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Mahon Tribunal report

135

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    I'm sure the Sunday (FF Newsletter) Independent is working overtime to make the report sound less damaging to FF


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭timesnap


    raymon wrote: »
    I'm sure the Sunday (FF Newsletter) Independent is working overtime to make the report sound less damaging to FF
    The most dignified thing they could do is disband at this stage.
    they might not have been the only guilty party but they were by far the worst as details unfold.
    good god people are excusing Bertie now because of his role in the GFA,someone should tell them that one right does not excuse his many wrongs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,068 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Just listening to discussion on Liveline and someone said that if ahern was brought to court today he would not be found guilty of anything.

    But if a normal member of society was found to have had large cash transactions, in and out of bank accounts at their disposal, that they can not provide adequate documentation to prove the authenticity of those funds, then they could be investigated by CAB and Revenue.

    Now I think it is vital that CAB and Revenue investigate ahern and flynn much like they have investigated john gilligan or any other criminal.

    Where are the differences between gilligan claiming funds in his accounts were from gambling and the claims made under oath by b ahern ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Fifteen years and a quarter of a billion euro to find out something the dogs in the street already knew:

    The dogs on the street may have known but I can't recall the number of (mostly FFers) who wouldn't make their mind up about Bertie until the report was released and Mahon told them how to think. Well now the report is out. I'd love to hear from these posters. I won't mention them by name because that'll be deemed as 'getting personal' but you know who you are.

    So if you've waited until Mahon is published to comment, well it is published.....so comment?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    timesnap wrote: »
    The most dignified thing they could do is disband at this stage.
    they might not have been the only guilty party but they were by far the worst as details unfold.
    good god people are excusing Bertie now because of his role in the GFA,someone should tell them that one right does not excuse his many wrongs.

    Indeed. Lets not forget that it wasn't just Bertie that was up to shenanigans, Padraig Flynn, Ray Burke and Liam Lawlor were also up to their oxters in corruption. MM may try and draw a line on it by expelling Ahern but I can't see how that will remove the taint of dodginess from FF.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭timesnap


    jmayo wrote: »
    Just listening to discussion on Liveline and someone said that if ahern was brought to court today he would not be found guilty of anything.

    But if a normal member of society was found to have had large cash transactions, in and out of bank accounts at their disposal, that they can provide adequate documentation to prove the authenticity of those funds, then they could be investigated by CAB and Revenue.

    Now I think it is vital that CAB and Revenue investigate ahern and flynn much like they have investigated john gilligan or any other criminal.

    Where are the differences between gilligan claiming funds in his accounts were from gambling and the claims made under oath by b ahern ?

    Its a good question jmayo,does anybody know could CAB's terms of reference allow those mentioned in the report to be treated like any other criminal?
    my understanding of CAB is it does not need as much evidence to investigate how people have their wealth or properties beyond their declared income


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭SeaFields


    It was mentioned almost immediately by the government, once the details became clear, that the report would be passed on to the Garda Commissioner, the Director of Public Prosecutions, the Revenue Commissioners and to the Standards in Public Office Commission.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭timesnap


    SeaFields wrote: »
    It was mentioned almost immediately by the government, once the details became clear, that the report would be passed on to the Garda Commissioner, the Director of Public Prosecutions, the Revenue Commissioners and to the Standards in Public Office Commission.

    All of the above are somewhat implicated in at least turning the blind eye.
    only for costs i wish an international body of some kind could investigate,pity we are such a small Country that we do not have something like the feds in the US.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,113 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    timesnap wrote: »
    All of the above are somewhat implicated in at least turning the blind eye.
    only for costs i wish an international body of some kind could investigate,pity we are such a small Country that we do not have something like the feds in the US.

    The 'never-been-involved-in-any-scandal-ever' feds? What TV world do you live in?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    The systematic corruption within the political system is just sick.

    Kinda ironic saying that when your party FF were at the heart of it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    SeaFields wrote: »
    It was mentioned almost immediately by the government, once the details became clear, that the report would be passed on to the Garda Commissioner, the Director of Public Prosecutions, the Revenue Commissioners and to the Standards in Public Office Commission.

