Sawing 8" thick beech heartwood

Kildafornia · 04-01-2011 2:04am #1

Hi folks, I'm making a 'roubo' workbench and I got a solid lump of beech for the top - 8' x 2' x 8" trouble is I can barely move it so I have to saw it myself, and my circular saw only reaches 3". I suppose I'm handsawing this? Should I buy a €60 650mm crosscut hand saw and if so any particular type? Is there a cheaper way to chop this bad boy, or is the saw a good investment? I will be power planing the ends anyway so The cut doesnt need to be perfect.

galwaydude18 · 04-01-2011 2:30am

Get a nice friend or neighbour to give you a lift with the plank and bring it to your local joinery&ask them would they cut it on there rip saw or bandsaw even for you. It will cost you but will save you an awful lot of hardship with a handsaw

Kildafornia · 04-01-2011 2:55am

This thing weighs maybe 300 kilos, it ain't leaving my shed until I move house! Will a large crosscut saw do the job you reckon?

http://gallery.me.com/iphone/paul.magmadesign/100014#0

galwaydude18 · 04-01-2011 9:57am

A cross cut saw is what the name suggests.its for cross cutting timber not ripping it in the length. It would work to rip the plank but I think you would be better off using a rip saw which would be designed to rip the plank.
Do u know anyone who can use a chainsaw?they might rip the plank for you with it.
If its so heavy how did you get it into the shed?

del88 · 04-01-2011 1:25pm

I'd use the circular saw and cut from both sides ,using a straight edge and clamp.....then cut the reminding 2" with a hand saw.....then plane the end and clean up with a belt sander....simples

Kildafornia · 04-01-2011 1:37pm

del88 wrote: »

I'd use the circular saw and cut from both sides ,using a straight edge and clamp.....then cut the reminding 2" with a hand saw.....then plane the end and clean up with a belt sander....simples

That's my plan Del, spot on. So what saw should I use, I only have a crappy little 300mm bahco prizecut would this do the job, or is it worth my while getting a decent saw? I want to start getting decent tools, but I'm afraid a proper crosscut would be used once a year and they're expensive yokes.

Kildafornia · 04-01-2011 1:44pm

galwaydude18 wrote: »

. If its so heavy how did you get it into the shed?

Rolled it on 2 logs. Took two men a half hour. lifting it is another trick - 4 supports on 2 rafters using ratchet straps and inching it up then dropping it on support planks to reset the ratchet.

del88 · 04-01-2011 1:52pm

I'd use a standard disposable hand saw....nice new one like this

Should pick one up for 20euro.......the quality of disposable saw these days are so good that it's not nessecary to spend big bucks...wrecked many a saw on unseen nails so better to do it to a 20euro saw as opposed to a 60euro one.
Thats some piece of beech....where did you get it?

Kildafornia · 04-01-2011 2:08pm

Cheers del sound advice. Keep the nice tools for the finishing work eh? Picked it up in a sawmill in carlow (059) 913 1898. The only problem is the moisture content is so high that the sawdust sticks together as I saw it, and it's heartwood - the core of the tree goes right through the centre and it's already cracking a bit. hoping that it won't crack too much as it will live in my unheated shed.

galwaydude18 · 04-01-2011 10:23pm

Are you goin to make something out of it?if so cut everything oversize&bring indoors until the moisture content is low enough so that it wont shrink anymore and that all the cupping and warping will have taken place and you can plane it to the correct sizes after that. Also treat the end grain with wax to prevent excessive cracking. Dont leave any of it by radiators. Preferably leave it in the middle of an unused heated room

Setanta1974 · 06-01-2011 8:21am

You can try sealing the end grain with PVA Bond diluted about 50/50 with water to slow down the drying process which should hopefully keep cracks to a minimum.

JoeB- · 06-01-2011 6:38pm

some dangerous techniques there.

The circular saw will probably get jammed and kick back severly. This is ok if you're aware and positioned correctly, with a two handed firm grip, but still a bit dangerous. Especially since the wood is wet like you say.

It might not work either.. the cuts from both sides will likely not be pointing perfectly at each other, and so your handsawing will miss.. you'll then have to snap the pieces. This means extra sawing, and some lost wood.

A suitable band saw would do it in minutes, with no risk of jamming.

