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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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Comments

  • #1832
    [Jackass]
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    I'd say, barring injury, Kidney will go with a backline for the 6 nations of:

    9. Murray 10. O'Gara 11. Zebo 12. Leamy 13. Earls 14. O'Leary 15. Barnes


  • #1833
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    I'd say, barring injury, Kidney will go with a backline for the 6 nations of:

    9. Murray 10. O'Gara 11. Zebo 12. Leamy 13. Earls 14. O'Leary 15. Barnes

    Hayes at tighthead


  • #1834
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    To drop Sexton for ROG hell have to start Sexton in the first place, which will be a nice surprise!


  • #1835
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I refuse to believe that Kidney is myopic enough to pick ROG to start for the 6N. He somehow managed to convince himself to do it in the RWC (and Sexton's jitters with the boot didn't help his case) but it failed so spectacularly that surely he won't try it again. Right??


  • #1836
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Which begs the question, can you see the top of Devin toners head from the fence you're sitting on?

    Omalleys defense is excellent. It's certainly not a reason not to select him. As for the going low and engaging with your shoulder huff, have a look at Dom Ryans tackle of the year last season!

    Remind me again, did Ryan get knocked off the tackle? If he didn't there is no point in bringing it up.


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  • #1837
    [Jackass]
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    Personally, I'd go for:

    1. Healy
    2. Best (can't wait to be putting Strauss in there!)
    3. Ross
    4. Ryan (too late to bother giving Cullen an international career now)
    5. O'Connell
    6. Ferris
    7. O'Brien
    8. Heaslip (if Ferris gets injured I'd give Jennings a run at 7 with SO'B at 6)

    9. Reddan
    10. Sexton
    11. Fitzgerald
    12. McFadden
    13. Bowe
    14. Earls
    15. Kearney

    16. Cronin 17. Court 18. Toner 19. Jennings 20. Boss 21. O'Gara 22. D'Arcy

    Players of contention:

    If Kidney tried to get Ireland to play like Leinster, Ireland would be a much better team but also the players I'd pick would be very different.

    I suppose with Kidney rugby there's no point on quick ball, so guys like Reddan & Jennings aren't too important. There's also no point taking minor risks for potentially massive rewards, so maybe McFadden at 12 and Bowe at 13 isn't worthwhile, they've excelled their at club level, but we know Earls is mediocre in the centre, if dire in defence and a much stronger winger, but it feels cozy and comfortable for Kidney to put him in there.

    RE O'Malley, he has had a superb season so far, but he hasn't done enough to convince me that he's ready for international rugby yet. Maybe give him a half in one of the games, Scotland perhaps, but still much better options at 13 for the national team imo.

    Toner has been nothing short of sublime this season...incredibly, it's his link work, his hands, his offloads (ffs!!) that have mind him stand out. He wont get within an arses roar of a Kidney squad, but he's first choice Leinster 5 for me.

    Murray is a poor mans Boss for me. Boss is a scrapper, but knows when to scrap, knows when to distribute and knows when to break. On the rare occassion I've seen Munster get quick ball this season, it's usually ended up at the bottom of a ruck with Murray.

    That's fine if you want cheap 15 metres and let your pack do all the work, but we've good backs in Ireland and should try and use them, and Murray is most definitely not the man for that job.

    I would start phasing out D'Arcy this season to be honest. If Kidney can show an ounce of faith in an Eastern Province man, he would experiment with combinations here, with McFadden the leader in midfield.

    Fitz playing the best rugby of his career, and is a shoe i for first 15, might make Kidneys extended training squad.

    Finaly O'Gara, still there on merrit, but I'd give Madigan a run off the bench in a couple of games and phase out the old warrior.

    Remember, we're at the start of a new world cup cycle now...


  • #1838
    padser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭padser


    [Quote=[Jackass];76203197

    Finaly O'Gara, still there on merrit, but I'd give Madigan a run off the bench in a couple of games and phase out the old warrior.

