Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

leonardjos · 11-01-2010 2:50pm

In my mind the Western Railway Corridor will not be an ultimate success unless it stops at Shannon Airport and Shannon Industrial Estate.

That would involve changing the route of the existing line, and more expense. But there's little point in going ahead with it unless this change is made. In a normal industrialised country, this would be considered a relatively small and straight-forward construction project.

However in Ireland, this would be considered a close runner-up to building a space elavator in terms of scale and complexity

corktina · 11-01-2010 4:11pm

Im sure ive said this before, but to serve an airport you need frequent high speed links to large centres of population AND high volumes of flights. A non0-starter as far as Shannon and the WRC are concerned. Even a rail link to Dublin Airport would be marginal IMHO

dowlingm · 11-01-2010 4:16pm

@Eason Large Quail - Mullingar-Athlone would be an appealing way to reinforce the network between Dublin and Galway, but the problem with the Moate line not having access to the eastern Athlone station is a bit of a showstopper I think unless someone clever can figure out a scheme.

I would suggest that not one rail be relaid on that trackage without Maynooth-Mullingar getting extra capacity, since existing service is already getting trapped in the too-few passing loops past Maynooth.

One other point would be that that corridor is getting pretty busy with the proposed DART and Navan services and it doesn't seem like there's much scope to add track cheaply east of Clonsilla.

But as you say, this is probably fodder for another thread.

As for the "party line" - these are the facts. If they could be made a sticky on top of every page of this thread, I'd ask the mods nicely to make them so.

Hungerford · 11-01-2010 4:27pm

dowlingm wrote: »

@Eason Large Quail - Mullingar-Athlone would be an appealing way to reinforce the network between Dublin and Galway, but the problem with the Moate line not having access to the eastern Athlone station is a bit of a showstopper I think unless someone clever can figure out a scheme.

It's surprisingly easy. At the moment, there is a single school standing between the two lines on the outskirts of the town. If you relocate it and demolish its current building, you can construct a line to the east of the eastern station curving northwards to meet the Maote line. The total distance involved would be less than 500m.

dereko1969 · 11-01-2010 5:21pm

dowlingm wrote: »

[*]no stops in the right places (Sixmilebridge, Longpavement, Oranmore)

why you including the 2 in bold above? there are stations there (will be in the latter case).

dowlingm · 11-01-2010 6:07pm

That school appears to be Athlone Community College. According to their website, a new school is supposed to be built on adjoining lands. Here's the application. Based on the map in the application the new school will be on the eastern half of the lands, but I guess it depends what they will want to do with the existing once the new buildings are commissioned.

@dereko - I meant no stations on day 1 of service. There is an issue with the signalling for the Ennis-Limerick section but that should have been done in tandem with the rebuild. As we've seen in Midleton the signalling dept doesn't seem to join up well with the rest of the engineering people.

Chris_533976 · 11-01-2010 6:38pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I am aware that the M18 is currently under construction. However, converting the route to QBC will give busses dedicated road space and allow them to access the town centres with ease, unlike the motorway which bypasses towns

The buses dont need dedicated road space, the M18 is nowhere near capacity and wont be for years. Citylink do a direct (more or less) service from Galway to Limerick, Bus Eireann do a stopping service. Thats all thats needed.

Carawaystick · 12-01-2010 12:15am

cgcsb wrote: »

I am aware that the M18 is currently under construction. However, converting the route to QBC will give busses dedicated road space and allow them to access the town centres with ease, unlike the motorway which bypasses towns

Is Ennis train station in the town centre?
Even Craughwell's is as far from the new housing as it could be.

Can the busses travel through deeper floods than the trains can where the line is closed?

dowlingm · 12-01-2010 1:35am

As I understand it with the motors slung under the bodies, it seems that it doesn't take much standing water to cause electrical issues, plus it can cause shifts in the ballast under the tracks.

As for the buses I guess equipment vulnerability would depend on the bus manufacturer but presumably the luggage compartments aren't fully watertight?

12-01-2010 4:51am

Ballinasloe station is a good 20 minute walk from the town centre. Rail lines are like that in this country on useful and less so lines.

Cool Mo D · 12-01-2010 11:09am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is Ennis train station in the town centre?
Even Craughwell's is as far from the new housing as it could be.

