Single working mum struggling!!

Riverireland · 07-07-2015 12:33pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

But that's discrimination against people who don't have children. Nobody bar you cares that you have kids. I don't, your fellow workers don't and your company definitely doesn't. You are hired to do a job under the company hours and if you can't do that job then either get another job or stay at home with your kids. For years women have shouted for equal pay and equal rights which I agree with 100 percent but you have to do equal work and having a child does not remove you of that responsibility.
I work in an office where a few of the women are constantly giving out that the boss should be more "understanding" of women with kids and they look for half days, fob the work off to other people and pull the typical woman card of crying or getting upset if put under any pressure. Frankly this isn't Jerry a Springer park your home life at the door and get on with the job. And please don't patronise me and say I obviously don't have kids. No I don't but that's irrelevant I have a lot of of other pressures in my life but I know my workplace hired me for a reason and I have to just get on with it. If a man got upset and wanted flexibility to collect kids he wouldn't get half the sympathy a woman gets. Double standards...

Thing is if nobody has children who will pay all the pensions when we get old? Working parents need to be supported, single or not.

Tiddlypeeps · 07-07-2015 12:34pm

mushypeas12 wrote: »

Just google it. An article from the irish examiner should come up which fairly nails my arguement. More men also sit HL Maths so your school is quite unusual in that respect.

When it comes to problem solving in the workplace give me men any day, women if anything seem to compound the problem from my experience.

"Just Google it", the war cry of the uninformed.

Anyway I did Google it, and the only Irish Examiner article I found was from 2012 which states that more women than men do indeed sit the higher level maths paper in the leaving cert.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/higher-level-divide-between-genders-207599.html

It does however indicate a growing number of men taking the paper, so perhaps you have a more recent source?

mushypeas12 · 07-07-2015 1:39pm

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

"Just Google it", the war cry of the uninformed.

Anyway I did Google it, and the only Irish Examiner article I found was from 2012 which states that more women than men do indeed sit the higher level maths paper in the leaving cert.

It does however indicate a growing number of men taking the paper, so perhaps you have a more recent source?

The article is from august 2014.

Pawwed Rig · 07-07-2015 3:01pm

It used to be the case that men were performing better than girls and then myth developed that there was a biological reason which was of course nonsense. However some still believe it is true and even government departments have policies in place to eliminate mathematical ability as a performance indicator due to the belief that it favours men.

Tiddlypeeps · 07-07-2015 3:34pm

mushypeas12 wrote: »

The article is from august 2014.

No it's not

It says Friday, September 14, 2012 right at the top.

Also irrelevant, do you have anything to back up your claims or are you sticking with the "I'm right but don't need to back it up" stance.

mushypeas12 · 07-07-2015 4:40pm

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

No it's not

It says Friday, September 14, 2012 right at the top.

Also irrelevant, do you have anything to back up your claims or are you sticking with the "I'm right but don't need to back it up" stance.

OMG, the one I'm referring to is from august 2014 right after the results came out.

ForstalDave · 07-07-2015 4:44pm

mushypeas12 wrote: »

OMG, the one I'm referring to is from august 2014 right after the results came out.

Link please if you know the date and the subject should take you a few secs to find it to back up your argument

spurious · 07-07-2015 4:46pm

People can play all they like to justify any point of view with the SEC statistics - all available from: here

Lux23 · 07-07-2015 4:51pm

ronjo wrote: »

I am sure he is providing for that too and it just seems you are trying ot pick a fight.

I am not trying to pick a fight, I am just simply trying to highlight the lack of understanding in his statement. He says he is out working to provide a future for his children. Fantastic, but the OP is worried about about missing out on her child growing up. Every parent has to balance the two and I think Jimmycrackcorn's comment about having no sympathy to the OP was unfair.

No-one lies on their deathbed and says "I wish, I worked more and spent less time with my kids".

Tiddlypeeps · 07-07-2015 4:52pm

mushypeas12 wrote: »

OMG, the one I'm referring to is from august 2014 right after the results came out.

LOL. Care to actually post it so...

Lux23 · 07-07-2015 4:53pm

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

LOL. Care to actually post it so...

In the time Mushy has spent arguing the existence of this article, he could have found it himself and posted it. Now who is illogical!

mushypeas12 · 07-07-2015 5:14pm

Lux23 wrote: »

In the time Mushy has spent arguing the existence of this article, he could have found it himself and posted it. Now who is illogical!

Boards won't let me post links as I'm a new user! Would have thought that much was obvious!

Mrs OBumble · 07-07-2015 9:09pm

mushypeas12 wrote: »

Boards won't let me post links as I'm a new user! Would have thought that much was obvious!

PM a link to me and I'll add it to your post.

Lux23 · 08-07-2015 2:30pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

PM a link to me and I'll add it to your post.

Or post the headline and we can google it ourselves. Look, two women who are capable of solving problems without a big, intelligent man to help us.

Mrs OBumble · 08-07-2015 2:43pm

Here's the link from mushypeas: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/female-students-outperform-males-in-majority-of-leaving-cert-subjects-280681.html

ForstalDave · 08-07-2015 4:32pm

mushypeas12 wrote: »

Ye have made this simple task into a huge problem, exactly what I'm talking about.

