POC's Red Card.++ Mod Warning. Read OP++

Stev_o · 13-12-2010 1:28pm

Players get tugged and shoved constantly in rugby but what POC did was just a moment of insanity (Manic aggression gone wrong).

He is 100% at fault and he knows it hell look at the video ref blows the whistle once to end the advantage and the second time just after O'Connel strikes out. The moment the second whistle go POC has his hands in the air. He knows he was caught red handed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0YW3AYA570

premierstone · 13-12-2010 1:32pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Interesting that many are saying the ref favoured the Scarlets .

PR see it different , http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16016_6572963,00.html , a touch of the red shades from some here?

Im a munster fan and I would'nt have said he favoured the Ospreys I think he was equally incompetent for both teams and ruined the game as a spectacle tbh, players began to realise he was letting so much off the ball niggle and messing at the breakdown go so took advantage of it, and while there really is no justification for POC's swing it was definitely a knock on effect of our french friends inability to control the game, I mean even the few penalities that he did give for tackling in hte air had to be brought to he's attention by he's touchjudge.

yimrsg · 13-12-2010 1:56pm

Completely off topic but I would pay handsome money for POC to go up against SBW in a ring. Don't think Thomas dived, POC caught him sweet on the chin and dropped him, you can see his legs go all shakey as he goes down.

In all serious the card is deserved. The ref said elbow but it's a clear strike.

calvin_zola · 13-12-2010 1:56pm

Pity POC just couldn't play the game instead of demonstrating his level of or lack of professionalism yesterday

premierstone · 13-12-2010 2:19pm

calvin_zola wrote: »

Pity POC just couldn't play the game instead of demonstrating his level of or lack of professionalism yesterday

Yeah your dead right POC is so unprofessional :rolleyes: cop yourself on lad, your were on here all last week spouting how Ospreys were definitely going to beat Munster, you called that fairly right too

bamboozling · 13-12-2010 2:19pm

Was at the match yesterday, near enough to the incident, in the East terrace and immediately saw what happened and thought it was red. It showed a lack of professionalism and was dangerous. O' Connell knew that by swinging his arm in that manner he would cause damage. He probably didn't want Thomas to end up in hospital but POC wanted to lay down a marker that he wasn't going to take any shít. Its a red in my book and anyone who thinks O' Connell didn't mean it or agrees with what that fool McGurk said last night that Thomas deserved an oscar, is lying through their teeth or quite simply delusional.

I'd also like to say that some of the comments from the 'fans' immediately afterwards were disgraceful to say the least. The abuse given to the referee and touch judge was awful. Three men, all in their thirties, beside me yelled abuse at both officials for the rest of the game. One even had the temerity to call the touch judge a 'n*g**r' which prompted plenty of turned heads with looks of disgust after which he quietened down somewhat. This mob mindset seems to have infiltrated rugby to a certain extent and needs rid. I was there with my father and mother and it was my mothers first time at Thomond and I was disgusted as it ruined the occasion for her.

I know this is slightly off topic but do you know what it needs to be said. The announcer even had to come on the mega phone in the first half to demand silence for the kickers. Yesterday was a pathetic display from some Munster fans and it needs to be rid of from our supporters.

emmet02 · 13-12-2010 2:20pm

calvin_zola wrote: »

Pity POC just couldn't play the game instead of demonstrating his level of or lack of professionalism yesterday

Ridiculous thing to say about a guy who's spent so long on the sidelines. Obviously let the blood go to his head. It happens. he'll do his time.

ucd.1985 wrote: »

Filth, hope he gets a smiliar length ban to Gavin Henson.

Its not filthy, its frustration, but its still a red card. He shouldn't face a similar ban. 6weeks is pretty understandable.

Luckycharm · 13-12-2010 2:28pm

It was a straight red- no way Thomas milked it. You see it all the time if POC has punched down trying to break his grip on him - he probally would not have been punished or if he had made a big drama of it (ala Quinlan) has a tendancy to do then THomas would probally have got penalised. Was the original offence any different to say when DOC held down Phillips which he got penalised for?

SARZY · 13-12-2010 3:04pm

Auvers wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Thomas

"He has just been picked for the Welsh Olympic diving team for his performance at the recent Ospreys Munster match" :pac:

Offside and Interfering with play. This is all down to poor refereeing.

The ref said to O'Connell that he made contact with the 'elbow' and if that was true then a red was correct But we know now that the ref was mistaken.

Severity of sentence to be in the 'mid range' and 4-6 weeks likely.

danthefan · 13-12-2010 3:06pm

Stop blaming the ref, it's pathetic. Mike Philips managed to not get himself sent off when DOC was holding him to the ground stopping him from getting to the next ruck.

kensutz · 13-12-2010 3:07pm

The papers are making it look a lot worse with contact from the elbow whereas my photo shows clearly where O'Connell connected with Jonathan Thomas face. It seems they're trying to make it out to be a lot more serious. Now to check more papers for photo usage.

