ATC recruitment with IAA

jd83 · 31-01-2009 7:05pm

First one was easy. Last 2 didnt finish them. I have the same type of tests before and I didnt finish them but scored well. So not to bothered by it. I didnt guess questions if I didnt know I left it blank. So im nearly 90 percent sure any i answered were correct. Im pretty sure it goes on accuracy so if you done less but got them all right you score higher.

JonnyK · 31-01-2009 9:31pm

I pretty much feel the same as JD.

Got a bit worried earlier when I read that people had answered all questions but have since read that most aptitude tests are designed in that they are impossible to finish on time - I concentrated on trying to answer correctly rather than guessing.

On the other hand, there are probably lots of people that did well at maths because, as somene mentioned earlier, they studied engineering, for example, in university. I feel I did the best I could and if that wasn't good enough so be it - those who get interviews deserve to be there.

I don't think the test was that difficult, it was defo easier than a civil service exam I did a few years back for an executive officer position whereby the numerical questions consisted of maths problems, percentages etc which I was muck at.

I'd imagine many people did well at this and the competition was pretty tough. I initially was cautiously confident about getting an interview but that has receded a bit since. Probably best to prepare for the worst and anything else is a bonus!

jd83 · 31-01-2009 10:55pm

ah well all we can do is wait. I know its a competition and everything but it would be nice to see people on here getting through to the next round. If anyone gets their result make sure to post up here and ill do the same.

Jim236 · 31-01-2009 11:30pm

Starting to worry a bit now. I got the first and last test done np and within the time limit, but I didn't finish the numerical within the time limit and had to guess a few. I'll be kicking myself if I don't get the interview because I guessed those few...

electron · 31-01-2009 11:36pm

now that i think about it, im pretty sure there's no negative marking. wish i had thought of that one earlier.

jess_cork · 01-02-2009 3:33pm

I asked one of the HR girls if there was negative marking and they said no. I suppose it is possible that they have an accuracy stat too but would think it is unlikely. Good luck everyone.

Pigdog · 01-02-2009 3:37pm

Well done Jess, for thinking to ask. And I'm glad to hear it too, I was getting a bit worried about the couple that I did guess on.

When did you sit them? What did you think of them? And how do you feel you did?

jess_cork · 01-02-2009 4:56pm

I hope I did ok but think I'll wait to see how the results pan out before I say too much! I was supposed to be on at 4pm Friday but got caught in some bad flooding so did it on Saturday morning instead. Won't be too long before the results are out though so that's good, she mentioned Tuesday next week as her aim to get the e-mails out to everyone.

Pigdog · 01-02-2009 5:04pm

Oooh, some more good info there Jess. You've been holding out on us!!

Just to clarify, do you mean tuesday 3rd or tuesday 10th? If it's the tenth then it's only about a week's notice for the interviews.

Jim236 · 01-02-2009 5:19pm

Pigdog wrote: »

Oooh, some more good info there Jess. You've been holding out on us!! Just to clarify, do you mean tuesday 3rd or tuesday 10th? If it's the tenth then it's only about a week's notice for the interviews.

Interviews start on 23rd Feb, so thats 2 weeks if its the 10th which is long enough like.

jess_cork · 01-02-2009 5:25pm

Sorry, I meant the 10th. She did say give or take a day or two though.

Pigdog · 01-02-2009 6:10pm

Yeah, you're right Jim, I downloaded a recuitment process pdf file, and it says the interviews start on the 16th, but I've just checked the IAA website and it has been changed to the week starting 23rd!

Hermes5 · 01-02-2009 6:13pm

Know a guy who's dad works there, 30 years on shift work and no way out!! They dont want anybody who isnt prepared to work full shift!:eek: Also you need to be v.good at touch typing taking live messages off air!:(

electron · 02-02-2009 3:20am

sparkysrovers wrote: »

Two of them being hotties!

must have sat next to me :rolleyes:

Pigdog · 02-02-2009 9:08am

Hey Hermes, ask your mate's dad what the shift patterns are, would you? I'd love to know. I'm not really bothered about working shift.

Oh, and melonstar (post #125) ask your dad too (if you're still following this thread) And if anyone else knows any details about the actual day-to-day workings of the place please post. I think there's quite a lot here who would be interested.

