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Septic Party Seeks the Gay Vote

  • 03-03-2012 6:05pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    At the Fianna Fail ard fheis these crooks have voted to now support Gay Marriage and Adoption after blocking both for years! crooks turncoats and traitors is all the party consists of now!

    They will bend over and do whatever it takes now to get a bit of support after they brought the country to its knees!


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Comments

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Ha, see there ard fheis turn out. They expected 3000 and there were nothing but a handful sitting about. It 'could be possible' that FF may follow the PDs out the door.


  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Aurongroove


    worlds funniest thread title.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    The auld Fianna Fail party line up, I think Brian Cowan just bearly got the head in in the bottom left corner.

    clowns.jpg?t=20120225115730


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,538 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Senator Averil Power is also introducing a bill to get rid of the employment equality exemption for lgb people in schools/hospitals etc - she's leaving out the T so yes they want equality for some but not others

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Senator Averil Power is also introducing a bill to get rid of the employment equality exemption for lgb people in schools/hospitals etc - she's leaving out the T so yes they want equality for some but not others

    Have you read the proposed heads? Its a bill to remove the exemption at hiring time but leave it in place for dismissals etc and was initially drafted to cover education only! Basketcase of a bill by a basketcase party.

    The proper way to do it is to remove the exemption clause and that's it. It'll prevent ANY of the equality provisions being broken, end of. Tiny change to the existing bill.


    FF have realised that some of their old, rural voters are going to follow wherever O'Cuiv ends up shortly and they also (somehow) aren't stupid enough to not notice that they have zero TDs in Dublin, Meath, North Kildare and Wicklow = the entire commuter belt, about a third of the country population wise, and the engine of what's left of our economy. So they're willing to cut adrift a few old core supporters in the hope of recovering what they once had in the East.

    Their TD in Louth wouldn't have got elected if he wasn't Ceann Comhairle and their TD in Kildare South wouldn't have got elected if FG or Labour ran a second candidate - so the FF-free belt should be a lot bigger.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    she's leaving out the T so yes they want equality for some but not others

    I noticed that alright, its painfully obviously intentional when you read the text, almost as though it was there in the original draft and someone came along and crossed out any reference. Kinda defeats the purpose really, actually even just the fact that it's an amendment rather than a removal does that, there are a lot more people affected by that ugly bit of legislation than just LGBs, we're just more vocal on it, doubt she even understood what she was proposing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    "Fianna Fáil has always supported gay marriage" - Fianna Fáil spokesperson.

    DOUBLETHINK.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,538 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MYOB wrote: »
    Have you read the proposed heads? Its a bill to remove the exemption at hiring time but leave it in place for dismissals etc
    really? that's not my reading of it

    www.cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2012/02/EMPLOYMENT-EQUALITY-AMENDMENT-BILL-2012.docx

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Seriously? Whatever about their past wrongs, they come out and make a loud and positive declaration in support of LGB rights and all people can do is b1tch and moan?

    How about saying they have a long long long way to go in reforming their policies, methods and image but this is a positive step and is to be welcomed?

    Not everybody in FF was a crony who ruined politics. There is a new generation off FF politicians emerging and I'd rather spend my time applauding good work that they do (while criticising the bad) then harping on about past wrongs.

    FF were always going to move in this direction as the country did. I am just surprised that they did it so soon and is hopefully a sign that the younger more progressive wing of the party is coming to the fore.

    That makes it 3 of the 4 largest parties more or less in favour of marriage equality which is amazing.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    floggg wrote: »
    How about saying they have a long long long way to go in reforming their policies, methods and image but this is a positive step and is to be welcomed?

    I honestly think they have along way to go before ever being re-eleccted. Of course, that's if the Irish don't suffer from short term memory loss in the mean time. So I think, they'll have more than enough time to get it right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    floggg wrote: »
    Seriously? Whatever about their past wrongs, they come out and make a loud and positive declaration in support of LGB rights and all people can do is b1tch and moan?