Mighty_Mouse · 13-12-2010 3:09pm

Im a fan but the attitude of Keyes, McGurk & some munster fans on here is nuts.
He cracked thomas rightly in the mouth & throat. The guy wasn't acting.
He deserved red & could be in trouble this week.
Foolish act from a man too wound up on his return.

thomond2006 · 13-12-2010 3:27pm

Mighty_Mouse wrote: »

Im a fan but the attitude of Keyes, McGurk & some munster fans on here is nuts.
He cracked thomas rightly in the mouth & throat. The guy wasn't acting.
He deserved red & could be in trouble this week.
Foolish act from a man too wound up on his return.

I'm as much respect for his opinions as I do for Hook's and Keyes is an Irish international.

d'Oracle · 13-12-2010 3:29pm

thehighground wrote: »

I'd argue that its the ref's fault for ignoring all the niggle, offside and other stuff - not Thomas's fault.

Its not though.
Its Pauls fault for twatting a lad who was playing rugby for the other team in the head with his forearm.

I really hope this isn't a symptom of something broader.
It was never OK to hit lads for getting away with infringements.

Paparazzo · 13-12-2010 3:54pm

Ah come on, I can't believe some people are saying it wasn't a red and Thomas dived! Are you for real? There shouldn't even be a debate on this.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 13-12-2010 3:55pm

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its not though.
Its Pauls fault for twatting a lad who was playing rugby for the other team in the head with his forearm.

I really hope this isn't a symptom of something broader.
It was never OK to hit lads for getting away with infringements.

POC fully deserved to be sent from the pitch for his stupid actions (whether its red or not, everyone has a different opinion), but those stupid little off the ball incidents should have been stopped long before POC saw the field.

Any ban he does get should be significantly reduced for his previous record; His fight with Cudmore shows (me anyway) that O'Connell is a proper professional regarding stupid incidents. If POC was up to match fitness and was used to playing he would have been used to these little incidents and this would not have happened.

Regardless of the outcome Thomas did deserve a smack in the much for his mess acting

.

I find it pretty amazing that so many non-Munster fans want Ireland's most influencial player messing for a period of time in a WC year

. Its madness tbh. (Notice I said influencial not best, we don't need too many provincial debates raging here :cool:)

LeinsterDub · 13-12-2010 4:00pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Regardless of the outcome Thomas did deserve a smack in the much for his mess acting .

I find it pretty amazing that so many non-Munster fans want Ireland's most influencial player messing for a period of time in a WC year . Its madness tbh. (Notice I said influencial not best, we don't need too many provincial debates raging here :cool:)

No one deserves to take an elbow in the face on the Rugby pitch.

No one want O'Connell missing but you do the crime and you have to do the time

kensutz · 13-12-2010 4:01pm

It wasn't an elbow!

Noffles · 13-12-2010 4:02pm

I find it shocking and predictable to see so many posts stating that he was playing up to that smack in the mouth, it's a right twat in the gob in no uncertain terms and I don't think many players would of stood up for that... and why should they..?

It is a blatant foul and personally I'm pleased that it was a red card and it sends a reminder out that you just can't do that... doesn't matter who it is!

Cpt_Blackbeard · 13-12-2010 4:06pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

No one deserves to take an elbow in the face on the Rugby pitch.

No one want O'Connell missing but you do the crime and you have time

Nobody got an elbow on the Rugby pitch.

Any chance you missed the match and only saw Hooke on the Rte highlights

LeinsterDub · 13-12-2010 4:11pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Nobody got an elbow on the Rugby pitch.

Any chance you missed the match and only saw Hooke on the Rte highlights

I'm sorry, I stand corrected an open handed hit to the neck ,which looked to have a fair bit of force behind it because that is so much better

Otacon · 13-12-2010 4:20pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'm sorry, I stand corrected an open handed hit to the neck ,which looked to have a fair bit of force behind it because that is so much better

You need to stand corrected again tbh; it was a wrist into the mouth.

Anyway, that doesn't really matter. Personally, I though POC deserved the red and probably a two-week ban. However, Berdos was rubbish, again, and Thomas should be ashamed of himself for the 'drama'.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 13-12-2010 4:29pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'm sorry, I stand corrected an open handed hit to the neck ,which looked to have a fair bit of force behind it because that is so much better

His chin iirc.

But yes that is "so much better", as you put it. An elbow can do much more damage than a forearm can.

In relation to Thomas, its mentioned on the Ospreys' site that he didn't feel himself after the match. The irony of him having a concussion and missing 3 weeks and O'Connell getting 2 weeks would be epic

. I don't wish a concussion upon him as Fogarty and Jackman retired because of them, but the irony would be brilliant.

