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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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    #3422
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    steamengine wrote: »
    +1.......and there is no point in them denying their lobby / whingefest here. They can take all the cheap bus trips they want, but then advocating InterCity services are no longer necessary is really off the wall and in fact irresponsible. One big freeze like two years ago and mark my words - they will be seen piling back on the trains. Some of us like the added comfort of trains - after all two or three times a 'peanuts' fare is still good value ! :D

    Really, we are supposed to spend 10's of millions in subsidies a year to maintain trains, in case it snows for a few days, something that happens about once every 10 years!!!!

    I've really heard all the excuses now!

    I head to Cork once a month, up till last year that was on the train at more then €70 per return or €878 per year. By switching to Aircoach it now costs just €216, a saving of €662 per year.

    Or to put it another way, enough money for a holiday to the US!!!!

    Even with Irish Rails new 3 days online fares, it costs €602 per year, by taking Aircoach I'm saving €386 per year. Enough for a couple of Ryanair flights to various locations in Europe!!

    Certainly not peanuts, nor good value.

    How anyone can say that the private bus operators aren't good for public transport is crazy or seriously biased. The private bus operators are offering a service that is far more frequent, far more convenient (late night services) and significantly cheaper.


  • Options
    #3423
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Where would Dublin be without the Dart, buried in extra buses and drowned in diesel smog.

    Foggy sorry but what part of bk's post didn't you read - but did quote in your post: (just for your information I have emboldened the part that makes your post just a tad ridiculous, here is the quote from BK you made your comment about
    bk wrote: »
    Ignoring cost, cars have the greatest flexibility as it brings you door to door.

    With public transport, buses are more flexible then trains, as they are much cheaper to set up and run (and therefore often are more frequent) and can get closer to where people actually want to go.

    That isn't to say rail doesn't have it place, it certainly does, as mass transit into and around large cities (No Galway, Limerick, Cork, aren't large cities). It has no place in rural transport. Far to inflexible.


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    #3424
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    steamengine wrote: »
    +1.......and there is no point in them denying their lobby / whingefest here. They can take all the cheap bus trips they want, but then advocating InterCity services are no longer necessary is really off the wall and in fact irresponsible.

    Yes but if there are nearly 40+ EXPRESS Buses a DAY between Dublin and Galway ( each way) and if each can carry 50 persons then the capacity on that route is around 2000 persons each way.

    A three car 22000 can carry what?? 190 persons or 4 buses worth??

    There are 9 trains services Dublin Galway per day ( each way)

    7 of those have only 3 cars ( 7 x 190 = 1330 persons)
    2 of those have 6 cars (2 x 2 x 190 = 760 persons)

    Bus and IE capacity about the same.

    I invite correction on those numbers of course.

    Dublin Galway buses provide more capacity than Dublin Galway trains do.


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    #3425
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    SB figures are borne out by the Irish Rail report into intercity travel last year.

    It found the mode share for the Dublin to Galway route in 2011 to be: 50% car, 25% bus, 25% train.

    FYI the mode share for Cork, in 2011 (prior to the launch of Aricaco and GoBE direct services) was: 50% car, 10% bus, 40% train.

    It will be interesting to see what this figure will look like in future.


  • Options
    #3426
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,675 ✭✭✭serfboard


    steamengine wrote: »
    +1.......and there is no point in them denying their lobby / whingefest here.
    There's no lobby here. I don't represent any bus company and AFAIK, other posters on here don't either.
    steamengine wrote: »
    They can take all the cheap bus trips they want, but then advocating InterCity services are no longer necessary is really off the wall and in fact irresponsible.
    If you take time to read the posts here you will see that no-one is doing that (or most people aren't). Train is in fact, my preferred mode of transport and I would like to see better (faster, cheaper and more frequent) InterCity services, but that won't happen for a long time - if ever.

    What I and others are opposed to is this daft notion of a line between Galway and Sligo serving no city and meandering its way all over the place.
    steamengine wrote: »
    Some of us like the added comfort of trains
    Fair point. Trains are a very comfortable way to travel.
    steamengine wrote: »
    after all two or three times a 'peanuts' fare is still good value !
    Not in my opinion, and more importantly, not in the opinion of thousands of passengers who are switching from the trains to the buses.