    Remember, we're at the start of a new world cup cycle now...[/Quote]


    I think DK showed this yr without any shadow of a doubt that irelands rwc cycle starts during the warm up games for that rwc


  • #1839
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    [Jackass] wrote: »
    Personally, I'd go for:

    1. Healy
    2. Best (can't wait to be putting Strauss in there!)
    3. Ross
    4. Ryan (too late to bother giving Cullen an international career now)
    5. O'Connell
    6. Ferris
    7. O'Brien
    8. Heaslip (if Ferris gets injured I'd give Jennings a run at 7 with SO'B at 6)

    9. Reddan
    10. Sexton
    11. Fitzgerald
    12. McFadden
    13. Bowe
    14. Earls
    15. Kearney

    16. Cronin 17. Court 18. Toner 19. Jennings 20. Boss 21. O'Gara 22. D'Arcy

    Players of contention:

    If Kidney tried to get Ireland to play like Leinster, Ireland would be a much better team but also the players I'd pick would be very different.

    I suppose with Kidney rugby there's no point on quick ball, so guys like Reddan & Jennings aren't too important. There's also no point taking minor risks for potentially massive rewards, so maybe McFadden at 12 and Bowe at 13 isn't worthwhile, they've excelled their at club level, but we know Earls is mediocre in the centre, if dire in defence and a much stronger winger, but it feels cozy and comfortable for Kidney to put him in there.

    RE O'Malley, he has had a superb season so far, but he hasn't done enough to convince me that he's ready for international rugby yet. Maybe give him a half in one of the games, Scotland perhaps, but still much better options at 13 for the national team imo.

    Toner has been nothing short of sublime this season...incredibly, it's his link work, his hands, his offloads (ffs!!) that have mind him stand out. He wont get within an arses roar of a Kidney squad, but he's first choice Leinster 5 for me.

    Murray is a poor mans Boss for me. Boss is a scrapper, but knows when to scrap, knows when to distribute and knows when to break. On the rare occassion I've seen Munster get quick ball this season, it's usually ended up at the bottom of a ruck with Murray.

    That's fine if you want cheap 15 metres and let your pack do all the work, but we've good backs in Ireland and should try and use them, and Murray is most definitely not the man for that job.

    I would start phasing out D'Arcy this season to be honest. If Kidney can show an ounce of faith in an Eastern Province man, he would experiment with combinations here, with McFadden the leader in midfield.

    Fitz playing the best rugby of his career, and is a shoe i for first 15, might make Kidneys extended training squad.

    Finaly O'Gara, still there on merrit, but I'd give Madigan a run off the bench in a couple of games and phase out the old warrior.

    Remember, we're at the start of a new world cup cycle now...

    No Tuohy?


  • #1840
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    I would agree with that team Jackass.
    I wouldn't start O Malley or Murray, Reddan has been playing like a man posessed for Leinster in the past few games.

    Sexton simply has to start at 10.
    DOC should drop out, Darcy should drop to the bench.
    Ryan, Toner, Tuohy and POC should be the locks imo.

    The fact that Court is our only option on the bench is, as always, worrying.

    Best simply has to start on the back of his WC. First name on the team for me.

    The only thing I would say is that backline looks a little callow or something to me.

    Don't think Madigan is near being ready for a 6N game yet at all. We're getting way ahead of ourselves here, and anyway, it will never happen.


  • #1841
    emmet02
    Registered Users Posts: 24,815 ✭✭✭✭emmet02


    Regardless of others

    1. Healy
    2. Best
    3.
    4.
    5. Tuohy
    6. Ferris
    7. SOB
    8. Heaslip


    could carry ball until the ends of time. We could play sexy rugby with these lads in charge up front and a quick 9/10 combo.

    Unfortunately, "sexy rugby" has never been a brand of rugby that any Irish coach is too fond if getting involved with.


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  • #1842
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    tolosenc wrote: »
    As for danthefan's selection, I largely agree. I wouldn't consider Best a dead cert though.

    Who else is an option? Besides, Best was one of Ireland's best players at the RWC. I think he is far and away the best option there at the moment.

    Of the positions actually feasibly up for grabs, I'd take Touhy at lock, Reddan at scrum half (though wouldn't have any real problem with Murray at this stage), O'Malley at outside centre and Trimble at 11.

