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Web Application Frameworks

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  • 30-06-2009 4:31pm
    #1
    bringitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭


    Not sure if this or programming is the right place.

    Am an old hand at software development but most of my experience is in C/C++. I dipped my toe into JSP / J2EE development so concepts are not alien, however I am lacking when it comes to the latest and greatest technologies.

    A mate of mine asked me to knock up a simple intranet / web application for their potential new business. We have settled on Linux, Apache, MySQL + ???

    The initial application will simply replace an MS Access database (with no forms!!).

    There are so many frameworks out there now, am wondering which one would hit the following:
    1: Easy to pick up
    2: Free / Open Source
    3: Suit the task at hand

    I know this is probably opening a can of worms!


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    #2
    W!zard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭W!zard


    Joomla! or Drupal

    These 2 are the main open source frameworks, should help alot. If you are looking for something better, pm me! :)


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    #3
    itscout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭itscout


    If you don't dislike a Java based solution you could try using
    Struts 2 as the web framework
    Glassfish or Tomcat or JBoss as the servlet engine.

    The learning curve can be steep in the beginning, but if you get past it you'll
    have a lot of flexibility.

    For a simple appilcation you could use the servlet engine as the only web server (and eliminate Apache altogether).
    Another popular combination is an Apache frontend (to serve static files) and a servlet engine behind.

    For development and bundling everything together one of the popular choices is
    Eclipse (IDE)
    Maven (nicely solves app dependencies)

    Some links you may find useful:
    Struts 2 + MySQL: http://www.roseindia.net/struts/struts2/struts-2-mysql.shtml
    Eclipse + Maven + Struts 2: http://agafix.org/struts2-hello-world-example-eclipse-maven2/
    Apache frontend + Glassfish backend: http://www.albeesonline.com/blog/2008/10/14/integrating-glassfish-application-server-with-apache-web-server/ or http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4496/gfaad?a=view

    Good luck.
    --
    IT Scout - www.jobscout.ie


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    #4
    brendanuk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭brendanuk


    try railo and mango for cms. easy peasy :)

    http://www.getrailo.org/
    http://www.getmura.com/


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    #5
    bringitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭bringitdown


    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    On the subject of Drupal / Joomla / CMS in general ... would they be suitable for a data driven 'web application' as opposed to serving 'content'

    .. I know, I know data is content but from the PoV of a the existing Access DB are CMS suited to these types of form driven, data entry/query applications?


  • Options
    #6
    grahamor
    Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭grahamor


    W!zard wrote: »
    Joomla! or Drupal

    These 2 are the main open source frameworks, should help alot. If you are looking for something better, pm me! :)

    Are these CMS's and not frameworks ?

    Check out Django aswell. It's a Python framework that comes with lots of cool stuff built in, like an automatic admin area.


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  • Options
    #7
    chakotha
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭chakotha


    I haven't yet tried one. If your using PHP CakePHP looks interesting.


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    #8
    protos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭protos


    Joomla / drupal etc are CMS's - not development frameworks.

    cakePHP is a php dev framework I've used that I've been impressed with.
    - especially for sites with lots of forms.


  • Options
    #9
    W!zard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭W!zard


    protos wrote: »
    Joomla / drupal etc are CMS's - not development frameworks.

    cakePHP is a php dev framework I've used that I've been impressed with.
    - especially for sites with lots of forms.

    Your right on that, just giving an extended answer, was not sure the level of detail there, my bad! :o


  • Options
    #10
    dragonkin
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭dragonkin


    Ruby on rails seems to be the latest and greatest thing everyone is using. Twitter uses it.


  • Options
    #11
    ve
    Closed Accounts Posts: 448 ✭✭ve


    grahamor wrote: »
    Are these CMS's and not frameworks ?
    That was exactly my thoughts also. I think when people hear the term "web application" they very quickly blurt out Joomla, Mambo, Drupal, etc like a knee jerk reaction. It really bothers me how many times I've seen people come on here with a few high level web application requirements and others automatically suggest Joomla. Joomla is a CMS, a type of web application that solves a type of problem. It is not appropriate in all situations.

    I cannot think of an open source desktop application that would be suggested as often when people come on looking for something to meet the specific needs of their business. So why just because it's the web do people automatically assume that Joomla can save the day?

    I've used Joomla before in very specific situations, beyond that I thought it was absolute ****e. It's an application that allows typically non-developers deliver CMS enabled websites to clients often in a very hacky way. Now don't get me wrong I've seen many excellent uses of Joomla where the designer/developer knew exactly what they were doing, but the vast majority are not that way. Again all fall under the CMS category, which is only a type of web application. I've seen so many people who rely on Joomla have their clients turn around and ask them for features that fall well outside the bounds of CMS and they freak out because the system they delivered is a CMS that they did not write, only customize at some level.

    My advise to people getting involved in projects that deliver web applications is to gain more experience in software development and specifically web based application development. I think this automatic tendency towards open source web applications such as Joomla is impeding the growth of individual skill sets.

    The OP is an experienced software developer, and I think the likes of J2EE/Struts or PHP/[CodeIgniter/CakePHP/take your pick there are a lot of frameworks] is the way to go. I think the specific technology you employ will be based on a more comprehensive requirements spec. I'm guessing that the user base will be fairly small on the Intranet, so a LAM[P] deployment may be the cheapest option to develop.


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    #12
    bringitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭bringitdown


    Thanks again, think my suspicions were right on Drupal / Joomla!

    I like CakePHP from the look of the documentation / API listing it seems right up my street.

    Shying away from Java at the moment purely for selfish learning reasons (I don't find Java too challenging and limited scope in the project to really look at the J2EE/etc framework and prove myself wrong!)


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    #13
    squibs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 975 ✭✭✭squibs


    CakePHP is good, also look at Zend Framework from the makers of PHP, and codeigniter which I'm investigating at the moment. It doesn't need a bootstrapper, but it still works on an MVC model.

    Ruby on Rails is nice, if you're not married to PHP, although it no longer powers Twitter as suggested by an earlier poster - Twitter now runs on Scala

    http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/23282/


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    #14
    dragonkin
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭dragonkin


    According to that article the user interface is still based on ruby on rails but the backend processing now uses Scala as ruby on rails was not able to handle the enormous amount of traffic.
    Right now Twitter's service is a hybrid of programming languages, Payne says. The user interface runs on Ruby on Rails, which is "fine for people clicking around Web pages," he says. But by the end of the year, Twitter hopes to have a set of services in the back end that are written entirely in Scala. And it's the company's plan to make sure that all the third-party services that connect to Twitter via the application programming interface (API) go through Scala code, bypassing Ruby on Rails completely. "When you're talking about a bunch of programs hitting the API rapidly," Payne says, "We found we can better optimize things...using Scala."


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