    Do you never ask yourself why people are doing this? Because the new InterCity buses (Bus Eireann/GoBus/Citylink/Aircoach/ etc.) are very comfortable, have toilets and WiFi on board, are cheaper, more frequent and almost as fast as the trains. Plus, they'll drop you in the city centre or the Airport without having to change.


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    #3427
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    At the end of the day on most routes there is room for both modes of travel (I'll hold back on the WRC).

    Frankly people ought to be grateful we do have both - it fosters competition and forces companies to up their game.

    Bus and rail are not mutually exclusive.


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    #3428
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    7 of those have only 3 cars ( 7 x 190 = 1330 persons)
    2 of those have 6 cars (2 x 2 x 190 = 760 persons

    5 services are 6 cars
    4 services are 3 cars

    2660 seats each way bwteen Dublin-Galway, now Friday and Saturdys have much higher number.


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    #3429
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    bk wrote: »
    Ignoring cost, cars have the greatest flexibility as it brings you door to door.

    With public transport, buses are more flexible then trains, as they are much cheaper to set up and run (and therefore often are more frequent) and can get closer to where people actually want to go.

    That isn't to say rail doesn't have it place, it certainly does, as mass transit into and around large cities (No Galway, Limerick, Cork, aren't large cities). It has no place in rural transport. Far to inflexible.

    Indeed rail does have it's place and on Intercity too, which you've left out.


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    #3430
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    serfboard wrote: »
    There's no lobby here. I don't represent any bus company and AFAIK, other posters on here don't either.

    If you take time to read the posts here you will see that no-one is doing that (or most people aren't). Train is in fact, my preferred mode of transport and I would like to see better (faster, cheaper and more frequent) InterCity services, but that won't happen for a long time - if ever.

    What I and others are opposed to is this daft notion of a line between Galway and Sligo serving no city and meandering its way all over the place.


    Fair point. Trains are a very comfortable way to travel.


    Not in my opinion, and more importantly, not in the opinion of thousands of passengers who are switching from the trains to the buses.

    Do you never ask yourself why people are doing this? Because the new InterCity buses (Bus Eireann/GoBus/Citylink/Aircoach/ etc.) are very comfortable, have toilets and WiFi on board, are cheaper, more frequent and almost as fast as the trains. Plus, they'll drop you in the city centre or the Airport without having to change.

    What other term would you use instead of 'lobby' to describe posts which constantly extol the virtues of a certain bus company continually on boards and are constantly 'thanked' by the same anti-rail posters. Do you not consider that is a lobby - after all it is a public forum ?

    I agree in general with the rest of your post.


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    #3431
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    steamengine wrote: »
    Indeed rail does have it's place and on Intercity too, which you've left out.

    I'm ambivalent about intercity rail in Ireland. I'm yet to be convinced that it is a most have, but I'm open to being convinced.

    Intercity rail in Ireland is slow and expensive. Fair enough if it is profitable or at least break even, then of course it should remain.

    However I'm not sure it justifies 10's if not 100's of millions in grants and subsidies each year.

    What would happen if there was a strike with intercity rail in the morning? Would the economy collapse? Nope, you will still be able to get to every city in Ireland in 3 hours or less and for a third of the price of rail.

    There is nothing Irish Rail currently offer that the private bus companies can't offer too for one third of the price and no cost to the taxpayer.

    So yes, I'm not convinced by it. If you or someone else can offer a good reason why it should continue to be subsidised to the tune of 10's of million each year, then I'm totally open to hearing it?


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    #3432
    The Idyl Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭The Idyl Race


    steamengine wrote: »
    What other term would you use instead of 'lobby' to describe posts which constantly extol the virtues of a certain bus company continually on boards and are constantly 'thanked' by the same anti-rail posters. Do you not consider that is a lobby - after all it is a public forum ?

    Two sayings and true ones, First one, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then chances are it is a duck.

    Second one, my own personal Occam's Razor with internet posts.

    Qui Bono?


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    #3433
    The Idyl Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭The Idyl Race


    bk wrote: »
    I'm ambivalent about intercity rail in Ireland. I'm yet to be convinced that it is a most have, but I'm open to being convinced.