    This is under the proviso that I haven't seen a lot of Cave, but the chances of anyone apart from Earls starting at 13 are negligible anyway. :(

    I'd probably prefer McFadden to D'Arcy at inside centre too. Though whether there is any chance of that happening depends on the Leinster selection for the last two HEC games imo.


  • #1843
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Would it be too outrageous to suggest:

    1. Healy
    2. Best
    3. Ross
    4. Tuohy
    5. POC
    6. Ferris
    7. Jennings
    8. SOB


  • #1844
    AtItAllDayRef
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭AtItAllDayRef


    padser wrote: »
    I think DK showed this yr without any shadow of a doubt that irelands rwc cycle starts during the warm up games for that rwc

    The IRFU policy has decided that for both EOS and Kidney. Aim is to win the 6 nations every year and the RWC cycle is not as important.


  • #1845
    AtItAllDayRef
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭AtItAllDayRef


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Would it be too outrageous to suggest:

    1. Healy
    2. Best
    3. Ross
    4. Tuohy
    5. POC
    6. Ferris
    7. Jennings
    8. SOB

    Heaslip on a central contract dropped to accomodate Jennings who has failed to shine when given his chances at international level?


  • #1846
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    AtItAllDayRef wrote: »
    Heaslip on a central contract dropped to accomodate Jennings who has failed to shine when given his chances at international level?

    He's in form with Leinster. Just a suggestion.


  • #1847
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Would it be too outrageous to suggest:

    6. Ferris
    7. Jennings
    8. SOB

    Yes. Heaslip is a better 8 then SOB and Jennings is hit and miss to even make the Leinster 1st XV at the moment.


  • #1848
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Yes. Heaslip is a better 8 then SOB and Jennings is hit and miss to even make the Leinster 1st XV at the moment.

    I think Jennings is unlucky. Schmidt seems to prefer a big physical player like McLaughlin for the big away games, but Jennings helps to speed things up (HEC Final for example) for Leinster. Ireland play a lot better with the quick ball that Jennings could possibly help provide.


  • #1849
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I think Jennings is unlucky. Schmidt seems to prefer a big physical player like McLaughlin for the big away games, but Jennings helps to speed things up (HEC Final for example) for Leinster. Ireland play a lot better with the quick ball that Jennings could possibly help provide.

    I think that Jenno's time in an Ireland shirt is up, despite the obvious upsides to his play.
    Heopfully D Ryan or another classic 7 will be an option soon becaue I fully believe we will continue to struggle with that carrying backrow.


  • #1850
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I think Jennings is unlucky. Schmidt seems to prefer a big physical player like McLaughlin for the big away games, but Jennings helps to speed things up (HEC Final for example) for Leinster. Ireland play a lot better with the quick ball that Jennings could possibly help provide.

    I think McLaughlin is primarily there for his line-out work but it has to be said that his immense work-rate does let SOB and to a lesser extent Heaslip play their more natural games. I think at this stage any chance Jennings had to break into the Ireland team is gone though. I don't disagree that he would bring excellent attributes to the team but he's going to be busy enough trying to get into the first team in Leinster. I'm not overly fond of the balance in the Ireland's back row currently but on the other hand they are far and away the three best players available.


  • #1851
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Why anyone would go near touching that back row after the way they played in New Zealand is beyond me, especially Heaslip.


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  • #1852
    Takeabath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭Takeabath


    1.Healy 2. Best 3. Ross 4. POC 5.touhy 6.ferris 7. O'brien 8. Heaslip 9. Redden 10. Sexton 11.Fitzgerald 12. D'arcy 13.O'Malley 14. Bowe 15. Kearney .... In reality the team picks itself the only position that is remotely up for contention is McFadden or omalley for 13


  • #1853
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    Takeabath wrote: »
    1.Healy 2. Best 3. Ross 4. POC 5.touhy 6.ferris 7. O'brien 8. Heaslip 9. Redden 10. Sexton 11.Fitzgerald 12. D'arcy 13.O'Malley 14. Bowe 15. Kearney .... In reality the team picks itself the only position that is remotely up for contention is McFadden or omalley for 13

    Tuohy and POC are both typically 5's, the positions aren't as interchangeable as you might think...


