The Middle Distance Thread

Good initiative setting up the thread pconn. Time is going so fast, the track season will hit us in no time. Never thought I'd be doing this myself as I'd say I am mostly slow twitch. If you want to improve your long distances though, the optimal way to do it is to make those paces feel easy by running shorter and faster.

I'll give it my best. I intend to give the track races a shot every summer from now on. At least I will be doing the training with people who have a good track record (pun intended), and plenty of experience. My form and economy could be improved over longer distances by running many track races.
I think people are intimidated by the explosive bursts of speed. Most runners enjoy the relaxed, and comparatively slow pace of the long races. To be honest that's exactly what my mindset was when I decided to go straight into the marathon.
Am going to be focusing on 8s/15s/mile this summer. Will probably try a couple of 3000m too. I am getting excited. No idea what kind of times I am capable of so that is a mystery I will eventually come to realise.

Cheers Timmaay. Guess I can't troll the boards anymore now that you've realised who I am. Hope the training is going well and your recovered since last time I saw you . Btw just to confirm, I'm Huayra

YFlyer wrote: »

On the letsrun sub 1:50 800m thread Anthony Colotti mentioned the following.

TRAINING FOR ANAEROBIC POWER (is your ability in running faster possible distances from 300m to 600m, depending on your event). You must run at max intensity, this is a training but also a test, and the competition is a training too. Your goal are to become able to produce more lactate (for example, if you run 300m in 38.0 with 12mmol, the most important limiting factor is that youe engine doesn't have POWER enough. So you must become able to produce 15mmol, and when you are able, you can run in 36.5). If you are a sprinter, 300m is the longer distance that you can use for this goal. If you are a distance runner, 500-600m are better.


Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2669719&page=5#ixzz2r2vQqwTU

He mentions about increasing blood lactate levels to get more Power.

My questions is how can you increase your blood lactate levels to 15mmol or so?

I think he mentions it there with regards 500-600m reps of high intensity with long recoveries. Admittedly this is one aspect of training physiology I have not looked at in a long while (and not in as much depth as I would have liked) but to the best of my knowlege this would be along the lines of 3x600m @ 800m pace off very long recoveries. I know 400m runners would have similar whereby they are running 300m off long recoveries (when I say long I am talking the best part of 10 min in between).

This however require a few complementary aspects of training
- Lactic tolerance (Your bodies ability to become as efficient as possible at the height of lactic accumulation i.e minimal fading in the final 1/4 of an 800m)
- The raw speed to be able to generate enough speed to allow your energy pathways to require that much anaerobic output.

Best of luck to all the lads running.

Always interested to see what peoples sessions look like when it comes to a big race week like this? How do people balance keeping the legs fresh while staying in touch with race pace?

Anyone suggest any 800m plans for a low mileage runner 30/35 mpw..
I was thinking if I concentrated on my 5k times for the next couple of months, it would have me strong enough for late March/April with racing starting in May. Just looking for ideas/thoughts thanks

Letyourselfgo wrote: »

Anyone suggest any 800m plans for a low mileage runner 30/35 mpw..
I was thinking if I concentrated on my 5k times for the next couple of months, it would have me strong enough for late March/April with racing starting in May. Just looking for ideas/thoughts thanks

I think if you are going to do a 30/35 mpw style training you are probably best off concentrating on 5k training for now to build up your aerobic base before you go into specific training as 35 mpw is not a huge amount to work with and as such your overall intensity on a daily basis will have to be pretty high to get the best bang for your buck without overcooking it and frying yourself before you get into proper race fitness. I think dna eluded to this in his review of indoors and the importance of endurance going into race specific work so my advice would be as follows

1) Next few months build strength and aerobic power this means Tempo's and CV reps (600s-1200s I think probably be the most suitable). Off such low mileage I would try to use longer aerobic threshold tempos (at around MP) as a replacement for the traditional long run (5-7 miles), Supplement this with steady longs runs (8-10 miles). It is not uncommon for 800m runners to do these longer style workouts, Joe Vigil (if you can get his book definitely worth a read) has used these to great effect with some of his runners and if you look at Brenda Martinez over the last 18 months it is not uncommon to see 10 mile tempo's pop up in here winter training

2) Turnover is something which takes practice. You should be doing something atleast once a week to work on turnover. During your endurance work these can be as simple as a lactic strides (after run or 6-8* 80-100m). These should not be hard and the recoveries in between should be sufficient that these do not become a session

3) Ancillary work is crucial - off such low mileage you will need to be making up the effort elsewhere and this is where the ancillary work comes in - weights and low intensity plyometrics should become a part of your overall weekly routine. Introduce these slowly to allow your body to adapt but stressing the CNS will be of huge value when it comes to speed development sessions in the season and also form

4) Keep your runs short but steady - off that low mileage I would say you would get a better bang for your buck running short doubles rather than longer singles. Running 2*4 milers at a steady pace (just slower than MP) will yield better aerobic returns for a low mileage 800m runner than one slower 8 mile run. The shorter runs means that your body should recover that bit better while being able to achieve high intensity but this element of training is one that will come into play more as you get closer to your season.

Once you get into your season you should aim to have one race pace session every week with a supplementary session (Over distance/ Under distance on alternating weeks). Turnover work can be counted as a third session of the week but again aim to try and keep these alactic.

Timmaay wrote: »

Many people end up doing the opposite ha? Tried to run 800 off a very limited aerobic base? Obviously far from ideal but there comes times when you aren't fit, have a possible 800 coming up in say 2/3weeks, do ya just wing it, doing your few 800pace sessions and give it a shot on the day ha? Ok yes, that is me right at the minute ha, might jump into the Leinster indoor 800 on the 9th! Or should I forget about it ha?

Your what I would call the exception that proves the rule. I can't remember the last time you came into a season off a decent base for one reason or another all way through college but managed to race yourself into shape. Normally common sense would suggest you should forget it but knowing your history I would say go for it

With regards to strength training, how often and when is the best day to do it, same day as a session?