    Intercity rail in Ireland is slow and expensive. Fair enough if it is profitable or at least break even, then of course it should remain.

    However I'm not sure it justifies 10's if not 100's of millions in grants and subsidies each year.

    What would happen if there was a strike with intercity rail in the morning? Would the economy collapse? Nope, you will still be able to get to every city in Ireland in 3 hours or less and for a third of the price of rail.

    There is nothing Irish Rail currently offer that the private bus companies can't offer too for one third of the price and no cost to the taxpayer.

    So yes, I'm not convinced by it. If you or someone else can offer a good reason why it should continue to be subsidised to the tune of 10's of million each year, then I'm totally open to hearing it?

    I think there is far more chance of me becoming a screaming homosexual than of you being persuaded about rail bk..


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    #3434
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    bk wrote: »
    I'm ambivalent about intercity rail in Ireland. I'm yet to be convinced that it is a most have, but I'm open to being convinced.

    Intercity rail in Ireland is slow and expensive. Fair enough if it is profitable or at least break even, then of course it should remain.

    However I'm not sure it justifies 10's if not 100's of millions in grants and subsidies each year.

    What would happen if there was a strike with intercity rail in the morning? Would the economy collapse? Nope, you will still be able to get to every city in Ireland in 3 hours or less and for a third of the price of rail.

    There is nothing Irish Rail currently offer that the private bus companies can't offer too for one third of the price and no cost to the taxpayer.

    So yes, I'm not convinced by it. If you or someone else can offer a good reason why it should continue to be subsidised to the tune of 10's of million each year, then I'm totally open to hearing it?

    Ambivalence is an understatement - it's curious how rail is the one you deem unnecessary for Intercity travel - my opinion is that a lot of these buses are unnecessary and only exist to cream the top of the national transport cake. They are not interested in any of the less attractive provincial routes.

    What could eventually be detrimental for the country in decades to come is that due to any resulting line closures the infrastructure will be lost for good. People advocating that Intercity rail is now superfluous are only feeding into this way of thinking. What is actually needed is a pro-rail lobby to support the Irish railway system - just as everyone else seems to be doing for their particular cause.

    While rail journeys are currently more expensive than by bus - they are are relatively speaking good value at €50 return Dub/Cork as you've stated considering the extra all round comfort.

    As regards convincing you - I don't think that's possible - but a pro-rail lobby could do with your single minded thinking. :)


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    #3435
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    steamengine wrote: »
    Ambivalence is an understatement - it's curious how rail is the one you deem unnecessary for Intercity travel - my opinion is that a lot of these buses are unnecessary and only exist to cream the top of the national transport cake. They are not interested in any of the less attractive provincial routes.
    The train will NEVER be an option for the less attractive provincial rural routes and most are already well serviced by Bus Éireann under PSO contracts so privates laying on services would be a waste of their resources.
    What could eventually be detrimental for the country in decades to come is that due to any resulting line closures the infrastructure will be lost for good. People advocating that Intercity rail is now superfluous are only feeding into this way of thinking. What is actually needed is a pro-rail lobby to support the Irish railway system - just as everyone else seems to be doing for their particular cause.
    Those lines in danger of closing have not been of use or benefit for donkeys years and will never see any serious traffic in the future, just look at the WRC and see how useless that bit of infrastructure is compared to the massive cost to the state for something that will never contribute anything meaningful to the economy.
    While rail journeys are currently more expensive than by bus - they are are relatively speaking good value at €50 return Dub/Cork as you've stated considering the extra all round comfort.

    As regards convincing you - I don't think that's possible - but a pro-rail lobby could do with your single minded thinking. :)


    The current fares Dublin-Cork are €62 single, €73.50 day return, €79.50 open return.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=82519359#post82519359


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    #3436
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Yes but if there are nearly 40+ EXPRESS Buses a DAY between Dublin and Galway ( each way) and if each can carry 50 persons then the capacity on that route is around 2000 persons each way.

    A three car 22000 can carry what?? 190 persons or 4 buses worth??

    There are 9 trains services Dublin Galway per day ( each way)

    7 of those have only 3 cars ( 7 x 190 = 1330 persons)
    2 of those have 6 cars (2 x 2 x 190 = 760 persons)

    Bus and IE capacity about the same.