Cheers

Harian · 02-02-2009 3:37pm

I'm sure I'll sound like a right dick by saying this, but maybe I can speak up on behalf of one or two others here.

I feel I need to remind everyone that this IS a competition. There are very few positions for a lot of applicants.

I really don't feel that it's fair to those of us who make the effort to conduct our own research into this position to have others asking their friend's dad, or whatever, about the job, then have them post all of the info online for everyone to see, including those who can't be bothered to spend a few minutes researching the position themselves. I know some of you are genuinely interested in learning more, but have a little patience; if you make it to the next stage (interviews), all of the roster info will be clearly explained to you. If you don't make it to the next stage, it won't matter either way.

I don't mean to be an as$hole but it's a little disheartening, I guess, after some of us have made the effort to carefully investigate the position before applying. It seems a little lazy to get someone else to do the research and post it online. Also, you've got to remember that a huge amount of people are reading this thread, not just the few who are regularly posting.

I guess I see this as the same as talking about the aptitude tests while they're ongoing. It's a no-no, and thankfully people stuck to that rule here (at least in the public forum). But just the same, people shouldn't share other types of info that could be of importance in later stages of recruitment.

We're not working together as a team yet guys, we're all in direct competition!

What I will say is, this job isn't a doddle. I think it's open knowledge to tell you: expect lots of unsociable hours, much night (midnight/4am onwards) and weekend work, you will be working Christmas Day, New Year's Eve, and many other holidays for many years to come.

Don't think that you will get to spend these days at home with your family after working in the position for a year or two.

As I think someone else already mentioned, there are guys there 20 and 30 years who still don't get the benefit of having Christmas Day at home, though this will maybe change when some new people start out at the bottom of the ladder.

This is not the job that many people seem to think it is, and it's sad that these people may have scored well in the aptitude test, and will go on to gain entry to the training, then discover 1 or 2 years from now that they loathe the role and quit. Don't expect another hiring process any time soon!

Let's not give people like that the chance to take up a position that a few of us really want.

I hope I've supplied the general info people were wondering, without anyone needing to be more specific.

And again, my apologies, but I really felt the need to say that after watching this thread for weeks.

Pigdog · 02-02-2009 6:30pm

Lighten up Harian.

There are quite a large number of different shift patterns used by many bodies providing 24 hour coverage, I was just asking for the specific pattern used here if anyone happened to know! Please, tell me, how this sort of information would give anyone a competitive advantage?

(I suppose you first got hot under the collar when someone mentioned that there were pens provided at the tests, or the specific seating arrangement during them too. Because it's effectively the same thing. It's unimportant, incidental information that's nice to know.)

And I know you know it won't give anyone a competitive advantage because you said

if you make it to the next stage (interviews), all of the roster info will be clearly explained to you.

I'd have agreed with you if there were people asking questions like 'What is the IAA?', 'What does HF stand for?' or 'What should I say to impress them during the interview?' But you'll notice that there have been no questions like that at all. That's because everyone appears to have done their own research. Myself included.

Take a couple of minutes and un-twist those knickers of yours.

Jim236 · 02-02-2009 7:17pm

Pigdog wrote: »

Lighten up Harian.

There are quite a large number of different shift patterns used by many bodies providing 24 hour coverage, I was just asking for the specific pattern used here if anyone happened to know! Please, tell me, how this sort of information would give anyone a competitive advantage?

(I suppose you first got hot under the collar when someone mentioned that there were pens provided at the tests, or the specific seating arrangement during them too. Because it's effectively the same thing. It's unimportant, incidental information that's nice to know.)

And I know you know it won't give anyone a competitive advantage because you said

I'd have agreed with you if there were people asking questions like 'What is the IAA?', 'What does HF stand for?' or 'What should I say to impress them during the interview?' But you'll notice that there have been no questions like that at all. That's because everyone appears to have done their own research. Myself included.

Take a couple of minutes and un-twist those knickers of yours.

+1, well said.

EI573 · 02-02-2009 8:27pm

I'm not an applicant; (actually I'm already with the IAA) but I think I can speak quite neutrally here. I must admit I mostly agree with Harian on this one.

I can see both sides of the 'disagreement', if it can even be called that, but I would recommend that people do their own research on this one, even on trivial seemingly non-important aspects of the job.

