Did You ever vote Fianna Fail?

margio · 28-03-2012 2:03pm

Laminations wrote: »

There definitely needs to be a separation in local/community affairs and national governance. The end of constituency clinics would be a start. Any local issues are taken to the council (who are voted in at senior positions by the people). Bi-weekly or monthly town hall meetings would then be the forum to raise national issues and get updates from your TD. These public meetings would be attended (on stage) by any government or opposition TDs for that area and anyone from the council or with some reasonable mandate intending to run for a national seat to voice their concerns and share their views. They'd be independently moderated and take questions from the audience (the local community). Discussion of local issues would not be permitted here unless it was an issue resulting from national policy. This would end the behind closed doors clinic meetings which lack transparency and waste TDs time.

People may criticise such a system by saying that local councillors who have a local presence and solve local issues daily would then be voted to national office and TDs would lose out. But I think the distinction would mean people are more likely to retain good councillors and only 'promote' them on the back of a good performance at the town hall meetings where they could demonstrate their suitability for the Dail and national politics.

But margio, while you're waiting for that to happen you need to vote on a candidate with consideration of the party they stand for.

yeah, but FF for me are as good as any, but look most of the policies FG stand for I certainly don't like, as there are even for FF, and let's face it pre election manifestos and post election actions are totally different:(. I mean before the election Labour promised the sun and the stars when it came to education, and now they are after destroying education for example postgrads.And surprise surprise, when the FF led Government made cuts to education, Labour were up in arms, but since they took over, it's gotten worse. Ruairi Quinn was the man who never shut up about in while in opposition, or maybe they are all the same:mad:

Laminations · 28-03-2012 2:34pm

margio wrote: »

yeah, but FF for me are as good as any, but look most of the policies FG stand for I certainly don't like, as there are even for FF, and let's face it pre election manifestos and post election actions are totally different:(. I mean before the election Labour promised the sun and the stars when it came to education, and now they are after destroying education for example postgrads.And surprise surprise, when the FF led Government made cuts to education, Labour were up in arms, but since they took over, it's gotten worse. Ruairi Quinn was the man who never shut up about in while in opposition, or maybe they are all the same:mad:

You can't have it both ways, in one breath saying they are all the same and in another saying you disagree with most of FGs policies. FF may be very similar on certain policy issues but we are talking about party standards and ethos here - FF are head and shoulders above the rest in terms of scandals.

margio · 28-03-2012 3:08pm

Laminations wrote: »

You can't have it both ways, in one breath saying they are all the same and in another saying you disagree with most of FGs policies. FF may be very similar on certain policy issues but we are talking about party standards and ethos here - FF are head and shoulders above the rest in terms of scandals.

Not necessarily, there is plenty of FG, corrupt politicians out there, Lowry allegedly took a bribe to grant a mobile licence, I mean that if true is corrupt, Bertie we know took money, but for what we will never know, but you can't forget that the vast majority of FF TD'S and councillors that sat years ago and present have an untainted image., and have been linked to no corruption what so ever. Getting back to policies, I agree with many of Fianna Fail, as I do Sinn Fein. I don't think it is possible to agree with every single policy of a political party, especially these days as the parties are trying to become a catch all party

deise go deo · 28-03-2012 3:17pm

No, I have never voted for FF, may do so in the future though, depends on the comparitive quaility of the candidates in my constituency, the Issues of the day and Policies of each party in relation to those issues.

As it currently stands, I don't think I would find myself voting for FF, I don't think they have anything to offer at present, but I am not going to rule out the posibility of that changing.

margio · 28-03-2012 3:34pm

Zombrex wrote: »

Political parties do not avoid a crash like the one we had, countries do. The country should have kicked out FF and then demanded the other parties change the direction of the country. Oddly this is how democracy is supposed to work.

Hence bad policies

What part of their economy policies in the 2000s did you agree with?

I didn't buy in the boom, so i have no one to blame, it's very easy to blame someone, if you went above your head in in spending. Did you disagree with the policies at the time.Personally I detested Charlie McCreevy, so was delighted to see him ****ed off to Europe, even though there are others who feel, if he had stayed the crash mighn't be as bad, but I don't buy that. It's fine to argue that FG would have helped the country avoid the crash, but they were the ones promising the electorate that they would outspend FF. They in opposition tried to convince the population that the Government wasn't spending enough???

raymon · 28-03-2012 7:31pm

margio wrote: »

Not necessarily, there is plenty of FG, corrupt politicians out there, Lowry allegedly took a bribe to grant a mobile licence, I mean that if true is corrupt, Bertie we know took money, but for what we will never know, but you can't forget that the vast majority of FF TD'S and councillors that sat years ago and present have an untainted image., and have been linked to no corruption what so ever. Getting back to policies, I agree with many of Fianna Fail, as I do Sinn Fein. I don't think it is possible to agree with every single policy of a political party, especially these days as the parties are trying to become a catch all party

FF are by far the most dishonest corrupt party in Ireland .

