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Empty Apartment Blocks

  • 03-04-2014 10:56am
    #1
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    Recently I've noticed 2 large unoccupied apartment blocks, both of which seem to be completely finished.

    This is a bit odd in the context of rising rents and an apparent rental accommodation shortage. It got me thinking wondering if a crowdsourcing effort on boards might be able to find other empty blocks around Ireland.

    The cynic in me suspects that NAMA might be holding back supply to keep prices high. But without any data, that's only a guess.

    In the same vein as the boards.ie eircom fibre mapping project, maybe we could join forces and highlight empty blocks?

    I don't know how to set up the fusion table/map in the same way as Sponge Bob did, so will need some help with that. I have set up the basic fusion table, but the editing option I was hoping to set is 'allow anyone signed in to a google account to edit', and that doesn't seem to be possible.

    I'm also not sure how to allow people to set the location by clicking on the map - currently you have to paste in the Lat/Long into the fusion table.

    Anyone like to help, either with organising the data collection, or filling in apartment blocks near you?

    This is the link so far - <SNIP>  - obviously it's not much use until I figure out the setting to allow other people to edit it!


Comments

  • #2
    pacman1989
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭pacman1989


    I would highly doubt NAMA are holding these back to keep rents high. Its in their best interest to claw back as much negative equity as they can.
    Perhaps the block might look finished from the outside but inside might not be habitable and need more money pumped into it which i would assume nama would not opt for.


  • #3
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    That may be true, but I'd rather keep this thread focussed on how we might collect information about empty blocks, or where the empty blocks might be. Are there any near you?


  • #4
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,238 ✭✭✭markpb


    Perhaps some of the blocks are owned by developers who borrowed their money from a bank not covered by NAMA?

    There's one near me, Wyckham Point (I think) in Dundrum. I keep hearing rumours about how it'll be finished and on sale soon but it hasn't happened yet.


  • #5
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    Would you be able to post the co-ords and I'll add it to the map?

    Any idea how many units?


  • #6
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    markpb wrote: »
    Perhaps some of the blocks are owned by developers who borrowed their money from a bank not covered by NAMA?

    There's one near me, Wyckham Point (I think) in Dundrum. I keep hearing rumours about how it'll be finished and on sale soon but it hasn't happened yet.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/commercial-property/property-investment-firm-hibernia-reit-in-67m-deal-1.1694748

    The link gives the update

    Wyckham Point was never in Nama. but I think one of the developers did go into receivership last year. In any case the block of 213 apartments has been bought by the Hibernia REIT fund. I believe that to maximise the tax benefit for the investors that they will rent out the entire building for a number of years. There is a lot of work to be done yet to bring them to a habitable state but if started soon they should be ready within a year. They will probably hand over the lot to an estate agent to manage


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  • #7
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    edanto wrote: »
    Recently I've noticed 2 large unoccupied apartment blocks, both of which seem to be completely finished.

    This is a bit odd in the context of rising rents and an apparent rental accommodation shortage. It got me thinking wondering if a crowdsourcing effort on boards might be able to find other empty blocks around Ireland.

    The cynic in me suspects that NAMA might be holding back supply to keep prices high. But without any data, that's only a guess.

    In the same vein as the boards.ie eircom fibre mapping project, maybe we could join forces and highlight empty blocks?

    I don't know how to set up the fusion table/map in the same way as Sponge Bob did, so will need some help with that. I have set up the basic fusion table, but the editing option I was hoping to set is 'allow anyone signed in to a google account to edit', and that doesn't seem to be possible.

    I'm also not sure how to allow people to set the location by clicking on the map - currently you have to paste in the Lat/Long into the fusion table.

    Anyone like to help, either with organising the data collection, or filling in apartment blocks near you?

    This is the link so far - https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?docid=1e-V9LHTjTtToE8wbYUE0G1fzA6zlWBJXozEWcJrk - obviously it's not much use until I figure out the setting to allow other people to edit it!

    Brilliant idea.
    There is no lack of supply in the capital. There are thousands of viable residential dwellings. Let's prove it.


  • #8
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    Zamboni wrote: »
    Brilliant idea.
    There is no lack of supply in the capital. There are thousands of viable residential dwellings. Let's prove it.

    To who? the data is readily available. NAMA have been instructed to complete and release 4,500 of them.


  • #9
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    MouseTail wrote: »
    To who? the data is readily available. NAMA have been instructed to complete and release 4,500 of them.

    Could you point towards any data?

    Initially I'd like to map apartments that are complete, ready to be occupied, but are just left empty. Do you know of any?


  • #10
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    edanto wrote: »
    Recently I've noticed 2 large unoccupied apartment blocks, both of which seem to be completely finished.

    This is a bit odd in the context of rising rents and an apparent rental accommodation shortage. It got me thinking wondering if a crowdsourcing effort on boards might be able to find other empty blocks around Ireland.