The first line of that article cannot be clearer. The only jobs women are good at are the likes of teaching and nursing. No pressure and in general women are a lot kinder and caring than men. Also, they are public sector jobs so loads of time off for pregnancy, child minding, etc. Women should stick to these jobs. The high responsibility, pressurised jobs should be left to the men.

That is one hell of a opinion to get from "Female students continue to outperform males in the majority of Leaving Certificate subjects — but are still behind them in maths."

And considering that it is only counting leaving and not collage students as well as the fact maths is not used for the majority of jobs i see no sense in the argument your argument

Mrs OBumble · 08-07-2015 5:49pm

mushypeas12 wrote: »

The only jobs women are good at are the likes of teaching and nursing. No pressure... .

If you ever end up in Intensive Care, or even just an emergency department with serious injuries, you might get some surprises!

LegacyUser · 09-07-2015 2:26pm

Some fairly massive and strange leaps in logic there, mushypeas12.

Here's another side to the theory of "only employing women" that you're working on. I'm an engineer (female, posted earlier as SF12). I had an interview process a few months ago with an engineering company, who are very picky about their staff. I had reservations about them and aired them quite early in the process to the company, but they still called me back for interview again. I made my personal circumstances clear to them (I have a small child) and said I'd like a bit of flexibility in the working hours - and by that, I wanted to know could I start 30 mins earlier and finish 30 mins earlier. They were very reluctant to do this, although they freely admitted that they allowed varied hours at times for some people, like if it was summer and people wanted to leave early to get a round of golf in in the evening every week, or for men starting late because they dropped kids to childcare everyday, or for people who maybe were into fitness and wanted to start earlier/later or maybe leave a bit earlier. But they had a problem with me doing it on a daily basis, even though I made it absolutely clear that I was flexible in my approach, I would do the necessary hours and more, and that I would always be where I had to be, when needed (client meetings etc). I had several discussions with them around this (this was pretty much the only sticking point), as I didn't want to end up going through a big interview process then turning them down, because they wouldn't allow a bit of flexibility in their hours.....

They still offered me the job. Because of my background, and because my experience would add hugely to their staff backgrounds, to the jobs they could bid for (and possibly win), and any ensuing business that might arise out of that. And because it was clear that I'm vary capable and a good worker and would be an asset to them.

I turned them down. They were actually very taken aback and very keen to know was that my last word and would I reconsider.

I've got another job since then. So the only losers in this whole thing are that company.From your point of view, you may find yourself shooting yourself massively in the foot with some of your theories and in fact, doing yourself and your future business a total disservice.

Also, if the day ever comes that you have a daughter and she tells you she wants to be an engineer, or an accountant, or a physicist or a doctor - or any of those roles that require maths and are "high pressurised and responsible"...what's your response going to be? "Go away like a good little girl and do something like teaching, you're not able for the difficult stuff?" (not denigrading teachers here, it's a tough job that I wouldn't be volunteering for myself!)

To be honest, the best I can say to you is that time and experience will teach you more than anything we can say here to you. And the biggest lesson of all will come if you ever have children. It will be the most eye-opening, unbelievable experience of your entire life, and both men and women will tell you that - and you will gain a whole new level of understanding around conversations like this. Just do yourself a favour and be open to these experiences. Some fairly massive and strange leaps in logic there, mushypeas12.

Here's another side to the theory of "only employing women" that you're working on. I'm an engineer (female, posted earlier as SF12). I had an interview process a few months ago with an engineering company, who are very picky about their staff. I had reservations about them and aired them quite early in the process to the company, but they still called me back for interview again. I made my personal circumstances clear to them (I have a small child) and said I'd like a bit of flexibility in the working hours - and by that, I wanted to know could I start 30 mins earlier and finish 30 mins earlier. They were very reluctant to do this, although they freely admitted that they allowed varied hours at times for some people, like if it was summer and people wanted to leave early to get a round of golf in in the evening every week, or for men starting late because they dropped kids to childcare everyday, or for people who maybe were into fitness and wanted to start earlier/later or maybe leave a bit earlier. But they had a problem with me doing it on a daily basis, even though I made it absolutely clear that I was flexible in my approach, I would do the necessary hours and more, and that I would always be where I had to be, when needed (client meetings etc). I had several discussions with them around this (this was pretty much the only sticking point), as I didn't want to end up going through a big interview process then turning them down, because they wouldn't allow a bit of flexibility in their hours.....

They still offered me the job. Because of my background, and because my experience would add hugely to their staff backgrounds, to the jobs they could bid for (and possibly win), and any ensuing business that might arise out of that. And because it was clear that I'm vary capable and a good worker and would be an asset to them.

I turned them down. They were actually very taken aback and very keen to know was that my last word and would I reconsider.

I've got another job since then. So the only losers in this whole thing are that company.From your point of view, you may find yourself shooting yourself massively in the foot with some of your theories and in fact, doing yourself and your future business a total disservice.

