Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert **See Mod Warning Post #1**

I'm not exactly a new teacher but not in a union either. Personally I want to hold off on joining one because I want to see how this plays out. Unions have just rolled over too many times in the past for me to give them my money in subs. There way they've allowed new teachers pay and conditions to be eroded just makes me not trust them at all.

I taught in England during strikes and it was very different. Union members who wanted to strike did, those who didnt want to strike came to school and there wasnt any judgement of young new staff who werent in a union, coming into school on a strike day. From the tone of this thread, especially the use of the term scab, Im guessing there is going to be a lot of judgement.

endakenny wrote: »

It may have been argued in the past that the abolition of the Primary Cert would leave pupils unprepared for secondary education but that fear didn't materialise. The same logic applies to the transition from JCSA to LC.

I'm not so sure the same logic applies at all….

Ive seen many a student who benefitted greatly from the rude awakening the JC gave them …where no amount of advice or warnings succeded beforehand…the stark reality of the result gave them a good insight into just what was really required to avoid a repeat performance in the Leaving Cert. I've also seen it motivate and increase the confidence of weaker students who were rewarded for their hard work.

I suppose the opposite could be true for another cohort of students but on balance I felt it did a lot less harm than good.

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Even as prep for the Leaving Cert, the Junior Cert has worth and makes it more than a house exam as far as a stepping stone is concerned. Everything about it as it is currently prepares a student for the Leaving Certificate exam, which most would argue is an important factor.

Decision makers make mistakes, and they get challenged in democracies. Do you believe Irish Water has been well thought out? The same crowd are in charge.

Re: selfishness, I'll quite happily admit that as an English teacher, I resent the fact that I'll have to do more work over the school calender for the next few years (without payment) than many of my colleagues who teach different subjects that haven't yet been phased in (and may not be for several years.)

What extra work? Curricular change is JC English hasn't happened for 25 years so a new syllabus is well due. The school-based assessments involve a 3 min oral presentation at the end of 2nd year & a collection of their written assignments over 2nd & 3rd year. Both of these will take place in normal school time & I can't see how it's much different than what you do already. Much better to have other forms of assessment for English than a written exam in June of 3rd year.

endakenny wrote: »

If they didn't do well at Higher Level subjects in the JC then they won't do well at Higher Level subjects in the LC. Surely, house exams and mock exams prepare them for JC exams.

Furthermore, there will still be terminal exams in the JCSA. Therefore, they will be prepared for the LC.

The JCSA will have the Department's logo on the cert. Therefore, it will be a (sort of ) State certificate.

There are students every year who insist on taking Higher Level in a subject/ subjects when they are clearly not suited to Higher Level and would be better taking Ordinary level and then they fail higher level. It is a shame to see them fail when they could have achieved a passing grade at ordinary level. It is also the wake up call for some of them.

The new JCSA only has Higher and Ordinary Level for English, Irish and Maths. It has a Common Level for everything else and the grades will not be the traditional A, B, C, D etc.

A School Certificate of Learning which will state the grades achieved by the
student in the subjects and short courses that they complete. There will be
five grade points – Not achieved (0 – 39%), Achieved (40 – 54%), Achieved
with Merit (55 – 74%), Achieved with Higher Merit (75 – 89%) and Achieved
with Distinction (90 – 100%).

I can see a lot of students ending up getting 'Achieved' grades in this new common level approach to all the other subjects at JCSA and because there is no distinction between HL and OL like there is now, they will believe they are able for the equivalent HL Leaving Cert subject and that is often not the case.

Boober Fraggle wrote: »

I have no problem with 40% continuous assessment, I don't see it as the problem at all. External assessment would be necessary though. It's done in enough subjects as it is, and I'm sure subject teachers would be able to come up with a viable option for continuous assessment in their own subjects, that could be assessed externally, languages and practicals are easy to organise, surely projects (that aren't just done by the teacher) can be assessed along with the exam in July.
I think we will be balloted again rather than a straight out strike action...

I have a major problem with assessing my own students,full stop! Firstly.I am their teacher,not their judge. Secondly,I don't see the logic in changing what's not broken for what has been proved to be broken in other countries.The neo liberals who run this country have already done enough damage with their "smash and grab" policies and now they basically want to shove in a cheaper but ill conceived alternative to the state exam, onto to a school system which has no structures set up for it.Talk about loading the donkey as another poster aptly described it! Thirdly,I am very worried about our working conditions and our ability to cope if this comes in,considering the demolition of our conditions to date.And the resulting consequences on our students,so go figure that one out! And lastly,as I've said numerous times,external assessment will only greatly increase the pressure on the teacher. Marking may be fine in some subjects where the answers are either correct or incorrect,but take English,where it is very subjective! No teacher should be forced to do that unless by choice and for payment,as in the current system.