I think that's where the issue begins; it's very easy for much more info beyond rosters to be shared. The "any other info on the job" part of the request. This may seem a little O.T.T. right now, but remembering previous recruitment processes, the less discussed with other applicants in advance of the very final stage, the better. Trust me!

On another note, there have been quite a few ridiculous questions, to the extent that I assumed most people didn't even know what HF was. I posted earlier in this thread and received several PMs of that nature!

It's only a couple of pages back that some people were wondering when positions would become available in Dublin.. :rolleyes:

I'm assuming that none of you guys have gone through IAA interviews before.

All I'll say is good luck to all! And there is an 'i' in this team [teaim?]. :P

Pigdog · 02-02-2009 9:16pm

Fair enough EI573,

And no, it's not really a disagreement. But I should apologise to Harian for being a bit ratty in my last post. Sorry man.:)

Anyway, I don't feel that asking about shift patterns is an unfair question. There is no information available out there on the specific patterns utilized. The only way to find out is to know someone who works there. And I'm willing to bet that most applicants don't have that luxury. Does that mean that the few applicants who have access to someone working there are now more likely to get the position because they're aware of the specific patterns? No, of course not. That's because there is no advantage to be had from this information.

Harian made the point (and I agree with him) that there may be some applicants who are less keen that others. And these may take interview places, that otherwise, some more keen applicants may have had. And those less keen may drop out when they realise it's not a walk in the park. And that would certainly be a shame.

So, if more information about the unsavoury side of the job was made more readily available, wouldn't it have helped to discourage those less motivated from even applying in the first place.

All that is known about it, is that it will be shift work. Period. But shift work can mean any scheduled working time span 'shifted' from the normal 9-5. All I was asking for was more information on the specifics of this.

And as I said already, I apologise to Harian for being snotty before. And I'll try my best to keep it a discussion and not an disagreement!

But I'd like to discuss this more. I'm open-minded enough to change my mind, if valid points are made. So, please, if you have that killer bit of logic that I'm missing, don't keep it to yourself!

And EI573,

Trust me!

doesn't quite convince me! You may well be another applicant trying to deceive me!!

I'm not an applicant

Just what an applicant would say!!

EI573 · 02-02-2009 9:58pm

Pigdog wrote: »

Anyway, I don't feel that asking about shift patterns is an unfair question.

No, I agree with you on that. Asking about shifts is fine. I will say that there is info available in sources other than asking people who work there..

The only issue I see here is when those with connections to the centre (as in people whose dads work there, or whatever) begin to supply much more info than was requested of them. And that's a natural process.

People who begin to supply info on the day-to-day workings of the place, are also supplying info to those who know very little about this job, and this could allow them to look very informed at interview stage, you know? I have a feeling that's what Haran was getting at.
(Just take a look at the thread views. 170 replies. 8,166 views. A lot of people viewing but not writing!)

Anyway, I feel a little silly for getting into this. Just felt I should point out that sharing info on seemingly unimportant stuff isn't always a benefit and has a tendency to reveal more than was requested.

Maybe when the recruitment process is over and done with, I'll share my personal experience of previous interview stuff and why I'm inclined to side with the wary on this one.

Pigdog wrote: »

Harian made the point (and I agree with him) that there may be some applicants who are less keen that others. And these may take interview places, that otherwise, some more keen applicants may have had. And those less keen may drop out when they realise it's not a walk in the park. And that would certainly be a shame.

Again, I agree with both of you, I understand both sides. I'd just hope that people with a lack of true interest will be whittled out at an early stage, and the less informed they are at interview stage, the better for all!

I think it was already mentioned, but all of the info you guys are seeking will be provided at interview.

Pigdog wrote: »

And as I said already, I apologise to Harian for being snotty before. And I'll try my best to keep it a discussion and not an disagreement! But I'd like to discuss this more. I'm open-minded enough to change my mind, if valid points are made. So please, if you have that killer bit of logic that I'm missing, post a reply!

I'm not going to get into supplying logic (

), other than, it's not a bad number. It's NOT ATC however, and could be very boring to younger people, I imagine, particularly if they're people who are interested in a career in ATC.

I don't think I'm "giving anything away" by saying that this is not a position which requires the skills seen as necessary to ATC. There is no snappy thinking or quick decisions needed.