What a sorry sight they are.

Even Lowry when he was expelled for corruption went to join up with the FF voting block

FF loved him . He fitted right in

Shattered Dreamer · 28-03-2012 7:34pm

Either not too many FF supporters past or present use Boards.ie or there are quite a few liars here lol

margio · 28-03-2012 7:55pm

raymon wrote: »

FF are by far the most dishonest corrupt party in Ireland .

What a sorry sight they are.

Even Lowry when he was expelled for corruption went to join up with the FF voting block

FF loved him . He fitted right in

So you say, but at the end of the day Lowry was FG, as was Cosgrave, and there may or may not be many more. How many of FF were proved corrupt, and how many FF politicians have there been down the years, do your stats, you will find that it is a minute %. If only several citizens in a town were convicted thieves, then are the whole population of the town thieves too?, apparently in your opinion yes.

Zombrex · 28-03-2012 7:56pm

margio wrote: »

I didn't buy in the boom

I didn't ask you did you buy in the boom, I asked you did you support the policies of the FF government.

margio wrote: »

Did you disagree with the policies at the time.

Yes. Did you?

margio wrote: »

Personally I detested Charlie McCreevy, so was delighted to see him ****ed off to Europe, even though there are others who feel, if he had stayed the crash mighn't be as bad, but I don't buy that.

Did you continue to vote for FF after that despite them continuing on the policies of McCreevy and his ilk.

Zombrex · 28-03-2012 7:59pm

margio wrote: »

So you say, but at the end of the day Lowry was FG, as was Cosgrave, and there may or may not be many more. How many of FF were proved corrupt, and how many FF politicians have there been down the years, do your stats, you will find that it is a minute %. If only several citizens in a town were convicted thieves, then are the whole population of the town thieves too?, apparently in your opinion yes.

Corruption is not simply taking bribes. It is also continuing to support those who are themselves corrupt.

FF had a culture of tolerating corruption and dodgy dealing. Even if a FF member didn't partake themselves they supported this culture by continuing to support those who did.

SteppingStone · 28-03-2012 8:05pm

No and never will..

margio · 28-03-2012 8:06pm

Zombrex wrote: »

I didn't ask you did you buy in the boom, I asked you did you support the policies of the FF government.

Yes. Did you?

Did you continue to vote for FF after that despite them continuing on the policies of McCreevy and his ilk.

Thought wages were a bit high, social welfare. public sector, etc, but we wanted more and more , and FG and Lab and everyone else were telling us we should get away more.Yes I thought money was wasted, but did we ever have a boom, and was it ever going to last, only so much land out there to build on.??
Would have preferred to have saw more prisons built with the money, so scumbags wouldn't be walking out of mountjoy after 3 hours of a 6 month sentence. For Gods sake even the Bertie Bowl if it went ahead would have been some reflection of the wealth we had.Ok I feel we have nothing to show for what we had, , but I don't think it ever was a boom, people ran away with themselves and peoples values went out the window, we were spoiled ****s obsessed with money

margio · 28-03-2012 8:10pm

Zombrex wrote: »

Corruption is not simply taking bribes. It is also continuing to support those who are themselves corrupt.

FF had a culture of tolerating corruption and dodgy dealing. Even if a FF member didn't partake themselves they supported this culture by continuing to support those who did.

So. who do you support?

Wider Road · 28-03-2012 8:51pm

Zombrex wrote: »

margio wrote: »

So you say, but at the end of the day Lowry was FG, as was Cosgrave, and there may or may not be many more. How many of FF were proved corrupt, and how many FF politicians have there been down the years, do your stats, you will find that it is a minute %. If only several citizens in a town were convicted thieves, then are the whole population of the town thieves too?, apparently in your opinion yes.

Corruption is not simply taking bribes. It is also continuing to support those who are themselves corrupt.

FF had a culture of tolerating corruption and dodgy dealing. Even if a FF member didn't partake themselves they supported this culture by continuing to support those who did.

Going by your opinion, you need to explain Joe Higgin's radio interview last weekend. He said 3 to 4 times that FG & FF leaders knew in the 80's & 90's that they had corrupt councillors in Dublin. FG & FF deputy's were present and kept quiet!
Why?

margio · 28-03-2012 9:21pm

Wider Road wrote: »

Going by your opinion, you need to explain Joe Higgin's radio interview last weekend. He said 3 to 4 times that FG & FF leaders knew in the 80's & 90's that they had corrupt councillors in Dublin. FG & FF deputy's were present and kept quiet!
Why?