    The cynic in me suspects that NAMA might be holding back supply to keep prices high. But without any data, that's only a guess.

    In the same vein as the boards.ie eircom fibre mapping project, maybe we could join forces and highlight empty blocks?

    I don't know how to set up the fusion table/map in the same way as Sponge Bob did, so will need some help with that. I have set up the basic fusion table, but the editing option I was hoping to set is 'allow anyone signed in to a google account to edit', and that doesn't seem to be possible.

    I'm also not sure how to allow people to set the location by clicking on the map - currently you have to paste in the Lat/Long into the fusion table.

    Anyone like to help, either with organising the data collection, or filling in apartment blocks near you?

    This is the link so far - https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?docid=1e-V9LHTjTtToE8wbYUE0G1fzA6zlWBJXozEWcJrk - obviously it's not much use until I figure out the setting to allow other people to edit it!

    The fusion map itself isnt editable, the other map is and Sponge Bob constantly synced the two up. You can set up a publicly editable map in regular maps, and set that as the data source when importing into the fusion table. If you're any way handy with javascript you could set it to automatically update periodically.


  • #11
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    edanto wrote: »
    Recently I've noticed 2 large unoccupied apartment blocks, both of which seem to be completely finished.

    This is a bit odd in the context of rising rents and an apparent rental accommodation shortage. It got me thinking wondering if a crowdsourcinig effort on boards might be able to find other empty blocks around Ireland.

    The cynic in me suspects that NAMA might be holding back supply to keep prices high. But without any data, that's only a guess.

    In the same vein as the boards.ie eircom fibre mapping project, maybe we could join forces and highlight empty blocks?

    I don't know how to set up the fusion table/map in the same way as Sponge Bob did, so will need some help with that. I have set up the basic fusion table, but the editing option I was hoping to set is 'allow anyone signed in to a google account to edit', and that doesn't seem to be possible.

    I'm also not sure how to allow people to set the location by clicking on the map - currently you have to paste in the Lat/Long into the fusion table.

    Anyone like to help, either with organising the data collection, or filling in apartment blocks near you?

    This is the link so far - https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?docid=1e-V9LHTjTtToE8wbYUE0G1fzA6zlWBJXozEWcJrk - obviously it's not much use until I figure out the setting to allow other people to edit it!

    I'm not seeing the reason for this exercise. Please explain ?


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  • #12
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    I'm just curious to know if there are empty apartment blocks around the country that are not on the market.

    IF there are a significant amount (I'd say 1,000 apartments or so would be significant), then I might try and use the info to get a story in the newspaper - with a view to putting some pressure on NAMA to release them... so that rents might drop. Ifs buts and maybes for now though. For now, I'm just curious to know if there are lots of empty apartment blocks or not.

    People have PMd me some useful info, I've 3 more apartment blocks to add to the list, and someone else pointed me towards a survey from 2010 by the Dept of Environment of all unfinished and finished but (mainly) vacant blocks. I'll try to import that survey from 2010 into the map, and then maybe check a few of them out.

    I don't have lots of time to work on this, just maybe 30 minutes here and there, so some help would be great.


  • #13
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    FYI - this thread has been unlocked and moved to a new forum. If you're interested in teaming up to find out if there are empty apartment blocks around the place, just let me know.

    The approach I'm thinking of:

    1. Identify most likely empty blocks from the 2010 survey - focussing on Dublin & Cork. Figure out which data to transfer into fusion table, and how best to collaborate with other boardsies to fill it

    2. Get current vacancy/completion data from those blocks

    3. Do a tally of the empty apartments, calculating (i) number/type of empty apts (ii) duration vacant since complete (iii) approx unrealised rental income

    There may well be a smarter way to do this - I'm all ears.


  • #14
    Melanie Wooden Gristle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ Melanie Wooden Gristle


    Why?

    Genuine question. To what end?

    These properties are owned by somebody and if vacant and hen it is by their choice and right.

    I just don't get the point of the initiative.


  • #15
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    I tried to explain it in post 12. I've passed a few in Dublin and wondered 'why are they empty?' 'are they in NAMA?' 'Why would that whole block of finished apartments be empty with rents being so high?' 'Why would the owner of that block not rent them out?' 'Are they publicly owned (NAMA)?' 'Is that a good use of a public asset - to be left empty?'

    IF (and it's a big IF), there are a lot (more than a few hundred) empty apartments between Cork and Dublin, then that would be very interesting - given the 11% rental rise in Dublin in 2013, and the lowest recorded number of rental properties on Daft since Oct 2007.

    2013-q4-rental-stock-flow.png

    Indeed, the same Daft report lists barely 1,500 properties available for rent in Dublin at the start of 2014. Wouldn't it be worth looking into why some blocks of finished apartments are lying empty?

    I'm looking for large numbers of apartments, in mainly vacant blocks, as opposed to single apartments that small landlords have left empty for one reason or another.


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