    How about saying they have a long long long way to go in reforming their policies, methods and image but this is a positive step and is to be welcomed?

    Not everybody in FF was a crony who ruined politics. There is a new generation off FF politicians emerging and I'd rather spend my time applauding good work that they do (while criticising the bad) then harping on about past wrongs.

    FF were always going to move in this direction as the country did. I am just surprised that they did it so soon and is hopefully a sign that the younger more progressive wing of the party is coming to the fore.

    That makes it 3 of the 4 largest parties more or less in favour of marriage equality which is amazing.

    Well done Fianna Fáil for jumping on the bandwagon. Yes it's good but they won't be getting my vote EVER. Never forget. Never forgive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    floggg wrote: »
    Seriously? Whatever about their past wrongs, they come out and make a loud and positive declaration in support of LGB rights and all people can do is b1tch and moan?

    How about saying they have a long long long way to go in reforming their policies, methods and image but this is a positive step and is to be welcomed?

    Not everybody in FF was a crony who ruined politics. There is a new generation off FF politicians emerging and I'd rather spend my time applauding good work that they do (while criticising the bad) then harping on about past wrongs.

    FF were always going to move in this direction as the country did. I am just surprised that they did it so soon and is hopefully a sign that the younger more progressive wing of the party is coming to the fore.

    That makes it 3 of the 4 largest parties more or less in favour of marriage equality which is amazing.

    I didn't once think about FF 'ruining' politics when I saw this, I'm disgusted by these pro gay moves because because they're not being made because they're right, they're transparently being made to change the party image and gain votes, I'm not going to give them a pat on the back for that, I'll recognise the statistical benefit, but that's it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    I wouldn't necessarily be so sceptical about whether they believe this is the right move or are just hoping to gain political mileage.

    Ogra FF passed a similar motion two years ago or so. Most of the younger generation are pro marriage equality and this motion is probably at least partially a reflection of thr fact that the younger and more progressive elements of FF are coming to the fore as the party rebuilds.

    Even if they are doing this as a cynical ploy for votes, it's still an exteemy significant move in my book. Unlike labour, who have an urban and more socially liberal support base, FF have a traditionally conservative support. FF coming out in favour of marriage equality will bring some of those supporters along with them.

    It also I would hope put more pressure on FG on the marriage equality issue. Now the three biggest parties in the Dail are pro-marriage equality. FG will be under increased pressur to take a declared position, and they may not want to cast themselves as firmly anti-marriage equality when they know from recent surveys that the majority of the electorate, and particularly the younger electorate, are in favour of it.

    I think it's also significant that FF are taking a declared position which is contrary to the catholic churches position. It's a fairly significant reflectin of the churches diminishing influence, when they are willing to risk a "catholic" backlash. I'm told Labour and FG were taken aback by the amount of flack they got over the Vatican embassy closing, which might have deterred politicians from taking any contrary stances for a while.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭Pacifist Pigeon


    Actions speak louder than words.


  • Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Conor30


    floggg wrote: »
    Seriously? Whatever about their past wrongs, they come out and make a loud and positive declaration in support of LGB rights and all people can do is b1tch and moan?

    How about saying they have a long long long way to go in reforming their policies, methods and image but this is a positive step and is to be welcomed?

    Not everybody in FF was a crony who ruined politics. There is a new generation off FF politicians emerging and I'd rather spend my time applauding good work that they do (while criticising the bad) then harping on about past wrongs.

    FF were always going to move in this direction as the country did. I am just surprised that they did it so soon and is hopefully a sign that the younger more progressive wing of the party is coming to the fore.

    That makes it 3 of the 4 largest parties more or less in favour of marriage equality which is amazing.

    They're just making the point, that, after all their years in power ( and being against gay marriage), it's funny how they're now claiming to support gay marriage. It's not difficult to see some cynicism in this, even if one if a FF supporter. FF have always been populist, in my opinion. So maybe the fact that a substantial majority of Irish people support gay marriage, that FF feel they can safely jump on the bandwagon.
    Mind you, Labour claim to support gay marriage - we still await them to actually do something about that too!

