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If you were a father , could you accept this decision?

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    #32
    The_Pretender
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭The_Pretender


    I think the mother is getting far more of the blame here compared to the man.

    People are saying that it's incredibly easy to go over the speed limit, especially with a powerful car and when you've been driving a long time etc. but seriously, 45km/h over the limit? You can't not know you're doing that speed. If you intended on sticking to 110km then maybe it could slip up to 125km without realising. But no way in hell can you unintentionally get up to 125km/h in an 80km zone without knowing, and if your ability to tell what speed you're doing is that weak then you should be paying more attention to your speedo.

    As for the mother, we really really need to know the layout of the road in order to be able to properly judge. I've seen some very poorly marked 'No right turns'.

    There's no doubting that she shouldn't have gone unless safe to do so, but it could have been a case that if the guy was doing the speed limit he would have had plenty of time to see her moving out and slow down in time. They were both very much at fault.


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    #33
    hansfrei
    Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭hansfrei


    Story is carried in lots of Aussie papers. Pictures too.


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    #34
    wandatowell
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    It was a terrible tragedy. Putting the guy in jail would serve no purpose other than revenge as he is not exactly a menace to society. I am sure living with himself is sentence enough.

    Its not often that I would agree with the argument of "living with himself is sentence enough" but in this case its a fair call.


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    #35
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    I think a Father in that situation would have a difficult time accepting any decision. Having said that; I think the decision is pretty fair.


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    #36
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Well it does, in that if he had been doing 80 the three kids might not have died. Tremendous difference in energy and stopping distances between collisions at those two speeds.



    Every single day am in traffic on major roads where practically everyone is doing similar speeds. Its not outrageous, its not uncommon and its not reasonable to say that the woman should not reasonably have expected the drivers on that road to be doing that sort of speed.


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    #37
    The_Pretender
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭The_Pretender


    Wabbit Ears wrote: »
    Every single day am in traffic on major roads where practically everyone is doing similar speeds. Its not outrageous, its not uncommon and its not reasonable to say that the woman should not reasonably have expected the drivers on that road to be doing that sort of speed.

    I have no doubt you're telling the truth, but it that's the case then it's absolutely crazy. Even if she was turning in the direction she was supposed to, it'd be like coming on to a motorway in 1st/2nd gear.


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    They are both to blame. Her making a wrong turn and his speeding caused the deaths of those children and the mother. He involuntarily killed those people, they involuntarily got themselves killed.


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    #39
    The_Pretender
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭The_Pretender


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They are both to blame. Her making a wrong turn and his speeding caused the deaths of those children and the mother. He involuntarily killed those people, she involuntarily got them killed.

    Corrected that for you.


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    #40
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    And what if she deliberately chose to take the illegal turn to get somewhere quicker?
    What if she was drunk at the time?
    What if she was pouring her third glass of vodka as she turned left?
    What if she did it deliberately?

    What if, what if, what if.

    The media have reported it as an error, presumably based on the official testimony, and unless it is contested I see no reason to doubt it.


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    #41
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    errlloyd wrote: »
    So you think all that is relevant is intent? That's fair enough, I think Japan is like that. But if all that matters is intent then you have to treat the male driver like anyone else speeding - you can't treat him worse just because his speeding happened to end in death.
    Oryx wrote: »
    His offence is speeding, and that is all. He should have and probably was penalised in the same way as every other person who speeds. The same potential outcome is there for all of those too. So if you want heavier sentencing, it needs to be on all who commit the same offence. It was a trick of fate that gave this incident such a tragic outcome.

    I'd agree. Imagine that guns are legal for the sake of argument. If I go out into my back garden and fire a gun in the air, I could get done for for shooting a gun within city limits. But if the bullet happens to hit somebody a quarter of a mile away, then I can get charged with manslaughter. This never made sense to me; I've done the exact same thing with the exact same risks in both cases but in one case there was somebody standing in the path of the falling bullet so the punishment is different.

    I think that the fine for speeding in this country is way too low; €80 and 2 penalty points is very little deterrant.

    The chances of getting caught are way too low. There is even an iPhone app which will tell you when you're approaching a speed camera.


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    #42
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »
    How do you know it was intentional? Do you drive? Have you never broken the speed limit unintentionally?
    Yes I drive, and yes I have accidentally broken the speed limit, and I have knowingly made illegal turns, which I only realized after other drivers made their anger known.

    I have never "accidentally" gone 45km/hr over the speed limit. Do people understand how much faster that feels, in a car? I do not see it reported anywhere that the driver claims to have made an error.


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    #43
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    YDo people understand how much faster that feels, in a car?

