Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

What's it like working in development - part time work available?

Options
  • 11-09-2015 2:52pm
    #1
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭


    Hey, I'm just browsing future career options.

    Looking on jobs websites, there's so much work in ICT but, I've been reviewing code and coding courses over the past while and, yeah - not gonna lie - it's pretty challenging.

    My main objective is to simply get work that will cover my expenses and not consume too much of my life cause, I have a far greater focus on outside interests.

    Are there part time positions available in software development, generally speaking?

    Coming from Civil Engineering - there are no part time positions available.
    The industry just doesn't work like that.

    I'm just curious as to how those working in the development industry find the work?
    Is it very labor intensive/stressful?
    Constantly meeting deadlines and working long hours, that type of thing?


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Why not just go for ''non-skilled'' work if all you're interested in is covering expenses?


  • Options
    #3
    counterpointaud
    Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭counterpointaud


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    Is it very labor intensive/stressful?

    yes
    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    Constantly meeting deadlines and working long hours, that type of thing?

    yes


    There are some other perks though. The possibility of remote work, for one.


  • Options
    #4
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    counterpointaud wrote: »
    yes



    yes


    There are some other perks though. The possibility of remote work, for one.

    This would not be my experience. If you enjoy the work then it is challenging and fun. I wouldn't call it stressful. There are of course deadlines, but if you are having to work overtime then it is a product of poor planning and grooming which reflects badly on the team. A good team with a good PO will always have things under control.


  • Options
    #5
    moc moc a moc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭moc moc a moc


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    not gonna lie - it's pretty challenging.

    My main objective is to simply get work that will cover my expenses and not consume too much of my life cause, I have a far greater focus on outside interests.

    Sorry buddy, but based on the above, software development (at least, getting good enough at it that you can work only part time and still make good money) is not for you.


  • Options
    #6
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Why not just go for ''non-skilled'' work if all you're interested in is covering expenses?

    Because in my experience, non-skilled work is just as long and hard and pays far worse, when I know I have the ability to apply myself in something where I can make much more money, thus better cover my expenses, and hopefully work less hours.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    moc moc a moc wrote: »
    Sorry buddy, but based on the above, software development (at least, getting good enough at it that you can work only part time and still make good money) is not for you.

    Can you elaborate on that?

    What I'm referring to is basically learning java coding.

    Confronted with this wall of text and symbols for the first time, trying to absorb that in such a way as to be able to reproduce it competently - would I be wrong in saying, anyone may find that challenging?

    Isn't it true that software development courses have some of the highest drop out rates of any college courses?


  • Options
    #8
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    My main objective is to simply get work that will cover my expenses and not consume too much of my life cause, I have a far greater focus on outside interests.

    Are there part time positions available in software development, generally speaking?

    Not at graduate level. A career in software development borders on a vocation, in my mind. You need to be passionate about it.


  • Options
    #9
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    The alternative I'm looking at is a masters in renewables and energy efficiency, a follow on from civil engineering - I'm not sure what the part time prospects are for that though.


  • Options
    #10
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    Berserker wrote: »
    Not at graduate level. A career in software development borders on a vocation, in my mind.

    Do you mean to say that, to really have a career in software development, be it full or part time, there must be something of a passion for development?

    That being the case, are there other areas of ICT that I could avail of?

    The option I have at the moment is a springboard conversion course.
    Coming off something like that, I'm wondering what my career prospects would be...
    Full time - labor intensive stuff?


  • Options
    #11
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    Berserker wrote: »
    Not at graduate level. A career in software development borders on a vocation, in my mind. You need to be passionate about it.

    Okay, I have to ask, that being the case....

    How many people are genuinely passionate about writing code?

    Isn't there a massive deficit in the availability of competent developers?
    If making the grade really requires a "passion", won't that always be the case?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    salamanca22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭salamanca22


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    Okay, I have to ask, that being the case....

    How many people are genuinely passionate about writing code?

    Isn't there a massive deficit in the availability of competent developers?
    If making the grade really requires a "passion", won't that always be the case?

    There are plenty of people who are passionate about writing code, you just have to look at the likes of github and see how many people are giving away their code for free.