    Where it will sit quietly gathering dust


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,452 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    jank wrote: »
    Kinda ironic saying that when your party FF were at the heart of it.

    Indeed, and that does not make it any more acceptable in the slightest.
    jonsnow wrote: »
    Where it will sit quietly gathering dust

    Most likely unfortunately - just look at the Moriarty Tribunal. One year exactly to the day since it was published and there has been absolutely no movement on any sort of disciplinary action being taken against those who were implicated in its findings.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭timesnap


    Dodge wrote: »
    The 'never-been-involved-in-any-scandal-ever' feds? What TV world do you live in?
    I will answer you Dodge when i get clarification from a mod that it is ok to reply to you in the way i would wish to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    I believe the disbandment of Fianna Fail would be good for this country. They are the party of corruption and chicanery. Cleanse politics here by getting shot of them.

    Ceremonially bury corruption with them. Then come down like a ton of bricks on anyone that dare to do wrong in politics from here on in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    woodoo wrote: »
    I believe the disbandment of Fianna Fail would be good for this country. They are the party of corruption and chicanery. Cleanse politics here by getting shot of them.

    Ceremonially bury corruption with them. Then come down like a ton of bricks on anyone that dare to do wrong in politics from here on in.


    Corruption didn't start with FF and it certainly wouldn't end with them, sadly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    woodoo wrote: »
    I believe the disbandment of Fianna Fail would be good for this country. They are the party of corruption and chicanery. Cleanse politics here by getting shot of them.

    Ceremonially bury corruption with them. Then come down like a ton of bricks on anyone that dare to do wrong in politics from here on in.

    Unfortunately, the people of Ireland had the chance to do that in the last election and while the vast majority of them turned their back on FF, there were enough eejits left to give them a vote.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    timesnap wrote: »
    Dodge wrote:
    The 'never-been-involved-in-any-scandal-ever' feds? What TV world do you live in?
    I will answer you Dodge when i get clarification from a mod that it is ok to reply to you in the way i would wish to.

    No, I think Dodge could have been less "smart" there.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭timesnap


    woodoo wrote: »
    I believe the disbandment of Fianna Fail would be good for this country.
    Never thought i would agree with this,Bertie and the rest had me and my family fooled like many others.
    at the last election it was clear FF had to leave office,i wanted them punished but not drop to 20 seats.

    FG would never have got a vote from my family(except i am told Gareth F)
    too late for many now, even so we badly need a root and branch change of the whole relationship between Govt and certain institutions of the state,a hands off approach to who selects judges etc etc etc,
    the problem is how do we start from scratch?
    FG were born of civil war politics as well.

    the phrase 'A pox on all their house's' comes to mind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭scholar007


    Surely to God, Fianna Fáil have to disband now! It is the only right course of action open to whats left of them at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Matt Cooper laying in to that waffler Calleary on Today FM, now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,068 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Corruption didn't start with FF and it certainly wouldn't end with them, sadly.

    No, but it would be a good start to see that party consigned to the wastebin as a lesson to others.
    Also it would be nice to see the dodgy politicans punished for their misdemeanours both in a court and in their pockets (through by fines, back taxes and loss of pension rights).
    The last one would be the real humdinger imho.

    Added to that the last major step would be for the electorate to cop to fook on and stop voting for people of dodgy repute.
    Godge wrote: »
    Unfortunately, the people of Ireland had the chance to do that in the last election and while the vast majority of them turned their back on FF, there were enough eejits left to give them a vote.

    The people of Ireland had that chance in 2007 to make a decision on ff and ahern, nevermind the last election.
    Hell Kenny and Rabittes ratings took a tumble for continuing to question the dealings of ahern.
    That is why when I hear ex ff voters lambast them I dispair.
    All the stories were out there, there had already been evidence of top ministers with their hand in the cookie jar.
    There was already the stench hanging off them.
    But people chose to ignore them because they were doing ok out of it.
    timesnap wrote: »
    Never thought i would agree with this,Bertie and the rest had me and my family fooled like many others.
    at the last election it was clear FF had to leave office,i wanted them punished but not drop to 20 seats.