No sure whether it is me or Zombrex that is aimed at:D, but certainly yes there were corrupt politicians and indeed on both sides. UCC lecturer on corruption Dr Neil Collins in his book political corruption in Ireland relates corruption with a rise of new breed of politician who were no involved in war of independence/civil war politics

raymon · 28-03-2012 9:59pm

Charles Haughey (FF), Ray Burke(FF), Frank Dunlop(FF), Liam Lawlor(FF), Beverly Cooper-Flynn(FF), Padraig Flynn (FF), Bertie Ahern(FF) ,Ivor Callely (FF), Michael Lowry (FG) , Willie o Dea (FF), etc etc etc

This is just a few of the most rotten politicians off the top of my head.

9 are FF and Lawlor was a FF ally since he got expelled for corruption from FG.

I don't wish to defend FG , but I can't let people like Margio rewrite history

margio · 28-03-2012 10:49pm

raymon wrote: »

Charles Haughey (FF), Ray Burke(FF), Frank Dunlop(FF), Liam Lawlor(FF), Beverly Cooper-Flynn(FF), Padraig Flynn (FF), Bertie Ahern(FF) ,Ivor Callely (FF), Michael Lowry (FG) , Willie o Dea (FF), etc etc etc

This is just a few of the most rotten politicians off the top of my head.

9 are FF and Lawlor was a FF ally since he got expelled for corruption from FG.

I don't wish to defend FG , but I can't let people like Margio rewrite history

Your some clown

Former FG Cllr says over half of colleagues were corrupted

yesterday at 2:22 pm

Just when you thought the Mahon Tribunal was only going to seriously affect Fianna Fáil then along comes former Fine Gael councillor and throws a spanner in the works.
Mary, who used to be a Dublin county councillor, has said that between 50 per cent and two-thirds of her colleagues were on the take. Speaking on Raidió na Gaeltachta's Glór Anoir today, she said that it was her belief that they were receiving sum of between IR£500 and IR£2,500 and calling them political donations.
Muldoon, who gave evidence to the Mahon planning corruption tribunal in 2006, said that there was a pressure within the accept these corrupt payments. She says she thinks that that the payment being declared as donations prevented the Tribunal properly investigating the whole problem.
She said that even within Fine Gael there was perception that a councillor would be ostracised if they didn't accept payments.
Mary also believes that her progression within the party was thwarted because she was a clean politician. During her evidence to the Tribunal she said that the owner of farm land trying to rezoned visited her home in 1992. She refused to vote for it and one of the men shook her hand and said: "It's nice to meet an honest politician".
This will provide much fodder for the diehard Ahern and Flynn supporters who will grasp at any straw to divert attention from their beloved former ministers. But, whatever way you look at it, it's not great news for Fine Gael.

About the author

Denis McEvoy
Perplexed enough by reality, so doesn't do hypotheticals.
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Dyr · 28-03-2012 10:59pm

Never, and I've been voting since the early 90s. Nobody in this country can claim that they didn't know how bent fianna fail were after the haughey era. Bertie gave people what they wanted and they were willing to turn a blind eye.

BrianD · 28-03-2012 11:01pm

Councillors from all parties seem to be hard at it in every county. There's also the other breed of councillor who didn't personally gain financially but were still abusing their authority to make things happen for certain people and developers. They were literally making millionaires out of people by recolouring the maps. FG were pretty well represented in most councils?

An interesting project for somebody would be to look at the planning history of these ghost estates and see what influence councillors had in the planning process.

Anyway, what counts as voting for FF? I generally work my way down the list. SF never make it and FF might just about. Have never given FF a 1 or 2.

Tim Robbins · 28-03-2012 11:16pm

I voted FF in 2002. Reasons:
1. Jim Glennon was an intelligent sounding politician.
2. There was no PD candidate on the ticket
3. FG were coming out with crap such bailing out eircom shareholders.
4. I am not public sector so labour were not an option.
5. I voted Green 2. FG 3. And another FF candidate 4.

I hated FF guts by 2007. But still voted PD.
I really hated their FF guts in 2011.

raymon · 28-03-2012 11:49pm

margio wrote: »

Your some clown

Are you sure that this is the best reply you can come up with.

