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Thanks all.

Carrying leave forward..

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  • 27-05-2014 12:28am
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi All,

    Question about carrying forward leave.

    Over the years I have accumulated quite a lot of annual leave. Starting this year I carried over 40 days into the 2014 leave year. I know the legislation states that the most an employee can carry forward is 5 days. I spoke to our HR section some time ago and i was told that they were aware of the rule but didnt enforce it.They left it up to the departmental managers to control it.

    Over the last few months, the company is having some difficulties. If the company was to close, would I be paid for the leave I have left?

    thanks for any comments or suggetions.


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    #2
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    This is really poor management for exactly this reason - if you're owed 40 days leave, then that's effectively 2 months' extra wages you're owed.

    Where is that legislation by the way? The only rules I've seen leave a few grey areas. This is from citizensinformation.ie, but it might be referenced elsewhere.
    In addition, annual leave should be taken within the appropriate leave year or with your consent, within 6 months of the relevant leave year. Further holding over (also known as carrying-over) of annual leave at your wish is a matter for agreement between you and your employer.

    Anyway, they've made their bed at this stage. You are entitled to get paid for annual leave that you have accrued but not taken. If you haven't already done so, it might be worth getting the number of days you're owed in writing/email under another guise.


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    #3
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,667 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    concerned employee.. wrote: »
    If the company was to close, would I be paid for the leave I have left?

    Probably not.

    It depends on the circumstances of the closure, but if they're bankrupt (which they might well be, if their financial management is so poor as to allow you to build up that sort of balance), then they won't have the cash to pay you.

    I'm not sure of the relative priority of employee wages for accrued leave vs other things - but am pretty sure that Revenue is higher up in the pecking order.

    AFAIK, the only way to get it paid out would be for you to resign.


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    #4
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    Sorry, I should have said you'd be owed the leave, whether or not the company can afford to pay everything that's owed is another matter.


  • Options
    #5
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OP Here again,

    Thanks for the replies

    The company is an irish subsiduary, the parent company is overseas, so I dont know about bankrupcy. The parent company seems to be in profit.

    I started by carrying forward 5-6 days and over time, that figure has crept up. Another thing that has me concerned is for the company to approach me and say "due to you not using the leave, youre losing it"

    Does that actually happen?

    One of the reasons i dont take leave is that there is nearly never cover provided for when Im absent. Again, lack of proper management.


  • Options
    #6
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    We have a "use it or lose it" policy here, unless for exceptional circumstances we're unable to take our allocation. But the people managers keep an eye on people with loads of leave, and try and avoid a situation where it's building up. Some people would say that this isn't allowed, other people would say that unless you've not been given the opportunity to take your leave, then that's OK.
    One of the reasons i dont take leave is that there is nearly never cover provided for when Im absent.

    Do they deny leave requests that you make, or do you just assume that you can't take it off because they don't have cover in place? If it's the latter, then you need to leave it up to them to officially deny your leave request; unless you want them being more prescriptive and telling you when you're taking leave so it doesn't continue to build up even more.

    I'd start chipping away at it - you've 4 weeks to take off before you even start at the normal annual entitlement.


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  • Options
    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    concerned employee wrote: »
    One of the reasons i dont take leave is that there is nearly never cover provided for when Im absent. Again, lack of proper management.
    Has that put you off taking holidays or have they stopped you going?

    Book the month of August off - they will have to come up with a solution for your cover if you are gone that long.


  • Options
    #8
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,667 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Book the month of August off - they will have to come up with a solution for your cover if you are gone that long.

    +1 to that.

    Or at least request it in writing: if they refuse the request, insist that they put the refusal in writing too, so you have some evidence.

    That said, it won't help you get the cash if the company goes under. So I'd suggest taking one-off days when you can, to, to try to bring the balance down. Maybe have a 4-day week every week until the end of the year.


  • Options
    #9
    blindsider
    Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭blindsider


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    +1 to that.