    So punished, but not decimated.
    Ahh the power of the dark side ff was still there.

    BTW how many seats would you have liked them to drop to ?
    timesnap wrote: »
    FG would never have got a vote from my family(except i am told Gareth F)
    too late for many now, even so we badly need a root and branch change of the whole relationship between Govt and certain institutions of the state,a hands off approach to who selects judges etc etc etc,

    It has nothing to do with who selects judges or even the way institutions operate.

    It has to do with how people like you and your family continued to vote for ff, a party that was already proven to have been led by a corrupt lowlife theive who would even steal from his dying friends.
    The same party that as one of it's top people and ministers consigned to jail for corruption, the same party that had shamelesly and arrogantly wasted taxpayes money.

    Did you and your family care to think that the same corrupt leader had once labelled the same ahern as one of the cutest of them all.
    Hardly a good sign now was it. :rolleyes:

    timesnap wrote: »
    the phrase 'A pox on all their house's' comes to mind.

    Ah you see you are resorting to labelling them all the same.
    That could be labelled as a typical ff repsonse around here btw.
    That way it makes the shower you would have supported appear less bad now wouldn't it ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    Bertie is doing two things right now; laughing and wondering can he get a few bob if he has grounds to sue for defamation, how ever slight it is.

    What I don't get about FFail in relation to this most recent assesment;
    I honestly believe there are people who mean no ill will to the rest of us non-members, there just must be. But how do they, in good conscience remain affiliated with this abortion of a democratic party? The 'If you're not an FFail flag waver, **** you' attitude is what gets me. Me, Party, Country in that order.
    The only reason I can see for anybody wanting to be tied to FFail is because there's money in it for them or they are blinkered civil war voters.
    The rafts of FFail apologists will be on stating 'no charges brought, sure we're clean as a whistle' will be sickening and a repeat of what we hear after every scandal...even the word 'scandal' is too dull and over used in relation to FFail.
    As long as they have a core of self centered and civil war minded voters, honest or not, they will be a breeding ground for chancers, liars and thieves.
    The report will be brushed off, Martin will dust off the 'We've since cleaned house' spiel and in another ten or so years we'll be privy to the same scenario all over again.
    If what ever FFail pretends to stand for actually means anything to you, they're ****ing you over, just so you know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭Byron85


    Just took this from Joe.ie.
    The report is scathing about attacks on it from Government ministers in 2007, when Bertie Ahern was still Taoiseach. The report also goes on to detail other attacks on its credibility:

    "It was perhaps inevitable that some of those individuals would attempt to blacken the name of the Tribunal in order to undermine its inquiries and its ultimate findings. Had the Tribunal found favour with those individuals or in the sectors of the media supportive of them, this would have been the first indication that the Tribunal was not doing its job.

    "Nevertheless, not all the Tribunal's critics fall into this category. On the one hand, some of the more sustained and virulent attacks on the Tribunal went beyond what could be termed as normal unpopularity and are best viewed as attempts to compromise its integrity and independence."

    This is VERY serious; even more serious than the corruption findings and allegations in my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,188 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Wouldnt like to be the FF spokesperson on Vincent Browne tonight if this is the subject of discussion. He will rip them a new one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    The bold brazen Bertie turned up at the FF Ard Fheis a few weeks ago, knowing full well, IMO, what the report about him contained. He was welcomed by many, I do believe, with open arms. What was his game there? Not sure that Martin will have the balls to kick Ahern out of the party.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    timesnap wrote: »
    Never thought i would agree with this,Bertie and the rest had me and my family fooled like many others.
    at the last election it was clear FF had to leave office,i wanted them punished but not drop to 20 seats.

    You are kidding right? This stuff has been well known for decades so the idea they "fooled" you or your family is as believable as Bertie's evidence.

    There are many politicians, bankers and developers to blame for the economic crisis in Ireland which has cost so many people their likelihoods and put Ireland in austerity for the future years, if not decades, to come, BUT "you", as in the people who voted FF, are as much to blame as they are and no amount of "I was fooled" will ever excuse that. The majority of voters kept on encouraging FF and approved how they behaved by giving them mandate after mandate.