Can the busses travel through deeper floods than the trains can where the line is closed?

Ennis is about 5 minutes walk from the town centre.

highlydebased · 12-01-2010 12:34pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is Ennis train station in the town centre?
Even Craughwell's is as far from the new housing as it could be.

Can the busses travel through deeper floods than the trains can where the line is closed?

The floods are on the line near Ballycar- the bus would not be going anywhere near here but instead travelling on the N18/M18 which hopefully will not see such floods ever

Sponge Bob · 12-01-2010 12:52pm

http://www.galwaynews.ie/10602-galway-opening-western-rail-corridor-further-delayed

January 11, 2010 - 1:27pm
The opening of the Galway section of the western rail corridor has been further delayed until Spring.
Iarnród Eireann are waiting for floodwaters on the line south of Ennis to recede so driver training can begin and the Galway to Limerick line can officially open.

There are no immediate plans to drain the flooded section of track, which has flooded in the past, and will continue to flood in the future according to a spokesperson for the OPW.

Spokesperson for campaign group West on Track Colmán Ó'Raghallaigh says that failing to drain the line is irresponsible, and will cause problems with the service

It has been flooded for about 7 weeks already. Once they BEGIN driver training it will take about 3 months to train them all. Make that a summer opening.

corktina · 12-01-2010 2:03pm

i dont know about Clare but we've fresh floods here in Cork.....

DoWhatThouWilt · 12-01-2010 7:32pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Ennis is about 5 minutes walk from the town centre.

Yes but more people live closer to Ennis station than in the town centre itself.

westtip · 13-01-2010 4:12pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

http://www.galwaynews.ie/10602-galway-opening-western-rail-corridor-further-delayed

It has been flooded for about 7 weeks already. Once they BEGIN driver training it will take about 3 months to train them all. Make that a summer opening.

Providing there are no more floods to interupt driver training again, is that a late summer opening you are thinking - just in time for the autumn flooding season, and remember the infamous words of Mr Dempsey in May - the future development of north of Athenry will depend on usage of phase 1 or words to that effect. Tis doomed from day one.

paulm17781 · 13-01-2010 4:21pm

westtip wrote: »

Tis doomed from day one.

If we ever see day 1. :eek:

karlr42 · 13-01-2010 5:21pm

How much of the line is flooded- the existing section south of Ennis, the new section north of it, or both?

Zoney · 13-01-2010 5:23pm

karlr42:

Afaik, both - hence the bus substitution for Ennis services (at least this allows onward connections both ways to/from rail services at Limerick).

loyatemu · 13-01-2010 5:45pm

why not start the intercity service now with a bus substitution - it'll give people a flavour of what to expect... (and it'll be quicker!)

13-01-2010 11:01pm

loyatemu wrote: »

why not start the intercity service now with a bus substitution - it'll give people a flavour of what to expect... (and it'll be quicker!)

Why not test the theory by putting bus transfers between Wicklow-Greystones? How's that Kilcoole station goin for ya?

This could go on in circles for ever.

Back to valid, useful discussion.

westtip: yeah it could be doomed. It could be not doomed. We won't know until we hear something happens.

I personally don't think that northward of Athenry's viability will have anything to do with the Galway-Limerick line's. The potential traffic is different in both directions, what with the completed line hosting trains that'd be city-city, and the unbuilt parts being, well, city-town (tuam) then town-er, town (claremorris).

I advise we all wait and see, and stop making ludicrous "suggestions" to what should have been done. "Should have" is useless, it is built. That's the end of do we/don't we build it. Now let's get on with the "why can't I get a decent cork/dublin/etc. connection?"

And as far as bus is concerned, there will always be those who do not take long-distance buses. I'm one of them. Hate having to take them. With a passion. No peeing or sh*tting facilities. No laptop. No tea. No stability. No standing up and stretching your legs. No elbow room.

I'm not the only one out there who will take a train over a bus if the option's open to me.

Aard · 13-01-2010 11:07pm

Eason Large Quail wrote: »

Why not test the theory by putting bus transfers between Wicklow-Greystones? How's that Kilcoole station goin for ya?

Wicklow-Greystones is an established route; changing it would cause disruption. The WRC isn't running yet - a bus route would would forecast whether the route would or would not be "doomed".