That seems to have been the mistake assumed by many here from the beginning. Having this topic in a thread entitled "ATC recruitment" probably hasn't helped. I assume a huge amount of those who applied will feel deceived when they learn more of the position, but it's up to each person to conduct their own research.

I will say that this job involves simply relaying messages prepared by another facility to aircraft. You will not be preparing these messages/clearances/etc. You will simply be reading them to the aircraft.

I don't think anyone should opt for this position if it isn't one they genuinely seek. In other words, for those who are striving to CONTROL aircraft, this isn't the job for you. It's a very, very different environment to ATC. You cannot transfer to an ATC centre if you're bored of this position in two years time. It is a completely different job.

To make that clearer, you can't train in this position, then expect to transfer to Dublin Tower or Shannon Centre in a year or two or five. It is a different job. As different as baggage loader to pilot.

(I know a few of you PM'd me with questions of transferring to ATC, so there's my answer)

I would be disappointed to see people being lucky enough to get the training and this job (R/O), then drop out when regular ATC recruitment opens again, and as I said, I'm not even an applicant. But it's something I could definitely see happening, just from going by this thread.

I do 'have a feeling', shall we say, that there will be regular ATC training positions available again in the near-future..

Watch that space.

Pigdog wrote: »

And EI573,doesn't quite convince me! You may well be another applicant trying to deceive me!! :pJust what an applicant would say!!

Haha.. no. I'm too old to apply again.. (Not that there's an age limit!)

Either way, good luck to those of you with a genuine interest in THIS [R/O] job.

I do feel the IAA should've been a little clearer when they advertised it, with a notice saying "NOT an ATC position", but honestly I don't think they expected 5% of the interest it has. (Recessions and all of that..)

I would guess they were probably advertising to the radio officers already present across Ireland, of which there are many (they should've gone direct entry with this, IMO), and I think it will be a very tough competition, providing those who already have the appropriate ratings make it through the aptitude test. Time shall tell..

I'll shut up now before I supply far more info than I intended and sound like a huge hypocrite.

Pigdog · 02-02-2009 10:17pm

Yeah, I can see your point. I suppose the issue came up when I felt that asking about shift rotas was being shot down as asking too much. But I can take your point about it possibly being a starting point for a torrent of very useful information to someone who isn't preparred to put in any amount of research.

Maybe that was what Harian was getting at.

Anyway, Thanks for your posts Echo India.

JonnyK · 03-02-2009 1:50am

Hey all,

I have to agree with Harian and EI here but tiss always enjoyable to read about a good and productive debate. It's not right that people should enjoy the fruits of our inquisitive minds by merely popping online every now and again to read these threads and jot down notes basically doing sweet f-all to learn about the job themselves.

I think it's fair to say - and I'm hoping that this is the case - that those with a real interest in the job will be the ones that carry out the most research and that this information and their enthusiasm will show through at interview stage. Thinking about the latter, lots of us are getting a bit ahead of ourselves as I'm sure there'll be dissapointment for many when the aptitude tests results are revealed.

I do agree that it's a real shame that many people will be called to interview that aren't that arsed about the job and some may be taken on but it's an unfair world that we live. Also, I believe a panel will be formed so if some do drop out when reality kicks in, those further down the panel list will be called. I've only started reading up on it and I'm quite excited about the prospect of working as a RO but I'm trying to keep the mind and imagination in check until the results next week.

Here's believing...

JonnyK · 03-02-2009 1:56am

PS

In a totaly unrelated subject, Robbie was treated like sh*t by Rafa and I wish him the best at Spurs. Why we've sold a striker without getting a replacement defies belief but Benitez certainly works in myserious ways.

My 2009 wish is for the Pool to miraculously make it title number 19 and for me to miraculously be one of the RO 12!!

Redderneck · 03-02-2009 1:11pm

EI573 wrote: »

No, I agree with you on that. Asking about shifts is fine. I will say that there is info available in sources other than asking people who work there..

The only issue I see here is when those with connections to the centre (as in people whose dads work there, or whatever) begin to supply much more info than was requested of them. And that's a natural process.

People who begin to supply info on the day-to-day workings of the place, are also supplying info to those who know very little about this job, and this could allow them to look very informed at interview stage, you know? I have a feeling that's what Haran was getting at.
(Just take a look at the thread views. 170 replies. 8,166 views. A lot of people viewing but not writing!)