Hard point hand saw are as cheap as ten Euros or less and are brilliant. The teeth can't be sharpened so they're disposable but they stay sharp for a long time due to hardness of teeth.
It'd be quite hard work and there could be jamming... which means lots of lost energy. Nightmare. Difficult also to perform the cut.. once it goes wrong it can be hard to correct.

Cheers

Setanta1974 · 06-01-2011 7:12pm

How about a chainsaw with a milling attachment?

galwaydude18 · 06-01-2011 8:28pm

I know from past experience the technique of using a skill saw from both sides never lines up unless the plank is perfectly square. One cut always ends up at least 5mm difference thus wastin material.
I personaly would be trying to the cutting on a band saw as it will be the most accurate and safest way to do it.

del88 · 06-01-2011 8:47pm

Ban saw maybe slightly safer....although not easy to control a piece that size and that heavy on a ban saw, would be a two or three man operation and they'd need to be keeping the piece level and square at all times .......personally I'd still have no issues with using the skill saw......

Zebrano · 06-01-2011 9:56pm

Nice piece how much you pay for it

tabby aspreme · 07-01-2011 1:01am

It may be worth your while to bring it back to the sawmill ,it would save lot of hardship ,when you cut it keep the centre core in one plank as it will be nothing but trouble and you may not be able to use it

Kildafornia · 07-01-2011 3:53am

@zebrano €100 mate. Well I chopped with a circular saw and finished the cut with a Stanley fat man 650mm. Yep, it's around 5mm off square as no surface is flat yet. No matter, I will plane the excess square when she dries out.

Also, I got impatient and stuck a rad underneath it! Dumbass. Nice big crack overnight, thankfully underneath, I can live with wood filler. Rad is away again so I'll wait a few months for equilibrium moisture content.

Flattening the top will be first before I can get any other surface square. The way I see it there are 3 options:
1. Buy a #8 or #9 plane and do it by hand with winding sticks.
2. As above with power planer
3. Make a sliding jig for my router and do it all inch by inch
Any thoughts? Again, this slab is not going to be sawn into planks, it is staying 7' x 2' x 8" cheers

Zebrano · 07-01-2011 9:34pm

That was a bargain
Did they have a lot of big planks like that down there
i think the router would be the best way to flatten it
but its gonna take ages to dry

Kildafornia · 07-01-2011 11:42pm

Zebrano wrote: »

That was a bargain
Did they have a lot of big planks like that down there
i think the router would be the best way to flatten it
but its gonna take ages to dry

They have a good assortment of massive timbers, but I'd say they're all soaking wet.

Zebrano · 08-01-2011 7:44pm

i dont mind it being wet im a woodturner so i rough turn it first to about an inch thickness then dry it

Carlow52 · 08-01-2011 7:50pm

Kildafornia wrote: »

Hi folks, I'm making a 'roubo' workbench and I got a solid lump of beech for the top - 8' x 2' x 8" trouble is I can barely move it so I have to saw it myself, and my circular saw only reaches 3". I suppose I'm handsawing this? Should I buy a €60 650mm crosscut hand saw and if so any particular type? Is there a cheaper way to chop this bad boy, or is the saw a good investment? I will be power planing the ends anyway so The cut doesnt need to be perfect.

have read this thread and still dont know what way u want to cut it.

In addition with high MC u will need, as advised, over size the cutting and leave it to dry, shrink, warp, twist and crack before final finishing

1chippy · 09-01-2011 1:51pm

its not one for a bandsaw but a resaw with a feed unit. now you probably dont want any more advice on how to bring it away and get it machined but it is your best option. it will take you a lot more than a half an hour to rip it. prob burn out your skill saw too.
Also its beeech so its going to be very hard to stop the cracking and moving. beech will expand more than most timbers when moisture is high. thus has to shrink just as far back when drying.

dathi · 09-01-2011 2:57pm

just a few points the dust from beech is carcinogenic so make sure you have a good mask on when sanding or cutting. the other thing is you have bought a wet piece of wood .the moisture content could be as high as 40%. when air drying timber the rule of thumb is to leave it one year for every inch that you have to dry. as your plank is 8" that would mean 8 years before it is dry enough to make anything from it . if you have a household dehumidifier you can dry it out quicker make a box of plywood large enough for the plank and dehumidifier and a small electric heater. i have never dryed any thing as big as 8" have used it to dry 1" elm that i used for a floor it took about 5 weeks to dry

SpitfireIV · 09-01-2011 5:12pm

Kildafornia wrote: »

@zebrano €100 mate. Well I chopped with a circular saw and finished the cut with a Stanley fat man 650mm. Yep, it's around 5mm off square as no surface is flat yet. No matter, I will plane the excess square when she dries out.

