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Protesters Filming Gardai Vs Garda right to protect their identity

13

Comments

  • #62
    metman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭metman


    jetsonx wrote: »
    Do you really think he was comitting a criminal offence with his phone ?

    What was the rationale behind this intent to confiscate his phone?

    As CD says if you re-read what I posted I think it was fairly clear.

    However, without getting into a class on the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, no I didn't think the other person was committing an offence with his phone; he was videoing one. This then makes his phone of evidential value to any investigation (me dealing with his friend's public order offence) and I have a power to seize anything of evidential value pertinent to an investigation in which I'm involved.

    That was the rationale and I'd have quite happily taken the phone had his friend persisted and would have been acting legally in doing so.


  • #63
    vote4pedro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    Some of the policing at eircom League games is unbelievably, incredibly poor and so I can't see how any Garda could complain about being photographed in public going about there business, when they're happy to videotape, not just protests/marches, but crowds of innocent football fans at Dalymount Park, Tolka Park etc.

    Would it have anything to do with the events that resulted in Gardai being charged with assault? I suspect so but then again, Im fuzzy on the whole thing. Wasnt 'Robocop' found innocent on all charges by a jury of citizens of the state?

    Sounds like a case of a man being wrongly accused to me considering we do believe in innocent until proven guilty dont we? Maybe we should have a tribunal and see if certain people on the day perjured themselves in court and contaminated video evidence? the juries decision would seem to indicate that this may have happened.

    Good heavens


  • #64
    ojewriej
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭ojewriej


    Ok, this is getting ridiculus, so just to clarify my position again:

    karlito:
    I am pretty sure I addressed all the points you made, you ignored few of mine though. But if you feel differently - what questions did I ignore?

    I agree with metman - I don't see why this thread became so agitated. Again, all I'm saying is that it should be ok to film Gardai on the street. You are the ones talking about shoving the camera in guard's face. Obviously, if the filming is becoming a nuissance or it's obstructing a guard from doing his job, it should be dealt with.

    In my opinion, when it comes to airing this kind of footage, members of the public should give their permission, whereas it shouldn't be a requrement when it comes to the policemen on duty - because if you are on duty you are not a Joe Soap, but a policeman. This gives you certain privileges, but also some responsibilities.

    I'm struggling to see why do you keep twisting and blowing my words out of proportion, making it out as I'm attacking the organisation as a whole and every Garda. Implying a superiority on my part is quite laughable to be honest - all my grandparents, and both my parents are or were civil servants (teachers, policemen, firemen), and I'm trying to become one as well. To be honest some kind of insecurities come to mind here rather than superiority complex.

    I repeat: civil servants are no better or worse than anyone else - they just have certain privileges and responsibilities others don't.

    At culabulla - I don't necessary have to like being filmed. But being in a public place, I can be, there is nothing i can do about it.

    As for taxes: What is the final balance though? Tax breaks are just an incentive to set up the shop here, the company might pay less, but it still pays taxes. And the amounts are not small either. Without a tax break, it would pay them in some other country, so it was in the governmet's interest to attract the business here.

    Bottom line is - do we get the money from the revenue, or do we contribute to it?


  • #65
    Satan Polaroid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Satan Polaroid


    Whatever the legal ramifications, it is not nice to have a camera shove in front of your face and some tw@t asking you stupid questions.

    In fact, it is down right rude!


  • #66
    ojewriej
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭ojewriej


    Satan Polaroid wrote: »
    Whatever the legal ramifications, it is not nice to have a camera shove in front of your face and some tw@t asking you stupid questions.

    In fact, it is down right rude!

    I agree. But it's a completely different issue.


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  • #67
    vote4pedro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    Satan Polaroid wrote: »
    Whatever the legal ramifications, it is not nice to have a camera shove in front of your face and some tw@t asking you stupid questions.

    In fact, it is down right rude!

    Of course it is, but I find it rude when the police do the same to me at football matches, and I'd imagine peaceful protesters do too.


  • #68
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    What the Gards are up against.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw7iZXty8uY


    Presumably the staff of the petrol station called them but the video shows Detectives monitoring a protest. Obviously in case any breach of the peace or damage to property occurs.