Anyway, I feel a little silly for getting into this. Just felt I should point out that sharing info on seemingly unimportant stuff isn't always a benefit and has a tendency to reveal more than was requested.

Maybe when the recruitment process is over and done with, I'll share my personal experience of previous interview stuff and why I'm inclined to side with the wary on this one.

Again, I agree with both of you, I understand both sides. I'd just hope that people with a lack of true interest will be whittled out at an early stage, and the less informed they are at interview stage, the better for all!

I think it was already mentioned, but all of the info you guys are seeking will be provided at interview.

I'm not going to get into supplying logic ( ), other than, it's not a bad number. It's NOT ATC however, and could be very boring to younger people, I imagine, particularly if they're people who are interested in a career in ATC.

I don't think I'm "giving anything away" by saying that this is not a position which requires the skills seen as necessary to ATC. There is no snappy thinking or quick decisions needed.

That seems to have been the mistake assumed by many here from the beginning. Having this topic in a thread entitled "ATC recruitment" probably hasn't helped. I assume a huge amount of those who applied will feel deceived when they learn more of the position, but it's up to each person to conduct their own research.

I will say that this job involves simply relaying messages prepared by another facility to aircraft. You will not be preparing these messages/clearances/etc. You will simply be reading them to the aircraft.

I don't think anyone should opt for this position if it isn't one they genuinely seek. In other words, for those who are striving to CONTROL aircraft, this isn't the job for you. It's a very, very different environment to ATC. You cannot transfer to an ATC centre if you're bored of this position in two years time. It is a completely different job.

To make that clearer, you can't train in this position, then expect to transfer to Dublin Tower or Shannon Centre in a year or two or five. It is a different job. As different as baggage loader to pilot.

(I know a few of you PM'd me with questions of transferring to ATC, so there's my answer)

I would be disappointed to see people being lucky enough to get the training and this job (R/O), then drop out when regular ATC recruitment opens again, and as I said, I'm not even an applicant. But it's something I could definitely see happening, just from going by this thread.

I do 'have a feeling', shall we say, that there will be regular ATC training positions available again in the near-future..
Watch that space.

Haha.. no. I'm too old to apply again.. (Not that there's an age limit!)

Either way, good luck to those of you with a genuine interest in THIS [R/O] job.

I do feel the IAA should've been a little clearer when they advertised it, with a notice saying "NOT an ATC position", but honestly I don't think they expected 5% of the interest it has. (Recessions and all of that..)

I would guess they were probably advertising to the radio officers already present across Ireland, of which there are many (they should've gone direct entry with this, IMO), and I think it will be a very tough competition, providing those who already have the appropriate ratings make it through the aptitude test. Time shall tell..

I'll shut up now before I supply far more info than I intended and sound like a huge hypocrite.

Making lots of sense. In my naivete, I had not realised there would be so many qualified ROs out there. They'll be very hard to compete with at interview stage, that's for sure. They have already proven an interest & aptitude far beyond somone not qualified. Odd, as you say, that in the circumstances a direct entry approach was not taken.

Ah well - as a non-qualified applicant, my diminishing hopes remain alive - at least for now!!!

Jim236 · 03-02-2009 9:51pm

EI573 wrote: »

No, I agree with you on that. Asking about shifts is fine. I will say that there is info available in sources other than asking people who work there..

The only issue I see here is when those with connections to the centre (as in people whose dads work there, or whatever) begin to supply much more info than was requested of them. And that's a natural process.

People who begin to supply info on the day-to-day workings of the place, are also supplying info to those who know very little about this job, and this could allow them to look very informed at interview stage, you know? I have a feeling that's what Haran was getting at.

So why not aim that point at people who are making one off replies with such info and who haven't even applied for the positions themselves. I think most people here realise this whole process is a competition at the end of the day and don't need to be reminded of it time and time again as several posters here insist on doing.

EI573 wrote: »

(Just take a look at the thread views. 170 replies. 8,166 views. A lot of people viewing but not writing!)

If I wanted I could refresh this topic 100 times and it would have 100 more views, i.e. most of the views are from the same people that have been posting in this thread, not 8,166 different people. Plus before there was even a Shanwick vacancy this topic had over 3,500 views.