    There will always be a deficit of top tier anything, programmer, carpenters, janitors or whatever else you have, that is why they are head hunted and paid top dollar.


  • Options
    #13
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    Do you mean to say that, to really have a career in software development, be it full or part time, there must be something of a passion for development?
    Why did you choose civil engineering to begin with?
    How many people are genuinely passionate about writing code?

    I LOVE Python. Perl used to be my go to language, but then I got hooked on Python. I never really took to Java. Why did you choose Java of all things?


  • Options
    #14
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    salamanca22 wrote: »
    There are plenty of people who are passionate about writing code, you just have to look at the likes of github and see how many people are giving away their code for free.

    There will always be a deficit of top tier anything, programmer, carpenters, janitors or whatever else you have, that is why they are head hunted and paid top dollar.

    So obviously you agree with Beserker about it being a vocation.

    Given the fact that I've done some surface level online courses and found them so and so - is that an indicator of suitability?

    Would you be in a position to recommend any material for me to cover such that when I've completed it, I'd know if coding was or wasn't for me?


  • Options
    #15
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    Okay, I have to ask, that being the case....

    How many people are genuinely passionate about writing code?

    Isn't there a massive deficit in the availability of competent developers?
    If making the grade really requires a "passion", won't that always be the case?

    In response to your first question, you could try for a low level support role.

    In response to the above, plenty of people are passionate. I love writing and designing solutions in C#. As we speak, I am re-writing some old code. If you are not passionate about it then you will not take pride in your work and you will end up writing code which is poor in terms of quality. That will make your working life more difficult and it will also make life harder on your colleagues. There is a shortage in the sector because software development is a difficult skill to master and a skill which is based on problem solving, something that Irish people are not exposed to in education.


  • Options
    #16
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    syklops wrote: »
    Why did you choose civil engineering to begin with?

    I actually chose mechanical engineering initially, cause I always had a natural curiosity about the mechanics of various pieces of technology.

    I did my first year in that, and discovered that learning these mechanics, is not so easy.
    That and the fact that I developed huge external interests which the schedule of college clashed with, in conjunction with the fact that we were within the grips of the celtic tiger at the time, so it made all the sense in the world for me to switch to a more construction orientated form of engineering - thus walking into a high paid job after graduation.

    That's pretty much my logic behind development.

    It's probably the most sought after profession at the moment, easy to find a job. Good money.


  • Options
    #17
    Under_Graduate
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Under_Graduate


    Berserker wrote: »
    In response to your first question, you could try for a low level support role.

    In response to the above, plenty of people are passionate. If you are not passionate then you will not take pride in your work and you will end up writing code which is poor in terms of quality. That will make your working life more difficult and it will also make life harder on your colleagues. There is a shortage in the sector because software development is a difficult skill to master and a skill which is based on problem solving, something that Irish people are not exposed to in education.

    Low level support role.

    So doing a technicians course like Comptia or some networking certs and the resulting employment?
    I've been looking in that area, and the main advice I was given was that, it's basically minimum wage work, and I'd be better off doing a post grad conversion course in development.

    Your second paragraph perfectly describes the time I spent working as an engineer.

    All I could think about all day was getting finished and doing my thing.
    I did not take pride in the work, was resultingly of poor quality, and it made life more difficult on my colleagues (resulting in a lot of bad feeling and poor communication between us).

    But it still leaves me with the conundrum as to what direction I should go with my future.


  • Options
    #18
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    I can't see how you'd manage to move into a completely new career on a part time basis while immediately maintaining a decent income.

    With little to no commercial experience you'll be competing at the lowest end of the market against students working for beer money and ultra-low-cost offshore/freelance operations. You're unlikely to find a part-time graduate or junior dev position, even less likely to find one with reasonable pay.

    If you're really considering a career move into development you need to seriously re-evaluate your commitment.

    If you do manage to work out how to jump into ANY career with reasonable pay, little stress and part-time hours that allow you to focus on your outside interests, please be sure to post back and tell us all the secret.


  • Options
    #19
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    Low level support role.

    So doing a technicians course like Comptia or some networking certs and the resulting employment?
    I've been looking in that area, and the main advice I was given was that, it's basically minimum wage work, and I'd be better off doing a post grad conversion course in development.