    The fact that FF state that they support marriage equality is to be applauded, of course.

    I suppose it's called politics for a reason!


  • Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Conor30


    Senator Averil Power is also introducing a bill to get rid of the employment equality exemption for lgb people in schools/hospitals etc - she's leaving out the T so yes they want equality for some but not others

    At least it's still a move in the right direction. It's more than Labour and FG have done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Conor30 wrote: »
    At least it's still a move in the right direction. It's more than Labour and FG have done.

    Indeed. Hopefully the T will follow but it's still progress.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭ 62sqlgc0fkrx4m


    Dr. Baltar wrote: »
    Well done Fianna Fáil for jumping on the bandwagon. Yes it's good but they won't be getting my vote EVER. Never forget. Never forgive.
    How christian of you:rolleyes:. But don't worry your hardline stance on FF is totally unnecessary. They are a small fringe morally bankrupt party now looking to suck up a few votes.
    You have nothing to fear Dr Baltar - the government have no intentions of legalising gay marriage anytime soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    How christian of you:rolleyes:. But don't worry your hardline stance on FF is totally unnecessary. They are a small fringe morally bankrupt party now looking to suck up a few votes.
    You have nothing to fear Dr Baltar - the government have no intentions of legalising gay marriage anytime soon.

    Really? They have committed to looking at it as part of the Constitutional Convention, and all recent opinion polls show strong support for its introduction. It's a matter of when not if


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,538 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Conor30 wrote: »
    At least it's still a move in the right direction. It's more than Labour and FG have done.

    No - it's a very cynical move to look for the so called pink vote while deliberately leaving transgender employees out in case of controversy - Equality for some but not for others is not equality.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    floggg wrote: »
    I wouldn't necessarily be so sceptical about whether they believe this is the right move or are just hoping to gain political mileage.

    Ogra FF passed a similar motion two years ago or so. Most of the younger generation are pro marriage equality and this motion is probably at least partially a reflection of thr fact that the younger and more progressive elements of FF are coming to the fore as the party rebuilds.

    Even if they are doing this as a cynical ploy for votes, it's still an exteemy significant move in my book. Unlike labour, who have an urban and more socially liberal support base, FF have a traditionally conservative support. FF coming out in favour of marriage equality will bring some of those supporters along with them.

    It also I would hope put more pressure on FG on the marriage equality issue. Now the three biggest parties in the Dail are pro-marriage equality. FG will be under increased pressur to take a declared position, and they may not want to cast themselves as firmly anti-marriage equality when they know from recent surveys that the majority of the electorate, and particularly the younger electorate, are in favour of it.

    I think it's also significant that FF are taking a declared position which is contrary to the catholic churches position. It's a fairly significant reflectin of the churches diminishing influence, when they are willing to risk a "catholic" backlash. I'm told Labour and FG were taken aback by the amount of flack they got over the Vatican embassy closing, which might have deterred politicians from taking any contrary stances for a while.
    Fianna Failed is surely no longer one of the biggest parties in the Dail? FG then Labour then Sinn Fein and then the collection of independants could probably out-vote the party that brought Ireland to its knees! Young or old members, they will never change their old ideals and the young crowd are well trained in party politics and defending the party but they are wasting their time,

    The Republican Party were outed as traitors!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭ 62sqlgc0fkrx4m


    floggg wrote: »
    Really? They have committed to looking at it as part of the Constitutional Convention, and all recent opinion polls show strong support for its introduction. It's a matter of when not if
    emm - I don't see the government showing any signs of supporting a position that you claim is supported by the majority - why would politicans take such a contrary position I wonder?
    Poorly constructed poll questions and a naive benign understanding of the concept of gay marriage I suspect. Meanwhile, those in power avoid the issue as they see no gain from it - just like that earlier poster who said never forget and never forgive - I don't see the LGBT community as an attractive constituency for mainstream political parties apart from fringe parties like FF "whoring" for support


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011



    It may have been changed AGAIN. Link isn't working right now, I'll try again later.

