New DIT Campus - Grangegorman

nowecant · 20-03-2017 3:40pm

"Dublin planners raise concerns over DIT student digs"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/dublin-planners-raise-concerns-over-dit-student-digs-1.3016646

Their main concern seems to be that there will be too many student beds near the largest education institution in the state...

It beggars belief!

cgcsb · 20-03-2017 8:37pm

The article is quite alarming for several reasons. The first being that a height of 6 stories is considered too high for Central Dublin. The second being that when it was decided to centralise DIT into a single campus, it'll logically follow that students, and thus the student housing market, will seek to locate close to the campus. So the housing issue should have been more/less decided well over a decade ago.

This article reveals a stark lack of knowledge in DCC of the most basic tenants of urban living. It's quite shocking really and it doesn't seem like the journalists even want to highlight how breathtakingly mindless and directionless nonsense is issued by those in charge.

Also of course student housing should be facilitated, after all living walking distance to work/college is a pretty effective tool in relieving pressure on transport services. The real problem is student areas have lower property prices and that won't do, not that the astronomical house prices of D7 are likely to come down this century.

Bray Head · 21-03-2017 10:31am

What is really depressing is that DCC does not understand the basics of housing whereby people moving into one type of housing are generally vacating another type, which creates space for other people.

Ireland has an unusually large number of people sharing dwellings who are not related and not in a relationship: aka, house-sharing. Most people who house-share would not do it if single-occupancy dwellings in Dublin were more affordable.

Building student housing frees up space in houses which are better suited to families, for families.

Is this really so difficult for planners to understand?

spacetweek · 27-03-2017 8:42pm

Sounds like they're bowing to NIMBYs alright, but with 1000 beds in these two disputed schemes and 8000 in total planned for the north inner city that would still leave 7000.

FreudianSlippers · 28-03-2017 9:58am

"scale and height" should be tattooed on the Dublin planners' knuckles at this stage. SMH.

nowecant · 28-03-2017 12:09pm

"It simply won’t be affordable': New student rooms in Dublin will cost a minimum of €249 a week"

http://www.thejournal.ie/student-accommodation-dublin-3300263-Mar2017/

At those costs, paying for even one childs accommodation would be like having a second mortgagee for many families. A few more large scale developments would help reduce these prices.

Boaty · 28-03-2017 10:46pm

Typical Irish planning, The student accommodation at DIT hasn't even started yet, they are depending on private accommodation who can charge what they like.
CEO of Grangegorman Development Agency should be sacked.

Eoghanaldo · 08-05-2017 10:59am

Have been working in Park House for the last number of years and word ripping around the place here in Park House is that the building has been sold to Grangegorman/DIT. There's been a chronic lack of upkeep and maintenence over the last number of months and were expecting the building to be sold at any time, so wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if an announcement was to be made soon enough. Supposedly, they will take possession in about 5wks or so.

nowecant · 08-05-2017 11:16am

nowecant wrote: »

Also I wonder what the changes are that DIT might bid on Park House on the North Circular Road. It looks like it could be very useful to the college.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/commercial-property/park-house-on-ncr-to-headline-latest-allsop-space-auction-1.1769999

Ive always thought it would be a great investment. Building and the overall site is large enough to possibly accommodate the smallest of its 4 college, a huge library, large scale student accommodation etc. It would also be great for that end of the NCR

MJohnston · 08-05-2017 11:49am

Horrible building, it'd be lovely to see it demolished and redeveloped!

nowecant · 08-05-2017 11:57am

I don't know, I've always had a soft spot for it.

Of course it needs major work on the facade and doubtless the interior probably needs at least the same level of work. I would also remove a lot of the car parking and add some landscaping.

It could be really nice

I reckon it would really work well as a research/business incubator space.

Hopefully they buy it

wordofwarning · 11-05-2017 6:15pm

Boaty wrote: »

Typical Irish planning, The student accommodation at DIT hasn't even started yet, they are depending on private accommodation who can charge what they like.
CEO of Grangegorman Development Agency should be sacked.

Private accomodation can't charge what they want. The market sets the price. An oil producer in the Iran can demand $200 a barrel, but no one will buy it. Likewise the price of accommodation is set by demand.

I don't see why you seem to think DIT will charge less than a private market operator. Irish Universities providing their own accommodation are not altruistic as you seem to think. UCD charge anything from €6,000 to €10.5k for a year for the academic year. It hardly seems like a steal does it?

nowecant · 18-02-2018 3:59pm

Just to update this thread.