    It completely depends on the car. I don't know what he was driving, but there are plenty of cars where you wouldn't feel any difference.


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    #44
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »

    I have never "accidentally" gone 45km/hr over the speed limit. Do people understand how much faster that feels, in a car? I do not see it reported anywhere that the driver claims to have made an error.
    It honestly doesn't feel that much faster once you get to around the 70/80 mark.


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    #45
    The_Pretender
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭The_Pretender


    SV wrote: »
    It honestly doesn't feel that much faster once you get to around the 70/80 mark.

    Even still, if you were concentrating on the road you would usually be able to by how fast you go by sign posts etc.

    Anyway, if he accidentally went 45km/h over the speed limit, he obviously wasn't concentrating on what he should be concentrating on, the road in front of him.


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    #46
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    The_Pretender wrote: »
    Even still, if you were concentrating on the road you would usually be able to by how fast you go by sign posts etc.

    Anyway, if he accidentally went 45km/h over the speed limit, he obviously wasn't concentrating on what he should be concentrating on, the road in front of him.

    You've never drove a powerful car, have you? It can be very deceiving, mo matter how hard you're concentrating


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    #47
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    SV wrote: »
    It honestly doesn't feel that much faster once you get to around the 70/80 mark.
    It honestly does.
    SV wrote: »
    You've never drove a powerful car, have you?
    oh gawd. what makes you think the other driver wasn't driving an austin metro?


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    #48
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    It honestly does.


    oh gawd. what makes you think the other driver wasn't driving an austin metro?

    Nothing, simply stating a fact. And no it doesn't. If it does I can only assume you drive an underpowered car.


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    #49
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    SV wrote: »
    I can only assume you drive an underpowered car.
    Good one. I only assume you're hung like a church mouse.

    see how that works?


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    #50
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Good one. I only assume you're hung like a church mouse.

    see how that works?

    nobody cares what car you drive on the internet.

    That only works if he made an incorrect claim about what it is like to have big balls. He didn't though.


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    #51
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Good one. I only assume you're hung like a church mouse.

    see how that works?

    If I'd said anything relevant to sex then uh..maybe that'd make sense.


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    #52
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    That only works if he made an incorrect claim about what it is like to have big balls. He didn't though.
    The car driver hasn't made a claim to having a powerful car, in which the perception of speed-time is warped.


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    #53
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    The car driver hasn't made a claim to having a powerful car, in which the perception of speed-time is warped.

    No but the point was IF he was driving a powerful car then doing that much over the speed limit by accident is very possible.


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    #54
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    The car driver hasn't made a claim to having a powerful car, in which the perception of speed-time is warped.

    And nobody ever said he made such a claim.


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    #55
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    SV wrote: »
    No but the point was IF he was driving a powerful car then doing that much over the speed limit by accident is very possible.
    IF he were asleep in the back seat and a madman had taken the wheel then doing that much over the speed limit by accident is also very possible.

    Do you understand how dumb this is? You're inventing scenarios that he himself has never raised, so far as we know.


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    #56
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    IF he were asleep in the back seat and a madman had taken the wheel then doing that much over the speed limit by accident is also very possible.

    Do you understand how dumb this is? You're inventing scenarios that he himself has never raised, so far as we know.

    Your scenario is rather unlikely, people driving powerful cars is fairly common. Do you understand how dumb this is?


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    #57
    Cycling Dumbasses
    Registered Users Posts: 417 ✭✭Cycling Dumbasses


    45kph over limit, speed kills.


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    #58
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    IF he were asleep in the back seat and a madman had taken the wheel then doing that much over the speed limit by accident is also very possible.

    Do you understand how dumb this is? You're inventing scenarios that he himself has never raised, so far as we know.

    Right, you've never drove a powerful car if you think it's not possible. Fair enough.


    No one said he made that claim, it's lending credit to the theory he could have done it by accident. How are you unable to grasp that?


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    #59
    The_Pretender
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭The_Pretender


    This getting OT. The driver was going over 50% faster than he should have been. Had he not, the mother, who was still definitely in the wrong as well, would have had 50% more time to complete her manuever and it's possible three children wouldn't be dead.


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    #60
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Cycling Dumbasses wrote: »
    45kph over limit, speed kills.

    So does illegal turns unfortunately.


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    #61
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    SV wrote: »
    Right, you've never drove a powerful car if you think it's not possible. Fair enough.
    You're clearly on some weird mission here, which has nothing to do with the thread.

    We get it. You think you have a fast car. Why don't you post up a picture of your toyota celica and get it over and done with.


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