Oh and here is some bull from Jonathan Humphreys on the Ospreys'd site:

"Paul O'Connell is not a dirty player by any stretch of the imagination. A very similar thing happened to Gavin Henson against Leicester, and unfortunately he got ten weeks for an offence like that. Everybody in the rugby world knows Paul, we've played against him a lot and have a lot of admiration for him as a player. He's an iconic figure, so it's disappointing for him and Munster that he potentially could miss a large chunk of the season now."

Comparing a flailing arm to a premeditated and unprovoked elbow is just crazy

buck65 · 13-12-2010 4:33pm

I jest of course but it is somewhat dispiriting to see some of the provincial tripe rear it's head again in the shape of so called objective opionions. Shameful comments like "Filth" and "elbow smash" etc being mentioned. Not long ago Jamie Heaslip was in a similar situation and I felt there was a little more restraint on the forum than some are showing here, of course I'm biased but attacking proven Irish sportsmen when they're down is all too easy here. Alot of posters live for these incidents and rarely come out to play for the rest of the season.
These things happen in a savage contact sport. Do I think any less of Hayes, Heaslip, Jennings, O Connell because of it? Not a chance.

LeinsterDub · 13-12-2010 4:39pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

His chin iirc.

But yes that is "so much better", as you put it. An elbow can do much more damage than a forearm can.

In relation to Thomas, its mentioned on the Ospreys' site that he didn't feel himself after the match. The irony of him having a concussion and missing 3 weeks and O'Connell getting 2 weeks would be epic . I don't wish a concussion upon him as Fogarty and Jackman retired because of them, but the irony would be brilliant.

Oh and here is some bull from Jonathan Humphreys on the Ospreys'd site:

"Paul O'Connell is not a dirty player by any stretch of the imagination. A very similar thing happened to Gavin Henson against Leicester, and unfortunately he got ten weeks for an offence like that. Everybody in the rugby world knows Paul, we've played against him a lot and have a lot of admiration for him as a player. He's an iconic figure, so it's disappointing for him and Munster that he potentially could miss a large chunk of the season now."

Comparing a flailing arm to a premeditated and unprovoked elbow is just crazy

Check that clip 20 seconds in, his hand contacts his neck.

Anyway all this nit picking is beside the point. What he done was dangerous and reckless at best. If you do something like that on a rugby pitch you deserve a ban.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 13-12-2010 4:42pm

buck65 wrote: »

Not if you are a Leinster supporter:D
I jest of course but it is somewhat dispiriting to see some of the provincial tripe rear it's head again in the shape of so called objective opionions. Shameful comments like "Filth" and "elbow smash" etc being mentioned. Not long ago Jamie Heaslip was in a similar situation and I felt there was a little more restraint on the forum than some are showing here, of course I'm biased but attacking proven Irish sportsmen when their down is all too easy here. Alot of posters live for these incidents and rarely come out to play for the rest of the season.
These things happen in a savage contact sport. Do I think any less of Hayes, Heaslip, Jennings, O Connell because of it? Not a chance.

The Heaslip and Jennings incidents were positively 100% totally different...definitely :P

...Maybe

Boom__Boom · 13-12-2010 4:45pm

No real problem with the ref giving a red from what he saw but if you look at the very start of this video it's clear that Thomas has a hold of O'Connel's shorts very close to the groin area.

Holding/pulling back a player by their shorts/grabbing around the groin area has the potential to be extremely painful and I wouldn't be surprised if it was somewhat a case of an instinctive reaction to that.

I would have a lot more sympathy to someone reacting to this compared to someone pulling/holding someone back by pulling a jersey.

There's also the fact that the ref clearly says elbow to the face, so I would imagine that given the ref got that wrong the punishment woulnd be too severe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O8s5J9yjxg

buck65 · 13-12-2010 4:46pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The Heaslip and Jennings incidents were positively 100% totally different...definitely :P

...Maybe

I know, McCaw could have lost a shoulder and Kennedy a scrum cap.

emmet02 · 13-12-2010 4:46pm

buck65 wrote: »

I jest of course but it is somewhat dispiriting to see some of the provincial tripe rear it's head again in the shape of so called objective opionions. Shameful comments like "Filth" and "elbow smash" etc being mentioned. Not long ago Jamie Heaslip was in a similar situation and I felt there was a little more restraint on the forum than some are showing here, of course I'm biased but attacking proven Irish sportsmen when they're down is all too easy here. Alot of posters live for these incidents and rarely come out to play for the rest of the season.
These things happen in a savage contact sport. Do I think any less of Hayes, Heaslip, Jennings, O Connell because of it? Not a chance.

If you didn't have that first line which is definitely due to spark something, I'd agree unquestionably with this whole post.

edit - cheers, good man!

emmet02 · 13-12-2010 4:48pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O8s5J9yjxg

great video. Get a chance to see it in real time, no instant replay, with the same line of sight as the referee.

Insta red card from his angle. And unquestionable imo

POC's Red Card.++ Mod Warning. Read OP++

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