13-01-2010 11:20pm

Aard wrote: »

Wicklow-Greystones is an established route; changing it would cause disruption. The WRC isn't running yet - a bus route would would forecast whether the route would or would not be "doomed".

No it wouldn't. It would be another bus route. Just like any of the other services between Galway/Limerick that you can get right now. Whoever heard of a new route opening with a few spare buses "oh here ya go, we're putting on a service but its not ready so we'll stuff ya onta a bus. d'ya like the service then?"

And can we please stop this "doomed" bullsh*t?

Aard · 13-01-2010 11:44pm

Are you saying that putting on a bus route as a temporary measure is equal to, or worse than, just putting on the train route and hoping for the best?

DoWhatThouWilt · 14-01-2010 12:13am

westtip wrote: »

Providing there are no more floods to interupt driver training again, is that a late summer opening you are thinking - just in time for the autumn flooding season, and remember the infamous words of Mr Dempsey in May - the future development of north of Athenry will depend on usage of phase 1 or words to that effect. Tis doomed from day one.

Incredible isn't it. All that money wasted to get some preist from Mayo a red carpet through the Pearly Gates and a handful of trainspotters a once in lifetime sexual climax...

How much was needed for the cancer unit in Sligo General again? Gas country this.

Judgement Day · 14-01-2010 12:34am

DoWhatThouWilt wrote: »

Incredible isn't it. All that money wasted to get some preist from Mayo a red carpet through the Pearly Gates and a handful of trainspotters a once in lifetime sexual climax...

How much was needed for the cancer unit in Sligo General again? Gas country this.

Nostradamus by another name?

14-01-2010 12:56am

Aard wrote: »

Are you saying that putting on a bus route as a temporary measure is equal to, or worse than, just putting on the train route and hoping for the best?

I'm saying throwing on the extra bus would be retarded when you get no extra benefit from it. Temporary busses are put on for existing services promised that can't be fulfilled. As of right now there's the bus services that you all want to force Galway-Limerick travellers to use. An extra bus service would not deliver anything quicker than what's there. The train, when it comes, will provide guarunteed departure & arrival times (well, a lot more stable than busses ever do!) with the benefits of sanitation, hot drinks and tables.

Guys, the money is spent. It would be more expensive to do anythign other than set up the service. Please, I don't want to keep this hamsterwheel going until the end of boards.ie. The fact is that at some point in 2010 there will be trains running from Limerick to Galway and back again. If you don't like that, then add it to the huge list of things you hate.

Now can we stop the hamsterwheel of useless suggestions?

L1011 · 14-01-2010 1:01am

How would it be more expensive to say "oops, we made a massive mistake, sorry", cessate all work and never run the basically empty trains up and down the line the odd time its not submerged than to continue on and do that?

Maths don't add up.

14-01-2010 1:09am

MYOB wrote: »

How would it be more expensive to say "oops, we made a massive mistake, sorry", cessate all work and never run the basically empty trains up and down the line the odd time its not submerged than to continue on and do that?

Maths don't add up.

Well, think return on investment. If you run trains, you get *some* return on investment. if you don't run trains, you get *no* return on investment. And a lot of people who watched a station being built just down the road from them being told "f*ck off, you don't matter".

Do you really think the anger that would ensue wouldn't cost someone a job?

Whether or not you get enough return on investment, is another issue. At the very least, trains need to be run just to prove it one way or the other.

I mean, if it all comes to pass as the Boards.ie anti-wrc support group (I really think you guys should just get a name and website together) is doing their best to make sure of, then I'll be the first to put my hands up and say "yeah, those trains are empty".

But if we cut now, we will not know. And many people I know will be put out. I have a freind who filled out his CAO form based on being able to get that train to Limerick.

invincibleirish · 14-01-2010 1:50am

Eason Large Quail wrote: »

Guys, the money is spent. It would be more expensive to do anythign other than set up the service.

Money is an ongoing issue, even the most optimistic of forecasts suggests that the WRC will require a large yearly subvention. If IE have to deal with reductions from Government then do they continue to financially support a line which is frequently waterlogged and with probable low patronage (how many passengers currently between Ennis-Limerick?) or do they cut back on services elsewhere?.

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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