I mention Charles Haughey (FF), Ray Burke(FF), Frank Dunlop(FF), Liam Lawlor(FF), Beverly Cooper-Flynn(FF), Padraig Flynn, Bertie Ahern(FF) ,Ivor Callely (FF), Michael Lowry (FG) - and your response is " you're some clown" and some blog from Joe.ie

* I hope you don't mind me pointing out that "you're" is spelt differently

Pride Fighter · 28-03-2012 11:54pm

BrianD wrote: »

Councillors from all parties seem to be hard at it in every county. There's also the other breed of councillor who didn't personally gain financially but were still abusing their authority to make things happen for certain people and developers. They were literally making millionaires out of people by recolouring the maps. FG were pretty well represented in most councils?

An interesting project for somebody would be to look at the planning history of these ghost estates and see what influence councillors had in the planning process.

Anyway, what counts as voting for FF? I generally work my way down the list. SF never make it and FF might just about. Have never given FF a 1 or 2.

Would not tar all councillors with the same brush. Lab, SF and Green were generally clean. Seeing as they had about 10-15% of the councillors between the late 80's and mid 2000's only 85-90% of the councillors, mainly FF, FG and Independents were corrupt.

thecommietommy · 29-03-2012 3:11pm

I used to vote for the Irish Republican Socialist Party once in my younger days - eeeek !

[Deleted User] · 29-03-2012 7:09pm

raymon wrote: »

Are you sure that this is the best reply you can come up with.

I mention Charles Haughey (FF), Ray Burke(FF), Frank Dunlop(FF), Liam Lawlor(FF), Beverly Cooper-Flynn(FF), Padraig Flynn, Bertie Ahern(FF) ,Ivor Callely (FF), Michael Lowry (FG) - and your response is " you're some clown" and some blog from Joe.ie

* I hope you don't mind me pointing out that "you're" is spelt differently

Your wasting your time with that one, as i said before if Fianna fail committed genocide she would still vote for them. It will probably take a generation for that kind of ignorance to die out.:rolleyes:

john reilly · 29-03-2012 8:36pm

thecommietommy wrote: »

I used to vote for the Irish Republican Socialist Party once in my younger days - eeeek !

Eamonn Gilmore, was it?

Zombrex · 29-03-2012 10:29pm

Wider Road wrote: »

Going by your opinion, you need to explain Joe Higgin's radio interview last weekend. He said 3 to 4 times that FG & FF leaders knew in the 80's & 90's that they had corrupt councillors in Dublin. FG & FF deputy's were present and kept quiet!
Why?

Everyone knew there were corrupt councillors in Dublin during the 80s and 90s. I'm sorry, what are you actually asking?

margio · 29-03-2012 11:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Your wasting your time with that one, as i said before if Fianna fail committed genocide she would still vote for them. It will probably take a generation for that kind of ignorance to die out.:rolleyes:

yeah and your one to talk, aren't you. I have an opinion, and it's my opinion, just as you have yours, but obviously you can't respect opinions that differ from yours, and thats what I call ignorance. What Mayo got from Padraig Flynn, though is questionable, I admit that:D do you call that corruption?. When travelling up to the North Wset as a child, the road from Galway up amazed me. How come the other provinces hadn't got nothing from him. Never saw main roads like them before, and every person we mentioned the lovely roads that they had, they all replied, good old Padraig Flynn. Yee made out better that any other part of the country from his term as EU commissioner. Now, that is corruption, that we're all happy to turn a blind eye to. I bet you he wasn't a corrupt pric, when he was bringing home the bacon. Corruption goes on in political life every day, and if you think that FF were the only ones at it, then dream on.

fat__tony · 30-03-2012 3:57am

margio wrote: »

I voted Fianna Fail all my life as my family have done for generations. Yes my faith in the party has been damaged, but I would consider voting for them again, depending on the candidate etc.At the moment I would still be in the Republican spctrum, ie Fianna Fail/Sinn Fein. Although I think Fianna Fail has forgotten it's republican roots, and that's where the party went wrong.

Christ, people like you are sad and pathetic.

margio · 30-03-2012 1:03pm

fat__tony wrote: »

Christ, people like you are sad and pathetic.

Speak for yourself, who I vote for is my business, so your the sad and pathetic one, if you can't respect some one elses views, then insult them. who the hell do you think you are?. You can't tell people who they should or should not vote for. How bloody dare you. I'm free to vote for who I like , when I like. It's called a democracy

fcussen · 30-03-2012 1:20pm

margio wrote: »

Speak for yourself, who I vote for is my business, so your the sad and pathetic one, if you can't respect some one elses views, then insult them. who the hell do you think you are?. You can't tell people who they should or should not vote for. How bloody dare you. I'm free to vote for who I like , when I like. It's called a democracy

We're also perfectly entitled to chastise and ridicule you for doing so. Especially given that the myopic decision process of people like you when voting results in all of us having to suffer the almost unbroken rule of clueless gombeens whose fathers had the same job as them.

Did You ever vote Fianna Fail?

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