    All the well educated protester was short of saying was "Yes Gauuurd you should be out rounding up rapists and drug dealers not hassling us who have been educated in private schools in dublin 4 and have chosen an alternative lifestyle" :mad::mad:

    The video was filmed in Finglas as far as i know and you can be sure the detective branch in finglas would be one of the most active in the country with regard to arrests and convictions. Considering the amount of serious crime committed in their district. But on this day they had to babysit some long haired sandle wearing anti establishment presumably unemployed dogooders.


  • #69
    Fyr.Fytr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Fyr.Fytr


    Permission to say "Damn D4 wannabe crustys"

    Fair play to the guard gave a good as he got


  • #70
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Fyr.Fytr wrote: »
    Permission to say "Damn D4 wannabe crustys"

    Fair play to the guard gave a good as he got


    "wha wha wha wha what"

    Quality from the detective :D:D:D


  • #71
    Fyr.Fytr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Fyr.Fytr


    "Go on Tagth go over there and be a good little boy"

    "by loik roish who are you to say i cant film you loik roish"


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  • #72
    tmulcahy365
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭tmulcahy365


    I'd like to have seen the start of the clip as it doesn't show how the Guard dealt with it initially, and he may have been provoked.

    But overall the Guard dealt with that very poorly. Surely he should have known that in this situation, someone pointing a camera at him is expecting a reaction.. and thats exactly what was given..

    He should have been a bit more relaxed about it and simply informed them that they were making sure it was a peaceful protest and then closing his window and ignoring the guy rather than acting like a branch of the secret police.


  • #73
    Fyr.Fytr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Fyr.Fytr


    Apart from the fact as chief said detective in finglas have 101 better things to do with their time then babysit a protest, so needless to say he wasnt too pleased to begin with


  • #74
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    If the garage called the gards because they were in fear the gardai have to respond.

    The Gardai do not have to be happy about being there.

    Especially when they could be out hassling serious criminals who they know on a first name basis. Things they do on a daily basis.


  • #75
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    tmulcahy365 wrote: »
    I'd like to have seen the start of the clip as it doesn't show how the Guard dealt with it initially, and he may have been provoked.

    But overall the Guard dealt with that very poorly. Surely he should have known that in this situation, someone pointing a camera at him is expecting a reaction.. and thats exactly what was given..

    He should have been a bit more relaxed about it and simply informed them that they were making sure it was a peaceful protest and then closing his window and ignoring the guy rather than acting like a branch of the secret police.

    should have simple ignored him full stop in my opinion but he was probable annoyed to begin with and decided too at least have some input for when the footage was put online as he surely knew it would.

    The sad thing is a lot of times a protest can be carried out peacefully, with minimum fuss and bother for passersby and with mutual co-operation but these guys are so aggressive to begin with and treat everyone as an enemy.


  • #76
    Fyr.Fytr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Fyr.Fytr


    Chief--- wrote: »
    If the garage called the gards because they were in fear the gardai have to respond.

    The Gardai do not have to be happy about being there.

    Especially when they could be out hassling serious criminals who they know on a first name basis. Things they do on a daily basis.

    Exactly my point, they have a duty to respond and as a result have to focus their attention away from the bigger fish they have to fry.


  • #77
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    can a gardai tell me what teh story would be if they seen RTE filming them? also i dont agree to the type of filming above.. its just stupid...


  • #78
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    RTE reporters dont antagonise the gardai into arresting them so they can file complaints and civil suits.

    RTE reporters dont follow gardai home and approach their wives and children off duty questioning them about their work.

    Some of these hardhard protesters are the worst kind of people you would ever meet.


  • #79
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    Chief--- wrote: »
    RTE reporters dont follow gardai home and approach their wives and children off duty questioning them about their work.

    Or worse...


  • #80
    vote4pedro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    cushtac wrote: »
    Or worse...

    Have these protestors really been following Gardai home? And what do you mean by or worse? Not having a go like, just hadn't heard of anything and I'd have thought Gardai being stalked...and worse I'd have heard about?

    Hard to tell who'se the biggest eejit in the above posted video. The protestor is acting like a spa, trying to provoke a reaction and being a smartarse, but then the Garda starts acting like a kid with his G G G Garda schtik and threatening to take the camera away without reason. Doesn't exactly seem like a great meeting of minds.