    I invite correction on those numbers of course.

    Dublin Galway buses provide more capacity than Dublin Galway trains do.

    Yep they are generally the facts ok - disappointing really from a rail perspective.


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    #3437
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    There are 2 rail lobbies. Platform11/RUI in the Dublin commuter belt and the WRC and their generously expensed county councillors in the West ( who have lost much of the rail alignment in Sligo over their 36 years) .

    Funny enough P11 and the WRC have not coalesced as P11 probably think, rightly, that the WRC are a pack of cultish lunatics in Claremorris. :)

    There is no Intercity lobby, however.....except of course between the Cities of Ennis and Sligo and there is no Intercounty Railway committee in Limerick/Cork either. The posters here are not lobbying for buses IMO but you are dealing with long entrenched usage of buses in Galway in particular.

    If I had to get a Belfast - Cork bus I'd think twice about it compared to the train but at 3 hours or less a bus will not heap the same indignities on me as Ryanair would so consider Ryanair the real problem here, they have made short haul travel a commodity. :)


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    #3438
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Well there you go folks, I believe the last three posts speak for themselves (steamengine and Idyl's that is).

    No actual effort to respond to my questions, instead simple name calling.

    It is ridiculous to accuse me of being some sort of bus lobby!!!! I've always been up front about who I am and what I do. I'm a software engineer, who works for a large US multinational IT company and I have never worked for and have no relations who have ever worked for any public transport company, bus, train, public or private.

    I'm quiet happy to prove that.

    My interest in public transport is from an environmental point of view and as an actual heavy user of public transport.

    However it is quiet clear that their is a rail lobby here or at least a group of rail "fans" who seem to want to cheer lead all rail, without any debate if it actually makes any sense or not.

    Steamengine, The Idyl Race, etc. would you like to tell us who you work for? And if you have any family members or others who work for Irish Rail? Also do you guys actually ever take public transport?

    I hear a lot of talk about the theory of rail travel from you guys, but I don't remember you ever actually mentioning any experiences of actually using it.
    Ambivalence is an understatement - it's curious how rail is the one you deem unnecessary for Intercity travel - my opinion is that a lot of these buses are unnecessary and only exist to cream the top of the national transport cake. They are not interested in any of the less attractive provincial routes.

    I think they are very necessary. They bring affordable and flexible public transport to the people. Without them we would all be paying IR more then €70 return and no service after 8pm between our two largest cities!! How can you justify that?

    BE carry twice as many passengers as IR. The private companies combined probably carry as many passengers as IR. We mostly talk about the premium bus services to Cork, Galway, etc. here, but every day private bus companies run all over the country from direct express services, to commuter services to very small scale (mini bus) local services in rural areas.


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    #3439
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    One particular individual spent much of the second half of the 2000s peddling all sorts of lunatic rail projects the breadth of the island and especially to the provincial media ( of which there then was a great profusion with pages to fill). In so doing he caused a huge amount of distraction nationwide and this led to a loss of focus as various county council expensed idiots went to CIE HQ to do a spot of lobbying etc only to be shown the door.

    This indiividual did more harm to the cause of Intercity Railways than anyone else...even the biggest Bus Baron.

    The individual even used to have his very own thread in this forum for a while during the peak of his activities, but no longer. The thread is long gone. Victor told me in response to a query that he had no idea where.


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    #3440
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    For a long while the state made effort to stop private companies providing public transport services, happily in recent times this has changed which has seen coach transport in this country improve, directly due to operators bringing about innovative services that have made the state companies drive up their standards. In any industry, including the one I'm working in now, competition always drives a better product at the end of the day because it prevents someone sitting back and doing nothing since if they do they will lose customers.

    I'm also not sure why this cherry picking debate keeps coming up. The routes that you are talking about are already served by Bus Eireann who are funded from the taxpayer to provide a service. How on earth is a private company supposed to cope going against someone who will be getting tens of thousands of pounds per year to run a service which also has vehicles payed for by the taxpayer, and does not need to pay its own insurance?