So,therefore keep the current system of 100% external,anonymous marking of anonymous,numbered exam candidates,for everybody's sake.

implausible wrote: »

Of course I'm engaging with learning outcomes and assessment! Every subject has learning outcomes and assessment! I teach 1st, 2nd, 4rd, 5th and 6th year English, I am constantly marking copies, this is assessment! Should I stop in case I be accused of going against a union directive? Should I stop telling my class at the start what they will learn in case this is verboten?

The teaching of English has not changed radically in first year, you still teach them how to write a report for example, except when the JCSA comes in, you'll have to explicitly match that up to a learning outcome in your planning. The major change will arrive when we have to gather up a collection of work and conduct an oral examination in second year.

Teachers are using new books, not because of radically new content, but because it makes planning easier and eventually will make it easier to focus on oral language.

Not only do you think this JCSA is inevitable,you appear to actively support it. Perhaps you might tell us why?

By focusing on the JCSA curriculum, you are most certainly contravening a union directive. The current curriculum and its assessment does not include the term,"learning outcomes", a nothing buzz word dreamt up by the proponents of a narrow education philosophy which is "outcomes" or quite simply, results, obsessed. I also disagree with your earlier comment that the current system needs to change.Certain changes need to be made for sure, but changes and updated syllabus can be incorporated into the present system. I also teach English and you are quite wrong to assume that the majority of teachers have changed the course book.I know for a fact that all the schools in the large town where I teach have stuck with their old texts and have not changed their practice.

endakenny wrote: »

The JCSA will still be a stepping stone; it'll have the Department's logo on the certificate and it will reduce stress by reducing the emphasis on terminal exams, meaning that the end-of-junior-cycle assessment will be more than just a rehearsal for the LC and will let students conserve their mental energy for the LC.

It may have been argued in the past that the abolition of the Primary Cert would leave pupils unprepared for secondary education but that fear didn't materialise. The same logic applies to the transition from JCSA to LC.

You are not a teacher,Enda,so you basically don't know what you're talking about! You are constantly on these threads asking all sorts of questions,which many posters,myself included,have taken the trouble to answer in full. Your interest in all of this seems to be purely academic but it's my bread and butter as well as my profession and my career and I'm starting to find your constant interjections tiresome!

I think the unions have missed a beat here with the timing of the strike.

I think a better idea would have been to call a half day strike from lunch time on Wed 10th Dec and join in the water charges protest.

I don't really give a $h1t€ about having the support of the public, they are largely a shower of race to the bottom, pay peanuts get monkeys, ill informed plebs, who firmly believe they know what a teacher's job entails simply by having gone to school for 6 years.

I don't think striking achieves Anything though.

All that had to be done was return the continuous assessment project books to sender and refuse to monitor them.


I won't go against the Union directive but once again, I'm left disappointed by Union leadership.

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I think the unions have missed a beat here with them timing of the strike.

I think a better idea would have been to call a half day strike from lunch time on We'd 10th Dec and join in the world after charges protest.

I don't really give a $h1t€ about having th support of the public, they are largely a shower of race to the bottom, pay peanuts get monkeys, ill informed plebs, who firmly believe they know what a teacher's job entails simply by havung gone to school for 6 years.

I don't think striking achieves Anything though.

All that had to be done was return the continuous assessment project books to sender and refuse to monitor them.


I won't go against the Union directive but once again, I'm left disappointed by Union leadership.

There are no project books as there is no continuous assessment. There are 2 school based assessments which require nothing to be sent to anyone outside the school. The Minister has offered some external monitoring but otherwise the results would be decided after moderation.

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Ah yes, but in what subject(s)?

We can't give in on this.

This is the Rock the profession could perish on.

Enough is enough, feck off with this bolloxology and go back to the drawing board Jan.

Flush RQ's model firmly down the jacks

She's done that & gone with the NCCA model.

I think the unions should have called for a stop to extra curricular immediately..all extra curricular. Then people will see what teachers do that they don't get paid for

Why? Would it not be better for the public to realise all the extras that teachers provide than see us standing outside the gates

Teacher22 wrote: »

Why?

1. It impacts the students and their holistic development.

2. It's extra curricular and outside contracts and terms of employment, ergo, union directives shouldn't hold any sway