  • #1854
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Takeabath wrote: »
    1.Healy 2. Best 3. Ross 4. POC 5.touhy 6.ferris 7. O'brien 8. Heaslip 9. Redden 10. Sexton 11.Fitzgerald 12. D'arcy 13.O'Malley 14. Bowe 15. Kearney .... In reality the team picks itself the only position that is remotely up for contention is McFadden or omalley for 13

    Tuohy and POC are both typically 5's, the positions aren't as interchangeable as you might think...
    In my own experience they are as much as makes no odds.


  • #1855
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Tuohy and POC are both typically 5's, the positions aren't as interchangeable as you might think...

    Ah they are though :p


  • #1856
    Benny Cake
    Registered Users Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭Benny Cake


    wixfjord wrote: »
    Ah they are though :p

    Silly me, should have checked with wixfjord before posting an opinion...

    Anyhow, there was a good thread on this here before, have a read and make your own mind up...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59673650

    FYI: I played second row at the lofty heights of Munster B schools so I think my opinion can be trusted :p


  • #1857
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    Benny Cake wrote: »
    Silly me, should have checked with wixfjord before posting an opinion...

    Anyhow, there was a good thread on this here before, have a read and make your own mind up...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59673650

    FYI: I played second row at the lofty heights of Munster B schools so I think my opinion can be trusted :p

    Nah, feck all difference bar the fact that 5 is generally the sturdier and heftier, both in my own experience and general consensus also.

    Certainly no reason not to start Tuohy and POC together for eg.


  • #1858
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I think McLaughlin is primarily there for his line-out work but it has to be said that his immense work-rate does let SOB and to a lesser extent Heaslip play their more natural games. I think at this stage any chance Jennings had to break into the Ireland team is gone though. I don't disagree that he would bring excellent attributes to the team but he's going to be busy enough trying to get into the first team in Leinster. I'm not overly fond of the balance in the Ireland's back row currently but on the other hand they are far and away the three best players available.

    I think that's a very salient point. Jennings speeds up/slows down ball significantly which gives SOB and Heaslip opportunity to make some big plays but McLaughlin frees them up in a similar fashion. His workrate is immense. I lost count of how many times he carried the ball the other night. He doesn't smash through the defensive line but he does normally take two defenders in and presents the ball very well allowing quick ball.

    Ireland's current back row is probably the best available. I don't think there's any reason to change it given how it operated in the WC. Gets our best players on the field and, overall, makes the biggest impact possible (with Wallace not in the equation anymore).


  • #1859
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    wixfjord wrote: »
    Nah, feck all difference bar the fact that 5 is generally the sturdier and heftier, both in my own experience and general consensus also.

    Certainly no reason not to start Tuohy and POC together for eg.

    Other way around generally with 4 being the more hefty/powerful i.e. Shaw, Botha, DOC, Thorn, Gray and 5 being the more athletic. Obviously there are exceptions. But I would agree that the positions are fairly interchangeable these days to the same level of playing left and right wing. A player will be more comfortable in one but can play the other. There are multiple examples of players who play both positions. MOD, Nallet, Mal O'Kelly, Cullen, Donncha Ryan...all have played both positions professionally in big HEC/international games. Get Tuohy packing down at 4 now for a few games, getting familiar and comfortable with his bind and positioning in the scrum.


  • #1860
    [Jackass]
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    wixfjord wrote: »
    Nah, feck all difference bar the fact that 5 is generally the sturdier and heftier, both in my own experience and general consensus also.

    Certainly no reason not to start Tuohy and POC together for eg.

    Donnacha O'Callaghan was a 5 until he was moved to 4 to accomodate Munsters 2 best second rows way back when. Hasn't moved since.

    It makes zero difference to field positioning, scrummaging, and only makes a difference to what point of the line out you jump at. Massively interchangable.


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  • #1861
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    Sorry yes meant 4 when I was referring to the sturdier and heftier, enforcer type.


This discussion has been closed.
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