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Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert **See Mod Warning Post #1**

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    #572
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    Await events. Ultimately its the members who will hold firm or cave in. But this time there is no Trokia. Though Never underestimate the spinelessness of your fellow teacher or gross indifference.


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    #573
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    Await events. Ultimately its the members who will hold firm or cave in. But this time there is no Trokia. Though Never underestimate the spinelessness of your fellow teacher or gross indifference.

    I was assuming that they were going to the executive / standing committees with some sort of a proposal. Am I right?


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    #574
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    That what I was wondering too mnp.


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    #575
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    That would be normal procedure . If a proposal comes it will probably reach the proletariat for a vote after mid term earliest. So much remains unknown ie posts Resource s etc


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    #576
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    That would be normal procedure . If a proposal comes it will probably reach the proletariat for a vote after mid term earliest. So much remains unknown ie posts Resource s etc

    So there's nothing yet then?


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    #577
    acequion
    Registered Users Posts: 3,827 ✭✭✭acequion


    At our branch meeting during the week the news was that there is no budging from the unions on teacher assessment which is very good news. However it seems that the minister can't "lose face" so we may have to do something like tick a few boxes or some such which wouldn't be the end of the world.

    It's still all to play for and I've the fingers tightly crossed.


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    #578
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    Here's hoping acequion.


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    #579
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    acequion wrote: »
    At our branch meeting during the week the news was that there is no budging from the unions on teacher assessment which is very good news. However it seems that the minister can't "lose face" so we may have to do something like tick a few boxes or some such which wouldn't be the end of the world.

    It's still all to play for and I've the fingers tightly crossed.

    It depends on what those tick boxes are.


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    #580
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    the silence over the weekend is very very worrying
    a deal is being done no doubt about it.......Pat King will be on his way soon probably to a State board........whose interests will take priority in any new deal?
    I'm very very very worried


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    #581
    endakenny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭endakenny


    km79 wrote: »
    the silence over the weekend is very very worrying
    a deal is being done no doubt about it.......Pat King will be on his way soon probably to a State board........whose interests will take priority in any new deal?
    I'm very very very worried
    How would he sell the breaking of the ASTI principle of teachers not assessing their pupils to union members? Besides, whether or not there is another ballot on the JCSA isn't solely up to him.


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    #582
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    still no news ?
    very unusual
    tweaking the details of the new "deal" we will most likely be balloted on meaning the new science course will most likely be started by the time it's sorted.
    the new science course we were not allowed have any input into due to a union directive.
    I'll be RAGING if this pans out as I have said .


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    #583
    vamos!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭vamos!


    Waiting until midterm to make the announcement? Further details to be hammered out and announced before Easter break and final plan last day in May perhaps? I hope I'm wrong.


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    #584
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/junior-cycle-talks-adjourned-without-agreement//back_to/asti-home/

    someone is trying to save face......who is it though ? Jan? Unions? or more than likely both........
    how "independent" is the chairperson ? who pays him?


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    #585
    endakenny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭endakenny


    km79 wrote: »
    http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/junior-cycle-talks-adjourned-without-agreement//back_to/asti-home/

    someone is trying to save face......who is it though ? Jan? Unions? or more than likely both........
    how "independent" is the chairperson ? who pays him?

    So what if Dr Travers is paid by the Department of Education? It doesn't mean that he isn't independent. After all, the Director of Public Prosecutions is independent even though her salary is paid by the Department of Justice.


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    #586
    sitstill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    Those of us who are Department paid have had the strike day stopped from today's wages :-(


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    #587
    wtd2008
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭wtd2008


    What is the story with the increments due in December? Any update?


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    #588
    sitstill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    wtd2008 wrote: »
    What is the story with the increments due in December? Any update?

    According to the ASTI website, we are getting them in our next pay on the 19th:

    http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/salary-increments-delay-update//back_to/asti-home/


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    #589
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    I hope increment pay is backdated

    No reason it shouldn't be


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    #590
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    its beyond farcical that the union has let them away with breaking HRA with a feeble excuse about being unable to update computer software for increments when they can deduct strike pay in the very next pay packet.
    I dread what news tomorrows standing committee meeting will bring. .


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    #591
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Chancer3001 wrote: »
    I hope increment pay is backdated

    No reason it shouldn't be

    "computer says no " ...........


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    #592
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    If they break Haddington road again asti has said it will stop croke park hours


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    #593
    km79
    Registered Users Posts: 48,132 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Chancer3001 wrote: »
    If they break Haddington road again asti has said it will stop croke park hours

    They said members will be balloted on stopping croke park hours
    Big difference and won't happen anyway


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    #594
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭solerina


    Chancer3001 wrote: »
    If they break Haddington road again asti has said it will stop croke park hours


    Oh please God that we do....they are the worst, most useless hours ever....sitting around trying to pretend you are actually doing something other than trying to stay awake after a long day !!!