Also, I got impatient and stuck a rad underneath it! Dumbass. Nice big crack overnight, thankfully underneath, I can live with wood filler. Rad is away again so I'll wait a few months for equilibrium moisture content.

Flattening the top will be first before I can get any other surface square. The way I see it there are 3 options:
1. Buy a #8 or #9 plane and do it by hand with winding sticks.
2. As above with power planer
3. Make a sliding jig for my router and do it all inch by inch
Any thoughts? Again, this slab is not going to be sawn into planks, it is staying 7' x 2' x 8" cheers

As suggested, that chunk is gonna need some time to dry out and in that time its gonna twist a tad perhaps, warp a little, there is no real point flatening it now when its still has a very high moisture content.

For what its worth though, a good (and I mean good!) No7 would do the job, provided of course that you have a No5 to povide the initial flattening (the 7/8's only really come into there own once the initial high spots are removed, otherwise you're putting a lot of work on yourself) if you go down that route try pick up an old Stanley or Record, DO NOT buy a new one of either, they're rubbish!! If you know how to work a plane and flatten stock then thats the route I'd be taking.

Kildafornia · 09-01-2011 9:33pm

For what its worth though, a good (and I mean good!) No7 would do the job, provided of course that you have a No5 to povide the initial flattening (the 7/8's only really come into there own once the initial high spots are removed

Yeah sounds like that's the route to go - those planes are expensive! I have an sb3 could I use this instead of a no5?

dathi wrote: »

just a few points the dust from beech is carcinogenic so make sure you have a good mask on when sanding or cutting.

what??? I have been jointing and ripping the planks for the base for days now without a mask, Jesus

Carlow52 wrote: »

have read this thread and still dont know what way u want to cut it.

I needed to Square the ends. I've already done the cut as mentioned in the thread somewhere - large toothed handsaw and elbow grease was the way forward.

SpitfireIV · 10-01-2011 2:08am

Kildafornia wrote: »

Yeah sounds like that's the route to go - those planes are expensive! I have an sb3 could I use this instead of a no5?

Emm.....the SB3.....how do I put this politely? Leave it out with the bins on the next collection day, if you're lucky, really lucky they just might take it!

Hah, sorry, couldnt resist, no, I dont know what class to put those planes in but they wont come close to doing the job of a good old (say pre 60's Record or a pre 80's Stanley) Record or Stanley which are pretty common, I got a pretty decent Stanley No7 today, payed €60 for it, but got a nice old compact handsaw thrown in to sweeten the deal, so I was happy!

. You'll get a good No5 on flea bay for €20-€40, cheaper if you can pick one up in a car boot.

JoeB- · 11-01-2011 3:42pm

dathi wrote: »

just a few points the dust from beech is carcinogenic so make sure you have a good mask on when sanding or cutting.

How serious is this?

Any links to info on this?

Has an employer ever been found to be liable for this?

slowburner · 11-01-2011 7:44pm

JoeBallantine wrote: »

How serious is this?

Any links to info on this?

Has an employer ever been found to be liable for this?

Don't know if any employer has been held liable for the effects of wood dust inhalation.
All woodworkers should know that the dust from all hardwoods and many softwoods, can be carcinogenic. The biggest factor is the sub-micron particles, which the human lung absorbs, but cannot expel. That's why MDF is the worst of all - tiny dust particles. Kidafornia is working on spalted beech which has the added hazard of fungal spores. The characteristic black bit in spalted beech is fungus.
Hope this helps.

http://www.workershealth.com.au/facts023.html

Black Bloc · 20-01-2011 8:16pm

I'd be surprised if the timber doesn't twist or get the shakes after ripping a slice out of it as described. Chainsawing a 8' length might raise more problems than it solve. Bring it to a joniery as was suggested and get them to dimension it for you.

Sawing 8" thick beech heartwood

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