users Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭Shint0


    Thanks Scudo.
    I know the plumber will probably say it's fine but should I insist? What exactly should I be asking him about how it was fitted and if panel is removed what should I be checking for while he is also looking at it? Am I right in saying that if properly installed and secured there would not be this type of movement and creaking, that it eliminates it completely?

    Also who would be responsible for any breakage, replacement and refitting of tiles on panel if this is necessary?


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    #16
    shane0007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭shane0007


    The other consideration is that you said the floor was rotten & ply was put over it. Ply over a rotten floor will sag also. Was the floor strengthened before the ply was set in place?


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    #17
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    shane0007 wrote: »
    The other consideration is that you said the floor was rotten & ply was put over it. Ply over a rotten floor will sag also. Was the floor strengthened before the ply was set in place?
    Wobbly legs/supports at the four corners and under the center of the bath + the floor condition as listed by Shane.
    See what you can.
    Best of luck.


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    #18
    Shint0
    Registered Users Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭Shint0


    Thanks Scudo. To Shane, yes the carpenter has said a few times, even without discussing the bath issue with him, that he did something with the joists first. He is fairly good and fairly experienced and will let you know what's what and what needs to be done. I would trust him anyway and I know the floor felt very solid and very level after he did it and before the bath went in but plumber seems to be saying he fixed bath securely to the wall. If it was a case that all acrylic baths have some flexing even if secured properly then I would have to live with that. If it only arises if not properly supported then that's the crux of my issue.


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