  • #81
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    vote4pedro wrote: »
    Have these protestors really been following Gardai home? And what do you mean by or worse? Not having a go like, just hadn't heard of anything and I'd have thought Gardai being stalked...and worse I'd have heard about?

    Yes they have, as have other scumbags. By worse I mean threats, intimidation and attacks on people's property.


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  • #82
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    a mate of mine wont go to his car in uniform incase they slash his tires... heard that its happened to a few gardai in his station...


  • #83
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    Chief--- wrote: »
    RTE reporters dont antagonise the gardai into arresting them so they can file complaints and civil suits.

    RTE reporters dont follow gardai home and approach their wives and children off duty questioning them about their work.

    Some of these hardhard protesters are the worst kind of people you would ever meet.

    when has that ever happened (in ireland)?


  • #84
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

    Sounds like a case of a man being wrongly accused to me considering we do believe in innocent until proven guilty dont we? Maybe we should have a tribunal and see if certain people on the day perjured themselves in court and contaminated video evidence? the juries decision would seem to indicate that this may have happened.

    some people can watch someone being beaten while already prone on the ground and still acquit a guard, they think guards can do no wrong, there biased, that's entirely the problem.


  • #85
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    if the guy in the petrol station video, would just admitted he was a guard there be no story.


  • #86
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    some people can watch someone being beaten while already prone on the ground and still acquit a guard, they think guards can do no wrong, there biased, that's entirely the problem.

    So what your saying is you dont believe in innocent until proven guilty? Tell me, in kangaroo courts do you carry our the exacution as well?
    lostexpectation wrote: »
    when has that ever happened (in ireland)?

    Are you ****ing kidding me? Are you that niave and arrogant that you think such things A, dont happen and B, that you would automatically know everytime it does happen? How would the press even know unless it results in a trial big enough on the day to merit a story?


  • #87
    vote4pedro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    Karlitosway1978 wrote: »
    So what your saying is you dont believe in innocent until proven guilty? Tell me, in kangaroo courts do you carry our the exacution as well?



    Are you ****ing kidding me? Are you that niave and arrogant that you think such things A, dont happen and B, that you would automatically know everytime it does happen? How would the press even know unless it results in a trial big enough on the day to merit a story?

    No Garda on here refers anecdotaly to a person they've arrested as a criminal, despite the fact they're innocent? I've only had a quick read through a few threads in here but could have sworn I've seen people who presumably have not (perhaps yet) been found guilty of a crime being referred to as louts, scumbags etc. And quite rightly too if they were acting that way. How can you actually say what the way that Garda acted in a way anything other than as an absolute knacker.

    As for naive, hearsay about how Gardai are victimised off duty, what would you say if in another forum someone (perhaps one of the protestors we're talking about) said it was naive to deny that Gardaí were threatening them, beating them or causing them problems in some other way, or acting in an inappropriate way. Would you not then say that some sort of proof would be handy to back up any such claims?


  • #88
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    vote4pedro wrote: »
    No Garda on here refers anecdotaly to a person they've arrested as a criminal, despite the fact they're innocent?

    The Gardai who arrested somebody will know if they committed the crime or not and if they are truly guilty.

    Whether they are convicted of it or not is a different story and that is down to the circus that is the district or circuit courts.


  • #89
    vote4pedro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    Chief--- wrote: »
    The Gardai who arrested somebody will know if they committed the crime or not and if they are truly guilty.

    Whether they are convicted of it or not is a different story and that is down to the circus that is the district or circuit courts.

    So a Garda is the only true judge of innocence or guilt? :eek: Not taking in to account the huge intricacies of law?
    And the court are a circus, except for when they acquit the likes of Robocop, in which case their decision should be respected?


  • #90
    Turner
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    vote4pedro wrote: »
    So a Garda is the only true judge of innocence or guilt? :

    No. In ireland a judge and jury is.

    However a Garda can say to an injured party - listen i know yer man stabbed you because i saw him, thats why i arrested him and sure you saw me - but he is getting off because of a minute piece of evidnece was lost or left out or the judge directed the jury to find him innocent.


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  • #91
    vote4pedro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    But a protestor who saw Robocop in action that day could say the exact same thing?


This discussion has been closed.
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