    The fact is private companies were left with identifying small crumbs and niches within the market because all of the big cherrys had already been picked by the state companies for many years, and in any industry, a long serving incumbent is always going to have an advantage over a new entrant, just like if BK was running a well established dominant software company, and I started up my own today, he'd have an advantage as well.

    I'm sure private companies would love to get involved in PSO services but that is not possible at the moment since they are all awarded directly to Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus, who are being paid by the taxpayer to run them. A private service has to be self funded, pay for it's own insurance and it's own vehicles. Of the less attractive rural services, if we withdrew all PSO funding from them tomorrow, how many would BE and DB be running?

    I'm not saying that we should not have PSO funding in this country, I think for rural services it is vital, but you have to realise that at the same time, you can't say a private not running a service out of its own funds against a public operator paid for by the taxpayer is an example of creaming profits, because it's not a level playing field, and won't be until the private operators can receive the same benefits as the public ones you are comparing them to.


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    #3441
    The Idyl Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭The Idyl Race


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    One particular individual spent much of the second half of the 2000s peddling all sorts of lunatic rail projects the breadth of the island and especially to the provincial media ( of which there then was a great profusion with pages to fill). In so doing he caused a huge amount of distraction nationwide and this led to a loss of focus as various county council expensed idiots went to CIE HQ to do a spot of lobbying etc only to be shown the door.

    This indiividual did more harm to the cause of Intercity Railways than anyone else...even the biggest Bus Baron.

    The individual even used to have his very own thread in this forum for a while during the peak of his activities, but no longer. The thread is long gone. Victor told me in response to a query that he had no idea where.

    Indeed. He's gone. Perhaps we can look him up and encourage him to come back for the sport?


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    #3442
    The Idyl Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭The Idyl Race


    bk wrote: »
    Well there you go folks, I believe the last three posts speak for themselves (steamengine and Idyl's that is).

    No actual effort to respond to my questions, instead simple name calling.

    It is ridiculous to accuse me of being some sort of bus lobby!!!! I've always been up front about who I am and what I do. I'm a software engineer, who works for a large US multinational IT company and I have never worked for and have no relations who have ever worked for any public transport company, bus, train, public or private.

    I'm quiet happy to prove that.

    My interest in public transport is from an environmental point of view and as an actual heavy user of public transport.

    However it is quiet clear that their is a rail lobby here or at least a group of rail "fans" who seem to want to cheer lead all rail, without any debate if it actually makes any sense or not.

    Steamengine, The Idyl Race, etc. would you like to tell us who you work for? And if you have any family members or others who work for Irish Rail? Also do you guys actually ever take public transport?

    I hear a lot of talk about the theory of rail travel from you guys, but I don't remember you ever actually mentioning any experiences of actually using it.



    I think they are very necessary. They bring affordable and flexible public transport to the people. Without them we would all be paying IR more then €70 return and no service after 8pm between our two largest cities!! How can you justify that?

    BE carry twice as many passengers as IR. The private companies combined probably carry as many passengers as IR. We mostly talk about the premium bus services to Cork, Galway, etc. here, but every day private bus companies run all over the country from direct express services, to commuter services to very small scale (mini bus) local services in rural areas.

    Who exactly are you appealing to here bk? I'm a full time carer for my elderly father, I have odd bits of time on my hands and I'm waiting for the Carers' allowance. I don't have any time to go swanning off around the country so when I do get the allowance the Golden Ticket that comes with it will be damn all use to me as I wear a hole in the road between home and a hospital.

    Get down off your fúcking cross bucko.


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    #3443
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    foggy_lad wrote: »


    The current fares Dublin-Cork are €62 single, €73.50 day return, €79.50 open return.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=82519359#post82519359
    I can drive to Dublin and back for that amount , to which you must add the cost of getting to the station, parking perhaps and the cost of getting from the station at the other end.
    Train fares are too dear, and especially so as I rarely drive on my own and you can slash the cost of car travel if you have companions.
    I'd love to use the train to get to Dublin and will once I get free travel (not too long now...) .


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    #3444
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The Idyl Race, sorry to hear you are stuck looking after your father, but you started it with this ridiculous notion of some sort of bus lobby, when no such thing exists, but quiet clearly a number of rail lobbys do exist (WRC, P11, etc.).