    Your second paragraph perfectly describes the time I spent working as an engineer.

    All I could think about all day was getting finished and doing my thing.
    I did not take pride in the work, was resultingly of poor quality, and it made life more difficult on my colleagues (resulting in a lot of bad feeling and poor communication between us).

    But it still leaves me with the conundrum as to what direction I should go with my future.

    What are you passionate about?


  • Options
    #20
    Buford T Justice
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Buford T Justice


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    Because in my experience, non-skilled work is just as long and hard and pays far worse, when I know I have the ability to apply myself in something where I can make much more money, thus better cover my expenses, and hopefully work less hours.

    Not part time you can't. Not in software development and not least in a language like Java. You can't be expected to be involved in a project of reasonable scale on a part time basis. By the time you catch up with the team on where they're at, its home time again.
    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    Can you elaborate on that?

    What I'm referring to is basically learning java coding.

    Confronted with this wall of text and symbols for the first time, trying to absorb that in such a way as to be able to reproduce it competently - would I be wrong in saying, anyone may find that challenging?

    Isn't it true that software development courses have some of the highest drop out rates of any college courses?

    There's a reason for that. Learning via an online course is great. You can simply follow along with the tutorials and lean about basic java functionality but this is nothing compared to a real world development environment
    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    Do you mean to say that, to really have a career in software development, be it full or part time, there must be something of a passion for development?

    That being the case, are there other areas of ICT that I could avail of?

    The option I have at the moment is a springboard conversion course.
    Coming off something like that, I'm wondering what my career prospects would be...
    Full time - labor intensive stuff?
    To be a serious developer takes effort and hard work. There's no in between casual developers particularly in languages like java which require more than just a part time effort.. So it's made easier by having a passion for software dev. Simply put - if you're the kind of person that prefers to build things and create physical stuff then software isn't for you.

    Much like other disciplines, there isn't much call for part time developers in software because of the reasons above. Full Time Staff are far more desirable, up to speed and in touch with new developments in software advancement since its a career - versus someone who only dips in and our of it here and there.

    If you're looking for easy money for not a lot of effort, you're looking in the wrong place.


  • Options
    #21
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    Because in my experience, non-skilled work is just as long and hard and pays far worse, when I know I have the ability to apply myself in something where I can make much more money, thus better cover my expenses, and hopefully work less hours.
    Become a rent boy.

    TBH, I understand where you're coming from; you reckon you have an aptitude, can turn to development and that this may be a well paid profession on an hourly basis, leaving you with plenty of freedom to pursue your 'outside interests'. And yes, it can be, but as with most careers or professions not at the start.

    In the real World, those jobs that will eventually allow you to earn silly money from doing relatively little work only do so because you did a lot of work on the way up. In many if not most cases, solicitors, doctors, developers and the like will be doing much longer hours and/or get paid less than someone walking into a factory job, even before you consider the investment in education they need to put in (and in development continue doing so for their entire careers).

    So development can become an 'easy', well paid job, but not for years - it's also no guaranteed it will either (Barristers being an example of where that investment often never pays off).

    So a non-skilled job probably will fit what you're looking for. You'll never progress, but it'll cover your expenses, if that's what you're looking for. Some, such as the sex industry, will also pay far more, if you really want to maximize your income for minimum effort - jobs that are unpleasant, dangerous, socially unattractive will tend to pay well. Or see if you can somehow monetize your 'outside interests'.

    But a nice easy job from day one, you're not going to find, TBH. Certainly not development.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    Interesting thread. Being honest OP I think you're looking to have your cake and eat it. Don't take that as an insult though, if you get the life you're looking for then very fair play to you, just leave us know your secret. :D

    In terms of well paying jobs, I lived with a paramedic once. He got hunted by a company for a part-time number (that he could do in conjunction with his main job) to be an on-site medical person in a mine. Can't remember the figures but the pay was ridiculously good, possibly the fact that it could be dangerous work if there was an emergency helped I guess.

    Whatever you do, you need to actually enjoy it. I don't think you are particularly enthusiastic about Development, so it might be difficult to succeed in it.

    We were discussing in work what we would do if we won money in the Lotto, not enough to retire but enough to take life easier. We reckoned we would contract for 6 months each winter and take the rest of the year off. But of course for contracting you need good skills and solid experience if you want the high rate paying jobs.