Also, if the day ever comes that you have a daughter and she tells you she wants to be an engineer, or an accountant, or a physicist or a doctor - or any of those roles that require maths and are "high pressurised and responsible"...what's your response going to be? "Go away like a good little girl and do something like teaching, you're not able for the difficult stuff?" (not denigrading teachers here, it's a tough job that I wouldn't be volunteering for myself!)

To be honest, the best I can say to you is that time and experience will teach you more than anything we can say here to you. And the biggest lesson of all will come if you ever have children. It will be the most eye-opening, unbelievable experience of your entire life, and both men and women will tell you that - and you will gain a whole new level of understanding around conversations like this. Just do yourself a favour and be open to these experiences.

Lux23 · 09-07-2015 3:44pm

mushypeas12 wrote: »

Ye have made this simple task into a huge problem, exactly what I'm talking about.

The first line of that article cannot be clearer. The only jobs women are good at are the likes of teaching and nursing. No pressure and in general women are a lot kinder and caring than men. Also, they are public sector jobs so loads of time off for pregnancy, child minding, etc. Women should stick to these jobs. The high responsibility, pressurised jobs should be left to the men.

Have you got a job Mushy? Because I am beginning to think you have no experience of what you're talking about.

Female students continue to outperform males in the majority of Leaving Certificate subjects — but are still behind them in maths.

Also, how this line mean women are only good at nursing and teaching? (Both highly pressured jobs by the way)

Lux23 · 09-07-2015 4:34pm

mushypeas12 wrote: »

HAHAHA! Ya very pressurised, I don't know how they're able to stick it!

As opposed to someone who sits in an office all day playing on excel or on an accountancy program?

Wanderer2010 · 09-07-2015 4:45pm

@Mushypeas, I really dont know where you are getting your generalizations on the abilities of men and women from but I can tell you right now that being a man does NOT automatically mean being a reliable and efficient problem solver. Im a man and have had lots of jobs up to this point in my life and I have seen the best and worst of both sexes in the workplace. I have seen countless men who are lazy and who would fake sick days every week after a heavy weekend, countless men who would crumble under the slightest of pressure and even more of them who couldnt solve a problem if their lives depended on it.

Conversely, I have seen many women make great suggestions on improvements to process flow, highly skilled women making a great difference to their department, women who wouldnt wilt under severe pressure etc etc. Im no fan of women who use kids as an excuse for easier working conditions but for you to say that men are better options to hire is simply wrong and it wont be long until you meet one of the lazy, precious and dramatic men that fill workplaces the world over.

Nody · 09-07-2015 6:55pm

//MOD

mushypeas12 has taken an extended break from W&J; lets return to the topic at hand.

//MOD

TheDoc · 14-07-2015 4:56pm

endacl wrote: »

You see, the thing is, what you're whinging about would benefit everybody. Working dads should also have an expectation of a healthy work/life balance, and time to spend with their young children.

You're kinda missing the essential point of 'equality'.

This has struck me most from reading the thread. I have an 11 month old daughter. My last job had work from home options, and when it was me and the misses it was great to just work from home, listen to music, play games on the side etc.

My current job has limited work from home options, and its really for emergencies and frowned upon. But since I've done it a few times since our daughter arrived, it's great. Spend some more time playing and just watching her tbh, and being that more involved. And also being able to help out my GF who herself has had to just put a hold to any working prospects as when we ran the numbers childcare is something we couldnt afford in the current hectic renting market.

What struck me was how my baby was due to be born(our first) after about 8 months into my new job. All going well, and I still have the sort of modern thing of working from home, from my last job, that its not big deal, thats its an understandably flexible part for both employer and employee. so I went to my boss for a chat expecting him to have no problem agreeing to a number of options I wanted to discuss. One was working from home for two weeks, one was working from home a few days a week. The point being to be at home to help my GF with our newborn and ensure my GF had support.

To my surprise I got looked at like I just asked for a blowjob. I'd to take a week of my holiday allowance, and I couldn't take two weeks as there wasn't "sufficent cover". I really enjoy my current job, the staff, management, the lot. But its a little sour gripe I hold against them, that they are an old fashioned company refusing to move into the modern things that benefit working parents.

Being a parent now has really opened my eyes to some **** in the workplace. For one looking forward to the Government introducing paternity leave for parents (actually should say my company gave me two paternity days) as a statutory thing. I'm also really taking an interest in childcare costs etc., as its a clear barrier for our household to have two incomes. My GF doesn't meet criteria for social welfare due to my income, which is fair enough but I don't need to play poormouth to anyone here renting in Dublin, they know the score.

I don't expect someone to mind my child for free, I'm in a selfish way delighted my Gf made the choice(and she made the choice) to be a stay at home mam and raise our daughter, but the guilt I have is that she is eager to work, and can't for a large number of years. I guess my fear is by the time she goes to look for work(and who knows if a second kid comes along) she might be a career stay at home mother, which I don't think she wants,and I dont think is fair.

€27m for a postcode system that is not even mandatory, but can't subsidize or look into providing tax incentives for working couples who require childcare.

Single working mum struggling!!

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