    As for not being able to convince me on intercity rail travel, that is a cop out. Until 2011 I actually was a big fan of rail (and still aim, where it makes sense). I had been using Irish Rail to Cork once a month for 9 years. Like some here I thought buses, while cheap, were slow and uncomfortable. And they were, 4 hours 30 mins to Cork on BE, not a chance.

    But then in 2011 I took the bus to Galway and it was an eye opener. I then found that the bus could be fast, very comfortable, flexible, as well as cheap. My mind was changed and then in 2012 we got similar services to Limerick, Cork and Belfast and since then, I haven't been on an intercity train since.

    So Idyl, Steamengine, I have changed my mind in the past and I am open to being convinced.

    Idyl, I find it ironic that you say you are on the carers allowance, wouldn't you thus see the value of much cheaper public transport that is good enough?

    I don't swan about the country, I work in Dublin, because that is where most jobs left are and I head back to Cork once a month to see my family and friends that I have to leave behind. Surely you can appreciate that in these hard times, every penny counts and that the much cheaper bus services is a god send.


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    #3445
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    bk wrote: »
    I'm ambivalent about intercity rail in Ireland. I'm yet to be convinced that it is a most have, but I'm open to being convinced.

    Intercity rail in Ireland is slow and expensive. Fair enough if it is profitable or at least break even, then of course it should remain.

    However I'm not sure it justifies 10's if not 100's of millions in grants and subsidies each year.

    What would happen if there was a strike with intercity rail in the morning? Would the economy collapse? Nope, you will still be able to get to every city in Ireland in 3 hours or less and for a third of the price of rail.

    There is nothing Irish Rail currently offer that the private bus companies can't offer too for one third of the price and no cost to the taxpayer.

    So yes, I'm not convinced by it. If you or someone else can offer a good reason why it should continue to be subsidised to the tune of 10's of million each year, then I'm totally open to hearing it?
    give me a good reason why i should only have the choice of a bus to travel the routes still served by rail? if we don't subsidise rail then thats exactly what will probably end up happening, not subsidising rail is the same as forcing 1 method of public transport upon the people, the exact same thing happened during the 60s and 70s with rail closures and thankfully it backfired as most probably got a car instead

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #3446
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    bk wrote: »
    Steamengine, The Idyl Race, etc. would you like to tell us who you work for? And if you have any family members or others who work for Irish Rail? Also do you guys actually ever take public transport?
    i don't work on the railways nor have or had anyone work on them, i believe their a vital method of public transport which must remain part of this country indefinitely. i use public transport all the time and i try travel as much of my route by rail as possible even if it means changing.
    bk wrote: »
    I hear a lot of talk about the theory of rail travel from you guys, but I don't remember you ever actually mentioning any experiences of actually using it.

    well i can't comment on Steamengine or The Idyl Race but i have posted many times on the bad decisians made by IE and how they effect the rosslare dublin line which is the line i most frequently travel

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #3447
    The Idyl Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭The Idyl Race


    bk wrote: »
    The Idyl Race, sorry to hear you are stuck looking after your father, but you started it with this ridiculous notion of some sort of bus lobby, when no such thing exists, but quiet clearly a number of rail lobbys do exist (WRC, P11, etc.).

    As for not being able to convince me on intercity rail travel, that is a cop out. Until 2011 I actually was a big fan of rail (and still aim, where it makes sense). I had been using Irish Rail to Cork once a month for 9 years. Like some here I thought buses, while cheap, were slow and uncomfortable. And they were, 4 hours 30 mins to Cork on BE, not a chance.

    But then in 2011 I took the bus to Galway and it was an eye opener. I then found that the bus could be fast, very comfortable, flexible, as well as cheap. My mind was changed and then in 2012 we got similar services to Limerick, Cork and Belfast and since then, I haven't been on an intercity train since.

    So Idyl, Steamengine, I have changed my mind in the past and I am open to being convinced.

    Idyl, I find it ironic that you say you are on the carers allowance, wouldn't you thus see the value of much cheaper public transport that is good enough?

    I don't swan about the country, I work in Dublin, because that is where most jobs left are and I head back to Cork once a month to see my family and friends that I have to leave behind. Surely you can appreciate that in these hard times, every penny counts and that the much cheaper bus services is a god send.