    Conor30 wrote: »
    At least it's still a move in the right direction. It's more than Labour and FG have done.

    Both the Labour Minister for Education and the FG Minister for Health have stated they want the exemption for their respective areas removed (Quinn ages ago, Reilly in the Medical Times a few weeks ago). It'll be gone, properly, without any FF intervention shortly.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    emm - I don't see the government showing any signs of supporting a position that you claim is supported by the majority - why would politicans take such a contrary position I wonder?

    As stated, its very much on the agenda for the Constitutional Convention and is in the legislation pipeline anyway should the AG decide that it doesn't need a referendum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭ 62sqlgc0fkrx4m


    MYOB wrote: »
    As stated, its very much on the agenda for the Constitutional Convention and is in the legislation pipeline anyway should the AG decide that it doesn't need a referendum.
    so a sure thing then??? What was all the "noise" about so?
    Is the Fine Gael parlimentary party in favour of legislation for gay marriage?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    so a sure thing then??? What was all the "noise" about so?
    Is the Fine Gael parlimentary party in favour of legislation for gay marriage?

    The FG parliamentary party is against many things that they're going to be doing to ensure they stay in government.

    If the AG rules that its not against the Constitution, expect the single line that mentions mixed-gender to be deleted from the Civil Registration Act, 2004 and legislation to allow the transfer of civil partnerships to civil marriages and to repeal the civil partnership elements of the Civil Partnership & Certain Rights & Obligations of Cohabitants Act, 2010.

    If the AG rules that it is either obviously or possibly against the Constitution, it'll go to the Constitutional Convention to discuss whether to put it as one of the many referenda that could entail and then its down to the people.

    There's no way that it being found to be unconstitutional (which, I must add, it has NOT been found to be despite FF's insistance) can be worked around without a referendum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭ 62sqlgc0fkrx4m


    MYOB wrote: »
    The FG parliamentary party is against many things that they're going to be doing to ensure they stay in government.

    If the AG rules that its not against the Constitution, expect the single line that mentions mixed-gender to be deleted from the Civil Registration Act, 2004 and legislation to allow the transfer of civil partnerships to civil marriages and to repeal the civil partnership elements of the Civil Partnership & Certain Rights & Obligations of Cohabitants Act, 2010.

    If the AG rules that it is either obviously or possibly against the Constitution, it'll go to the Constitutional Convention to discuss whether to put it as one of the many referenda that could entail and then its down to the people.

    There's no way that it being found to be unconstitutional (which, I must add, it has NOT been found to be despite FF's insistance) can be worked around without a referendum.
    Are you confident of either situation? (Genuinely interested in your perspective. I am not gay and have been anti gay marriage but not trolling here)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    Cynical vote getting excercise IMO. It was at Labour's insistence that homosexuality was decriminalised in 1993 (David Norris' case also was a factor) and it was at the Green's insistence Civil Partnership was introduced.

    Actions speak louder than words or 'policy documents' that will never be implemented cause everyone hates you for betraying our nation. What does matter is what you do and FF is responsible for the constitution, a sexist, misogynistic document. Also FF has been in government 62 of the last 80 years and did not do a tap for LGBT rights, ever.

    Dont be fooled folks.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Are you confident of either situation? (Genuinely interested in your perspective. I am not gay and have been anti gay marriage but not trolling here)

    The constitutional element relies entirely on how fluent the judges are in Irish - the standard opinion is that there is no constitutional ban in Irish and there's a poor English translation of the Irish that changes some critical words. Irish takes legal precedence.

    If there's ruled to be no ban, it'll happen, and very shortly afterwards.

    Referendum wise, I'm unsure whether it'd pass. However, its fairly inevitable that it'd go to referendum, and on a day with rakes of others. Could end up relying on the same "wet day" that got Divorce passed in a very different Ireland 17 years ago.


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