Park House
So DIT did end up buying Park House in the end for 9 million despite repeatedly denying that they would do so
https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/dit-denies-purchase-of-9m-dublins-north-circular-road-office-35493661.html

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/dit-adds-9m-park-house-to-grangegorman-campus-36197332.html

No idea how this has/will affect the plans for the campus, its quite a substantial building and space and could possibly be renovated to take an entire college e.g. College of Arts & Tourism, Business, Engineering & Built Environment or Sciences & Health

Alternatively, it could be used to move some of the HSE elements off of the main campus or perhaps even for accommodation, though I am not sure its suitable for that

Accomodation
In other news, they will be charging €215 a week to live on its new Grangegorman campus!
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/rising-construction-costs-force-dit-to-raise-student-accommodation-prices-828626.html

There is also circa 5954 Private Student accommodation units being built in the surrounding area. This list is taken/updated from
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1855983&page=14

Scheme.................................Bedspaces........Status
Digihub..................................493...................Complete
Dorset Street........................463..................Complete
Gardiner Street......................520..................Complete
Wexford Street........................48....................Complete
Newmarket.............................406..................Under construction
Mill Street/Blackpitts................303..................Under construction
Church Street.......................232..................Under construction
Summerhill............................407..................Under construction
Point Village............................970..................Under construction
Trinity Oisin House...................278..................Under construction
Thomas Street........................263..................Revised planning application submitted
Prussia Street.......................218..................Rejection appealed to ABP
Aungier Street........................300..................Permission granted - no movement?
Lwr Rathmines Road................135..................Permission granted - no movement?
Brickfield Lane .......................308..................Permission granted - no movement
Grangegorman Lower...........126..................Permission granted - no movement
Dominick Street....................247..................Permission granted - no movement?
Montpelier Hill.......................329..................In planning
Park Shopping Centre............541..................In planning
1 and 2 Manor street...............96…..................In planning
Hanover Quay .......................200...................In planning
Cork Street............................182...................Permission granted - no movement?
Gardiner Street II................117...................In planning
North Circular Road…...............444...................In planning
Mill Street/Blackpitts...............296..................In planning (second phase)
Newmarket Square.................349..................In planning
The Big Tree........................161...................In planning
Garden Lane..........................232...................In planning
Dominick Street II..............77.....................In planning
Lidl Ballymun.......................364...................In planning
Stillorgan Village....................598...................PP application coming
Carmanhall Road....................700...................PP application coming
DCU Campus.........................560...................Early stages
DIT Grangegorman..............700...................Early stages
North Brunswick Street........571?.................In planning
Phibsboro Shopping Center...341...................In planning?
North Circular Road..............444...................Received Planning

This is not 100% accurate and many of them are likely further along in the process then they were when this was first made. But there is certainly lots of options being developed in the area, though they will all likely be quite expensive.

The biggest issue now is the some residents and DCC claiming that there will be an over concentration of student accommodation in the area. This beggers belief, as the accommodation is distributed fairly equally in all the surrounding areas, Phibsboro, Stoneybatter, Prussia Street, Smithfield, NCR, Dominic Street

Transport
15 new Dublin Bike stations opening up in the area which will be very beneficial

Both the Broadstone and the Grangegorman Luas stops are open now. The Luas line also connects the campus to the new DIT sporting facilities in Broombridge which is or will be a huge help once the campus comes on stream http://www.dit.ie/sport/facilities/broombridge/

Educate Together School
Amended planning permissions has gone through to increase this from 16 to 24 classrooms. Its still a fairly small site howver
http://ggda.ie/an-bord-pleanala-approves-amendment-to-planning-scheme

Primary Care Centre
This is up and running and apparently scaling up services
http://ggda.ie/grangegorman-primary-care-centre-contacts

East and Central Quads
These were meant to be complete by September 2017
http://www.dit.ie/ditfoundation/fundingpriorities/newditcampusgrangegorman/phase1-to2017/ditgrangegormancentralquad/

Of course legal action delayed the start of the East and Central Quads, but I have not seen any major progress on site or announcements from the GGDA about them since the legal action has been sorted
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/legal-action-delays-new-grangegorman-campus-until-2019-35598629.html

I have no idea what is going on here. Considering the contract was awarded in February 2015, the legal proceedings of the chalange were concluded at the end of 2016, the decision made in in April 2017... its a wonder they were not rushing to get work underway.