    The swan comment wasn't aimed at you. I don't believe you are a shill bk.

    I have also said that I am waiting since September for the Carers' Allowance - haven't got it yet. But that's a whole other story and when I go online I never discuss this normally. I do feel very strongly about the use and abuse of the Golden Ticket - for those that need it, it is a godsend but it should handed out on a far more discretionary basis than it is.

    I fell in love with train travel when I was a kid, I lived in Leixlip and the local railway station in those days was ten years off from being reopened. Instead, it was used exclusively by cattle trains for the nearby Meat Packers factory, now long gone and replaced by Hewlett Packard. I had come from London and was used to comprehensive tube trains and buses and when Leixlip had only the "Vomit Comet", the old 66 route which ran once hourly to a rapidly growing suburb it compared poorly. I do have a real and well based concern that we are hurtling back to the transport policy of the fifties through the seventies where Public Transport was a residual service for those who could not afford cars - that narrative was unchallenged until the 1980s and reinforced the inferior quality of life we did have. Don't want the clock turned back to that.

    Anyway, I have a very soft spot for trains. I rarely get the chance I used to of travelling around Ireland and Britain in that civilised way and will always feel at a personal level that any bus is a remarkably poor substitute. I am not a lobbyist and would be delighted if anyone would pay me cash for writing this crap. Anyway back to my Open University essay which I really should be doing and not this.


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    #3448
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    One particular individual spent much of the second half of the 2000s peddling all sorts of lunatic rail projects the breadth of the island and especially to the provincial media ( of which there then was a great profusion with pages to fill). In so doing he caused a huge amount of distraction nationwide and this led to a loss of focus as various county council expensed idiots went to CIE HQ to do a spot of lobbying etc only to be shown the door.

    This indiividual did more harm to the cause of Intercity Railways than anyone else...even the biggest Bus Baron.

    The individual even used to have his very own thread in this forum for a while during the peak of his activities, but no longer. The thread is long gone. Victor told me in response to a query that he had no idea where.

    We know who that person was - Incidentally I broadly hold the same view of the WRC as the OP DWCommuter and Westip. I do think though that posters who do support the WRC should be allowed to express and explain their position. My reference to InterCity rail is more generic and would refer to the well established corridors. Incidentally P11 morphed into RUI as I understand it and AFAIK a broadly based Irish railway lobby does not exist, but if it does let me know as I'll gladly join it.


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    #3449
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    bk wrote: »
    Sure, the train might have a higher top speed, but again in the real world people don't care about that. They just care how long it takes to make the actual journey.

    Previously to get to O'Connell St the bus was faster. Now with the new schedule it should be about 10 minutes slower, but still more convenient (no dragging my bag off the train, walk to luas, wait for it, pay for it and get on it to take me to O'Connell St, the bus takes me direct). Certainly not a massive difference in times and with a price difference of between 2.7 and 4 times cheaper, well worth it.

    Certainly it isn't anything like end of the road described slow and rickety. Anyone who seriously believes that is just fooling themselves and showing themselves to be a pure rail fanboy.
    bk wrote: »
    Well there you go folks, I believe the last three posts speak for themselves (steamengine and Idyl's that is).

    No actual effort to respond to my questions, instead simple name calling.

    You really should dismount from your high horse !!!


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    #3450
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Are there any daily commuters here who use the "Western Rail Corridor" - (the new section that is)? for example Gort to Ennis or Ardrahan/Craughwell to Galway on a Daily Basis? Whats your experience of it?


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    #3451
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    To be quite honest all of you should cool down and stop polarising one another.

    There is plenty of room for bus and rail TOGETHER on Intercity routes and frankly as I've said before, the competition is good for all, provided it is not suicidal.

    I fail to see how the consumer will lose with this. Choice is good - some prefer the bus, some the train, but it will be down to personal choice. And the good news is that everyone now has a bigger choice!

    Winding one another up by saying one mode will kill the the other, or that one is so superior to the other to render it obsolete isn't necessary really, and I don't think it helps any of the arguments frankly.

    People have a choice and they can select which mode they prefer. Some will prefer the train, others the bus, but competition is good for all.


This discussion has been closed.
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