    Do let us know how you get on.


  • Options
    #23
    imitation
    Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭imitation


    Under_Graduate wrote: »
    That and the fact that I developed huge external interests which the schedule of college clashed with,

    Id say we all have huge external interests outside of work/education, but unless a persons won the lotto or has some other cash source, they can just gotta sacrifice it, if they want the usual things like a mortgage and a family. As this is the general case for most people, the 5 day, 40 hour week is considered the norm. I have seen people in engineering get part time after long service with a company but nobodys going to walk into a job like that. I reckon theres few solid reasons for that.

    If your working part time, you will gain experience slower.
    If other people are relying on you they could be waiting 2-3 working days for you.
    In software development underestimation of work, project deadlines, random issues etc are common, so often overtime is expected, if you specifically want to work 3 days then its likey you will refuse overtime as you have other commitments.
    The man hour myth goes double for development, 1 dev working 40 hours it is worth a lot more than 2 working 20 hours.


  • Options
    #24
    counterpointaud
    Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭counterpointaud


    imitation wrote: »
    The man hour myth goes double for development, 1 dev working 40 hours it is worth a lot more than 2 working 20 hours.

    This is very true, and the main reason for lack of part-time dev roles IMO.


  • Options
    #25
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,357 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I've never met an actual part time software dev in my life.

    At best you can become a self employed contractor and be very selective about when you work, but that won't even be proper part time. It'd be more like you work full time for a while and then don't work at all for a while.


  • Options
    #26
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    awec wrote: »
    I've never met an actual part time software dev in my life.
    Probably rare in Ireland, but they do exist - depends on the culture of part time work in general in a society. 'Part time' developers - more correctly those who will work 40% - 80% are not too uncommon here. It's often negotiated by developers seeking greater work-life balance or who wish to share parenting with their spouses (who also will tend to work 'part time').


  • Options
    #27
    moycullen14
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭moycullen14


    Part time developers do exist. I know a fair number of women, for example, who work in development 3-4 days a week. Usually, though, they are bringing a lot to the table in terms of domain specific skills and experience. It's a win-win because the employees really value the part-time aspect of the work and employers know it's a form of handcuff.

    Joining a project part-time is a whole different ball game. On-boarding (getting up to speed) takes much longer if you are working part-time and unless you are bringing some niche skills, it's unlikely that it would be seen as worthwhile.

    IMO, project work (team work, really) isn't terribly suited to part-time working. Really, what you want is well paid piece work. Something like Dentistry, Pharmacy or, maybe, Medicine.


  • Options
    #28
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,357 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Are these women working part time post child birth though?

    I would see that as a different set of circumstances.


  • Options
    #29
    moycullen14
    Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭moycullen14


    awec wrote: »
    Are these women working part time post child birth though?

    I would see that as a different set of circumstances.

    Generally, yes. Although one I know is a part-time carer. Not sure what difference it makes, though.

    One thing I have noticed about people who work part-time or are on the clock: they seem to be much more task focussed. A lot less time wasting than with those who 'work' 50+ hours a week.

    In the end, it's all about productivity, not hours worked.


  • Options
    #30
    bpmurray
    Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭bpmurray


    Reading through this thread, I'm surprised at the naiveté of the OP. To be a software developer requires a good grounding/education in the basics, e.g. a degree in software engineering or computer science. Once you graduate, you are a total beginner: an employer assumes you know nothing but hopes that you can make a contribution to the project in probably 6 months or so. After a few years experience (5-10, depending on your experience), you hit the point where you have sufficient knowledge such that you can decide to go part-time.

    Software development is not a 9-5 job - I've worked many 48-hour days, and have spent weeks without a weekend off and only very, very few companies give time off in lieu. The industry is becoming even less forgiving, with many DevOps roles now assuming people are available 24x7, so don't think it's an easy job.

    And the comments about passion are true: I've been playing the software development game for over 35 years and am still passionate about it, learning new stuff all the time, playing with new languages / frameworks / technologies / etc.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    moycullen14 wrote: »
    In the end, it's all about productivity, not hours worked.
    Not entirely. It's also about availability.


Advertisement