    Or at least request it in writing: if they refuse the request, insist that they put the refusal in writing too, so you have some evidence.

    That said, it won't help you get the cash if the company goes under. So I'd suggest taking one-off days when you can, to, to try to bring the balance down. Maybe have a 4-day week every week until the end of the year.

    This. Month of August off, 4 day weeks and a nice chunk at Christmas.

    Go for it.


  • Options
    #10
    Frigga_92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭Frigga_92


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Maybe have a 4-day week every week until the end of the year.

    I was going to suggest this. And an extra day off for every bank holiday. Put all your requests in writing and make sure you get any refusal in writing also.

    The rule my employer uses is that only 5 days can be carried over but they must be taken before the end of April. They say it's something to do with the tax year. That's probably rubbish and them just trying to make sure someone won't be looking for 3-4 weeks off during the summer months, which we're not allowed.


  • Options
    #11
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hey again all,

    Basically my situation hasnt changed much. There hasnt been much mentioned about the companys financial position in the last few months. Were ok, but not out of the woods yet.

    Regarding the leave situation, that hasnt changed a whole lot. There has been enquiries of "any holiday plans?" but I dont have any. I think HR is concerned about my current allocation. As i said above, i carried over 40 days into the 2014 leave year. This was in addition to the 2014 allocation. We are heading into 2015 and I'm still holding enough leave to go on holidays for nearly 3 months.

    How did i rack up so much leave? At times I was refused leave, there is no cover for when im out, job doesnt pay all that great hence dont have the funds for taking off somewhere. I dont enjoy sitting around the house doing nothing either. So my questions are:

    Can my employer force me to start using leave when they insist?
    And how legal is the "use it or lose it" policy thats mentioned here in some threads?


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    #12
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,260 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    concerned employee.. wrote: »
    So my questions are:

    Can my employer force me to start using leave when they insist?
    Yes they can; normally with 30 days notice.
    And how legal is the "use it or lose it" policy thats mentioned here in some threads?
    For the basic 20 days it's not as by law they need to make sure you take it or let you carry it over; beyond the basic 20 days it's murkier but I'd be inclined to say they could remove them but could cause problems if not done previously (i.e. they would need to announce a policy change, give people time to use them up etc.).


  • Options
    #13
    therecklessone
    Registered Users Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    concerned employee.. wrote: »
    I dont enjoy sitting around the house doing nothing either.

    Hi OP,

    Nody has answered your questions but I just wanted to point out that holidays from work are as much about giving you a break from your work environment as they are about going away.

    You could look at your outstanding leave as an opportunity to do something around the house, perhaps something as easy as a bit of spring cleaning, or some maintenance. How about taking a few days to visit friends or family? You will find that your mental and physical health will benefit from the chance to get away from your place of employment.

    I'll be honest, while I enjoy my job I'd happily take a paid week at home over a paid week at work every once in a while.

    If nothing else, your concern that you may lose these days (outside of your statutory entitlement) could be proved right, at which point you'd only have the option of the paid week at work.

    Talk to your immediate manager (and HR if required), tell them you'd like to agree a plan to use up your outstanding leave by a defined date then consider your options.


  • Options
    #14
    blindsider
    Registered Users Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭blindsider


    OP

    Start using your leave.

    Go somewhere if you can. Stay in hostels or B&B's - private hostels often do single rooms. Stay with friends for a night or two.

    Break the routine, get out in the fresh air and do sth different.

    Off-peak, travel abroad is quite cheap. Mid-week Ryanair flights + e.g. Laterooms.com = a good break in e.g. Sth of France/ Spain or Italy.

    For €300 you could do 5 days somewhere - you'd be surprised.....flights for €46???

    https://www.bookryanair.com/SkySales/Booking.aspx?culture=en-ie&lc=en-ie&ist=Histogram&price=42.98#Select

    I'm not sure about surcharges...not going too far with the booking..... in case I get tempted myself...:-))



    It can be done.....enjoy!!!


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