There was one small piece in saying that construction would start in 2018, but I dont think there has been any real progress on this so far. The longer this goes on the more likely we will see another year added to the timeline

http://www.dublinpeople.com/news/northsidewest/articles/2018/01/03/4150158-locals-to-benefit-from-dit-project/

General Progress
This has been very slow and they have not released a lot of information as to why. I had expected updated project timelines and further progress on elements such as Broadstone Gate, The Library, Student Accommodation, and even the HSE elements

Outlook
It will keep progressing but at a terribly slow pace

Even their winter news letter does not inspire confidence

"I have no doubt that 2018 is going to be a busy year in Grangegorman. I am confident that the Central and East Quad will be onsite, the primary school may also be onsite and other projects including the development of the HSE Residential Care Neighbourhood, will advance through theirvarious stages"

wakka12 · 18-02-2018 4:07pm

Well I know the library is still in design stage, my friends working in the firm designing it..So dunno if thats even been granted planning permission yet

nowecant · 18-02-2018 5:33pm

AFAIK they have not even applied for planning yet

O Donnell Tuomey were announced as the designers nearly 2 years ago.
http://ggda.ie/o-donnell-tuomey-to-design-new-academic-hub

If anyone wants to see the plans for the central and eastern quads they are linked to from here
http://ggda.ie/new-planning-applications-lodged-2

Zipppy · 14-03-2018 7:20pm

What's goona go in beside Broadstone luas stop...lots of land there ?

nowecant · 14-03-2018 7:33pm

If you are talking about the site immediately past the stop on the way to broombridge then its a 444 Bed student accommodation AFAIK

I think Ziggurat are developing the site

nowecant · 22-03-2018 8:38pm

The Librity.ie is reporting that the East and West Quads will not be available until early to mid 2019 now which means the first students will not be there until September 2020

"New academic buildings set to be built in DIT Grangegorman won’t be available until “early to mid 2020,” according to the Department of Education."

There are no updates from the GGDA at all on progress, they got this directly from the Department of Education

There is also no* recent updates on any other part of the project

*left this word out in my first version

ignorance is strength · 22-03-2018 10:08pm

nowecant wrote: »

The Librity.ie is reporting that the East and West Quads will not be available until early to mid 2019 now which means the first students will not be there until September 2020

"New academic buildings set to be built in DIT Grangegorman won’t be available until “early to mid 2020,” according to the Department of Education."

There are no updates from the GGDA at all on progress, they got this directly from the Department of Education

There is also recent updates on any other part of the project

Remember when there were regular enthusiastic updates on the Facebook page?

Assuming everything is above board, it must be incredibly disheartening for the passionate and visionary people involved to be paralysed for two years by an appeal from a developer they decided not to employ. For that reason, I almost hope there is some weight to the objection, because otherwise something is seriously wrong.

nowecant · 22-03-2018 10:23pm

Oh I understand the legal delays were not the GGDA fault.

But why have many of the other parts of the scheme not advanced? Or if they have, why do they not highlight them?

Ok the new HSE Primary Care facility and the Educate Together school are open/progressing but they are not strictly part of 'DIT Grangegorman'

I would like to see the status of:

-Broadstone Gate
-Any of the student Student Accommodation (2000 beds?)
-West Quad
-Library
-Engineering Quad
-Built Environment Quad
-Park House (whatever they plan to do with it)

None of these need be delayed by the issues they had with the Central and Eastern Quads and the legal troubles

Instead its just a constant feed of art workshops and exhibitions

Carawaystick · 22-03-2018 11:04pm

I was told last week that the built environment faculty would be there in Sept '20 by the head of the faculty.

ignorance is strength · 22-03-2018 11:12pm

nowecant wrote: »

Oh I understand the legal delays were not the GGDA fault.

But why have many of the other parts of the scheme not advanced? Or if they have, why do they not highlight them?

Ok the new HSE Primary Care facility and the Educate Together school are open/progressing but they are not strictly part of 'DIT Grangegorman'

I would like to see the status of:

-Broadstone Gate
-Any of the student Student Accommodation (2000 beds?)
-West Quad
-Library
-Engineering Quad
-Built Environment Quad
-Park House (whatever they plan to do with it)

None of these need be delayed by the issues they had with the Central and Eastern Quads and the legal troubles

Instead its just a constant feed of art workshops and exhibitions

Tbh, I wasn't actually replying to you so much as expressing something on the same topic that I'd been thinking for a while: that these sorts of administrative delays zap the enthusiasm of creative types. And, yeah, I agree that the GGDA's lack of communication is disappointing.