EI573 wrote: »

That seems to have been the mistake assumed by many here from the beginning. Having this topic in a thread entitled "ATC recruitment" probably hasn't helped.

Yeah but this topic isn't the application form, all it is is to discuss the recruitment process, as you say its up to them to do their research on the job, tough sh*t if they didn't.

EI573 wrote: »

I will say that this job involves simply relaying messages prepared by another facility to aircraft. You will not be preparing these messages/clearances/etc. You will simply be reading them to the aircraft.

You're contradicting yourself now. This is exactly the kind of info I'd expect someone NOT to give. Its information you can get on the IAA's website and Wikipedia as well as other sources, but not information that anyone would know, i.e. you have to do research to know it, and its information that would help you in the interview.

EI573 wrote: »

I do 'have a feeling', shall we say, that there will be regular ATC training positions available again in the near-future..
Watch that space.

They might be advertising in March from what I heard from someone who has a relative working in the IAA.

EI573 wrote: »

I would guess they were probably advertising to the radio officers already present across Ireland, of which there are many (they should've gone direct entry with this, IMO), and I think it will be a very tough competition, providing those who already have the appropriate ratings make it through the aptitude test. Time shall tell..

Sorry if this seems a bit arrogant because you're clearly in a better position to have an opinion on this than I am but, how would it? The way I see it even if someone does have a radio operating license from being a pilot, working on a ship etc they wouldn't have the training for Shanwick, its hardly like an airline advertising for direct entry A320 captains who've already been trained on the aircraft. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I'd like to think that as a young person with a lot of interest in Shanwick and it's operations and having been down in Ballygireen but who isn't a RO that I'd have some chance at getting one of the 12 positions.

yamal/UCJT · 04-02-2009 3:38pm

For those worried about RO lurking in the long grass ...Fear not.

I did the MRGC many years ago. I have literally hundreds of communications and electrical courses under my belt. My father would have trained a lot of those currently working at shanwick during his time at what was Cork RTC. I have passed almost 20 years in every ocean and patch of water on earth including the Weddell Sea. To blow my trumpet a little more I can speak fluent French and passable Russian. However here is the big prob. I never did an aptitude test in my life. I got about 6 of those non verbal reasoning tests done. I guessed the rest. I met an old friend at the same venue. He had the same prob as me. I guess we just didn't have the aptitude ! I am off to Berlin on Saturday a job hunting as I know I will not be getting called here. For those young men looking for a little bit of info about the job I say go for it. Do everything you can to give you an edge. I didn't. I regret it.

Good Luck

de UCJT va

Redderneck · 04-02-2009 3:42pm

Best of luck in Berlin UCJT.

Pigdog · 04-02-2009 5:58pm

All the best UCJT.

I'm not nearly as (quietly) confident that I might get called to an interview as I was before. Hmmm

The reason? Well, check out this link and do the tests yourself.

http://www.ase-solutions.co.uk/goto.php?sess=x372%7Cu35%7Cp158%7Cn144%7Cc35%7Cl0%7Cg0%7Cd0&pg=Take_a_practice_test

I did, and I wasn't exactly impressed with my results. Although I do think the sample ones above are a lot harder than the ones we did last week.

Maybe UCJT was just more honest with himself during the tests than I was. I dunno... I'll still wait to hear, but...

EI573 · 04-02-2009 8:51pm

I'm certainly not here to get into an argument (though it seems some are..), so I'll only say one thing to Jim; there are several people I personally know (and probably many more I don't know), who have applied, who certainly have impressive experience very relative to this position. But everyone who has applied has a chance (which is why there are aptitude tests, I guess. To make it fair and even to all).

I'm not going to comment further on Jim's posting.

There's less than a week to wait now, so best of luck to all applicants.

Yamal/UCJT, I wouldn't go fleeing the country just yet, mate. You never know. Cross those fingers for accurate guessing!

Personally, I'm not a fan of aptitude tests for this precise reason. They can have the ability to filter out ideal applicants.

The younger half of the population - either still in or fresh out of school, tend to fly these tests as they're used to using math, etc, on a daily basis, while the older folks with years of experience probably haven't tuned into the required skills in years. Doesn't mean they wouldn't be ideal for the training and job though.

But that's a debate for a different thread, and not one I feel like partaking in further.

QRT, 73s de EI573.

ATC recruitment with IAA

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