    I get to say this now, FOR SHAME.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Corruption didn't start with FF and it certainly wouldn't end with them, sadly.

    People need only read my signature to see that I didnt need to spend €300m to know that corruption wasnt limited to FF.

    Getting rid of FF doesnt get rid of the problem. Its like saying the solution to aids is to kill most African's where the problem is most rife and eventually the problem will sort itself out!!!

    There might not be any quickfix solution to this, but two of the things required are transparency and accountability within not just politics, but throughout any state body. This "untouchable" culture has to be crushed and frowned upon.

    The next thing required is a revolution of thinking by our electorate. Unfortunatley in the last election it showed that there is very little desire to actually fight for a real change (again see my signature for a reference, I am not a prophet like McWilliams, but I knew this government would be giving us much of the same Sh*t). People made "anybody by FF" a significant factor in how they voted which took the focus off reform presuming that this strategy would improve the political structure.

    People need to DEMAND action . . Not accept platitudes and waffle from our government that things will change . . Sacrifices should be demanded, certain privaleges enjoyed by our politicians.
    • Every TD expense should be accounted for (why I have to say this is beyond me!)
    • Any TD who meets a business person etc has to log it officially. Anybody who doesnt will be suspended pending an investigation.
    • Any TD (Councellors) in power has to supply their own banking and financial details for 4 years previous and continually until they are 5 years out of office. This information is available not publically, but to the DPP in the event of a complaint or allegation against any politician.
    These are just a few things of many I think need to be made. They cannot be trusted to rule themselves, not necessarily because many of them are at it, but because the political will to go after their own is not there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭timesnap


    jmayo wrote: »
    So punished, but not decimated.
    Ahh the power of the dark side ff was still there.
    BTW how many seats would you have liked them to drop to ?
    The power of the darkside,are you trying to stir it or should that ridiculous statement not have been placed in another forum?
    the reason i did not want them to drop to 20 seats was for fear that we would end up with another one party state,just like it was under FF.
    It has nothing to do with who selects judges or even the way institutions operate.
    It has EVERYTHING to do with who selects judges,those who sat on the board of fas,which party has enough councilors to rezone land for builders greed..... list is endless.
    It has to do with how people like you and your family continued to vote for ff, a party that was already proven to have been led by a corrupt lowlife theive who would even steal from his dying friends.
    The same party that as one of it's top people and ministers consigned to jail for corruption, the same party that had shamelesly and arrogantly wasted taxpayes money.

    If you bothered your arse to read back you will notice i am talking about my family tree and its history of voting FF due to both FF&FG being born from civil war politics,it just so happens my ancestors came down on the Anti-treaty side.
    what age do you think i am?,i am getting a bit pissed at the way some people seem to have carte-blanch to be rude on the politics forum whilst others are having their posts deleted on their 5th post.
    Did you and your family care to think that the same corrupt leader had once labelled the same ahern as one of the cutest of them all.
    Hardly a good sign now was it. :rolleyes:
    How clever of you there but you do know that CJ never actually said that as it often quoted,it was an urban legend that grew from a much less colorful quote from Haughy.
    Ah you see you are resorting to labelling them all the same.
    That could be labelled as a typical ff repsonse around here btw.
    That way it makes the shower you would have supported appear less bad now wouldn't it ?
    Around here? what does that mean exactly, a clique who post on the politics forum and like only the posts they agree with or thank the mods they fear will infract them.?
    grow up or grow down whichever applies to you.
    Did i mention that i have no time for people who make their points by using the :rolleyes: smiley?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,327 ✭✭✭Trampas


    "After spending over a decade of inquiries and countless millions of euros, the Tribunal has not made - nor could it make - a finding to support the scurrilous and untrue allegation allegation that I had been given a corrupt payment by Mr Owen O'Callaghan (the Cork based developer of Quarryvale) or any of his companies" - Bertie Ahern


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    If he explained his lies and where the money came from it would be a start. Did he win the $45,000 on a horse?? Will he ever tell the truth!


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