I don't know the answer for the delay in building the projects you mention, but I can imagine that it might be in some way linked to the uncertainty caused by the court case.

I suppose, on a positive note, at least the grounds of the campus have been largely finished; it would be utterly depressing if diggers were left parked among fenced-off mud hills.

Carawaystick wrote: »

I was told last week that the built environment faculty would be there in Sept '20 by the head of the faculty.

Well, according to the article nowecant links, building should be completed by mid-2020. But that seems highly optimistic to me.

nowecant · 22-03-2018 11:18pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

I was told last week that the built environment faculty would be there in Sept '20 by the head of the faculty.

I wish that were true, but I really don't see how it can be. The Central and Eastern quads have went through the following 6 stages and that took 4+ years:

1. Have their designs completed (2014/5??)
2. Submit and get planning (2014/5??)
3. Went to tender (2015/6??)
4. Selected a tender winner (2016/7??)
5. Tender looser sued (2016/7??)
6. Some current inexplicable delay to signing contracts? (2017/8??)

They have yet to:

7. Start construction (2018?)
8. Complete construction / fitout (early / mid 2020?
9. Move from current facilities (2020)

AFAIK the Built Environment Quad has not completed stage 1 of that process yet? How do they think they are going to have the move completed by 2020?

My older brother started in DIT in 1994? He was told then that he would finish his degree in Grangegorman

FreudianSlippers · 23-03-2018 1:57am

Wow... that seems like it must have been a funds issue right?

ignorance is strength · 23-03-2018 2:18am

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Wow... that seems like it must have been a funds issue right?

I’d be surprised if that’s the reason, if only because they’ve built so little so far.

The 2016 annual report, which was posted on the website earlier this week, says “it is expected that the Central and East Quads construction will begin in autumn 2018.” Based on that, they’re on schedule.

MJohnston · 28-03-2018 2:22pm

Update today from their blog:

http://ggda.ie/major-building-work-to-begin-on-two-new-dit-quads-in-grangegorman

Major Building Work to Begin on Two New DIT Quads in Grangegorman

Large-scale construction is about to start again in Grangegorman with today’s announcement by [a load of names] that the PPP agreement has been signed for the building work on the new Central and East Quads.

The Quads are being constructed by the Eriugena Consortium, which includes Irish construction company John Sisk & Son (Holdings) Ltd. and Spanish construction company FCC Construction (Ireland) Ltd.

[snipped out a lot of politician's waffling]

The Central Quad will accommodate academic activities and facilities required for a total of ten schools from the College of Sciences & Health, College of Engineering & Built Environment and the College of Arts & Tourism.

The East Quad will accommodate the majority of academic activities and facilities required for the College of Arts & Tourism which currently consists of six schools, four of which will be accommodated within the East Quad building.

Both of these new buildings are set for completion and occupation in September 2020. They will add to the changing landscape of the new Grangegorman quarter, which already includes the Phoenix Care Centre, the Grangegorman Primary Care Centre (opened this year), the Greenway Hub, the new playing pitches, playground and walking/jogging track.

With work now beginning on the Central and East Quads the GDA will aim to keep the project progressing with the design of the new Academic Hub and the HSE Residential Care Neighbourhood, and the submission of the planning application for the new Dublin 7 Educate Together School on the site.

MJohnston · 28-03-2018 2:26pm

Oh, and someone asked when it would start in a Facebook page comment, this was the response:

Grangegorman Development Agency wrote:

Hi Gerry. The contractor is currently carrying out some enabling works onsite but will start in earnest probably next week.

ignorance is strength · 07-04-2018 8:40pm

Double spread in the Weekend Review supplement of the Irish Times about the project. Haven't read it yet. Doubt there's any new information (seems to be pitched at people who weren't aware of the development) and the artist's impression looks like it's based on previous plans.

nowecant · 08-04-2018 10:51am

The same article (I assume)

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/dit-s-new-campus-this-is-all-about-connections-and-making-it-work-1.3444344

Bit short on details to be honest. They don't even mention the names of the central or east quads the development work is starting on, or refer to any other part of the development or timelines

ignorance is strength · 08-04-2018 2:24pm

There was a second: Welcome to Dublin's New Urban Quarter | Irish Times.

This is the picture. I think I might be wrong about it being an older version.

New DIT Campus - Grangegorman

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