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    #595
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    solerina wrote: »
    Oh please God that we do....they are the worst, most useless hours ever....sitting around trying to pretend you are actually doing something other than trying to stay awake after a long day !!!

    Those hours are the most ridiculous idea ever. Apart from the fact that the end of a long day is the worst time of the day to have meetings, it means that an hour which could be used for helping students or doing CPD is wasted.


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    #596
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    Assuming that we all agree that there is a need for meetings, PTM, whole staff and subject dept and that tuition time is the most valuable time we have for our students what formula would posters suggest should be used to determine when/ how often meetings are held and how many should be held in the year?

    I'm working on the assumption that whatever successor agreement to HRA comes will try to safeguard tuition time for students and that there is no realistic hope of all of the hours disappearing.


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    #597
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    man_no_plan wrote: »
    Assuming that we all agree that there is a need for meetings, PTM, whole staff and subject dept and that tuition time is the most valuable time we have for our students what formula would posters suggest should be used to determine when/ how often meetings are held and how many should be held in the year?

    I'm working on the assumption that whatever successor agreement to HRA comes will try to safeguard tuition time for students and that there is no realistic hope of all of the hours disappearing.
    A start would be to allow meetings at times when it suits the staff, not necessarily at the end of a long day unless there is no alternative. If they are not whole school meetings, and the people involved are free at other times; if they all have a free class at the same time, or want to meet at lunchtime, that should be allowed. And the time should be more flexibly used for CPD, assisting students, helping with extra-curricular activities or whatever, not for makey uppey meetings which are just held for the sake of it.


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    #598
    endakenny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭endakenny


    I do not believe that expressing discontent about the extra workload that the JCSA, in the form that the Department intends it to be, would entail would turn public opinion against the current industrial action, given the anti-government sentiment that exists among many people, e.g. the state of the health service.

    As for the rigidity of the CP hours, Chilli explained it in post 48 of the following thread.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057369762&page=4
    As far as I am aware, a major issue here was that the JMB pushed for the current format. They did not want nor considered that their members had time to be running around, compiling and tallying individual CPA hours for teaching staff. Consequently, the format of everyone in one room was arrived at.

    Sure, it is a pain for teachers and is a waste of time in many cases (most 2 hour meetings with 40 people in a room are). But from the Principals' point of view, their job has become so difficult, so time-consuming and in some cases almost untenable, that this was another task they weren't willing to do. The government (DOE&S) are not going to go against the school managers. Sure then there would be all-out war.

    In the negotiations for the successor to HRA, the ASTI should put pressure on its members who are principals and deputy principals to go easy on the staff, i.e. not insisting on teachers being in the same room for the extra hours. After all, principals and deputy principals constitute a minority of the membership of each of the teachers' unions.

    I also believe that the fall-out of the ASTI industrial action that took place at the beginning of this century is the reason for the ASTI leadership's unwillingness to continue the campaign against HRA just like the Iraq war is the reason for the House of Commons' refusal to authorise RAF air strikes in Syria.


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    #599
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    endakenny wrote: »
    In the negotiations for the successor to HRA, the ASTI should put pressure on its members who are principals and deputy principals to go easy on the staff, i.e. not insisting on teachers being in the same room for the extra hours. After all, principals and deputy principals constitute a minority of the membership of each of the teachers' unions.
    You think it's that simple? How would they "put pressure" on them?

    Principals and vice-principals may be union members, but first and foremost they are management.


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    #600
    endakenny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭endakenny


    katydid wrote: »
    You think it's that simple? How would they "put pressure" on them?

    Principals and vice-principals may be union members, but first and foremost they are management.

    The principals and vice-principals constitute a minority of the union membership. The union leadership, representing the majority, could put pressure on them by threatening to make their lives difficult if they don't respect the will of the staff. After all, the ordinary teacher and the principal are on first name terms with each other, at least when they are not in earshot of pupils, and thus the relationship between superior and subordinate is less formal in teaching than in the police or the military, in which subordinates have to call superiors "Sarge" or "Sir".


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    #601
    seavill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    endakenny wrote: »
    The principals and vice-principals constitute a minority of the union membership. The union leadership, representing the majority, could put pressure on them by threatening to make their lives difficult if they don't respect the will of the staff. After all, the ordinary teacher and the principal are on first name terms with each other, at least when they are not in earshot of pupils, and thus the relationship between superior and subordinate is less formal in teaching than in the police or the military, in which subordinates have to call superiors "Sarge" or "Sir".

    How can the union leadership put pressure on managment as a matter of interest?
    Principals & DPs have a job to do, which includes doing what they are told by their bosses (the Government/Department) which includes running CP hours in a way that they were told to do.
    I don't see how bullying P & DPs into doing what you want them to do helps in any way.
    Yes some are more lenient than others but they still have to follow orders that is their job. We are signed up to CP/HRA which means we have to follow the rules (even if they Department don't) we can't sign up to an agreement and then pick and choose what we want to do and what we don't.
    Really don't see where youa re going with this one apart from trying to say something to win over a few votes


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