[Tox56]

There was a brief moment where we were really starting to get into a rhythm and NZ were unable to slow us down, and for a few phases in that period we saw exactly what Murray is capable of.

He has a very good pass when he gets it away, he's got reasonable pace for a big guy, and he was just picking and going on the run, giving us great go-forward ball. He was able to fix defenders and looked really dangerous.

He needs to learn how to play like that consistently, and when combined with his defence he becomes a really useful player. Hopefully people will be pointing this stuff out to him, I'm sure they are.

[P_1]

On today's evidence it seems that Murray and Sexton seem to be getting used to each other. Shame it has taken so long for that to happen but here's hoping that they continue to click

[irishbucsfan]

Originally Posted by Tox56

There was a brief moment where we were really starting to get into a rhythm and NZ were unable to slow us down, and for a few phases in that period we saw exactly what Murray is capable of.

He has a very good pass when he gets it away, he's got reasonable pace for a big guy, and he was just picking and going on the run, giving us great go-forward ball. He was able to fix defenders and looked really dangerous.

He needs to learn how to play like that consistently, and when combined with his defence he becomes a really useful player. Hopefully people will be pointing this stuff out to him, I'm sure they are.

David Mannix will be starting from scratch with him, effectively. Strikes me as a pretty honest chap!

[padraig.od]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

It's not even just that. The time between him picking it up and passing it is completely wasted.

If you look at Will Genia, he will pick the ball and his footwork will mimic a break until he gets the ball away. The players around the ruck are held and that creates extra space for his first receiver. Murray on the other hand doesnt do that, he takes a few lateral steps, comes upright, then throws his pass. It serves no purpose other than slowing down play and giving the oppositions defense an extra split second on the break. Its a fatal flaw in his technique IMO.

Saying that, everything else was absolutely fine today and I reckon he did better than Reddan would have overall. If he plays like that from now on we'll be fine with Reddan on after 60. However if that's him "playing well" and his average level of performance is below that then we need another option.

Fair point. Is it a coincidence that Murray (or any half back for that matter) look much better when playing behind a pack that is on top? I think there is an issue with his "meercat" impression but from what I've seen he's cut that out a lot (only once or twice today for example) but I don't think his delivery is noticeably slower than, say Philips for example.

[Podge_irl]

His delivery was never the problem. It was the interminable amount of time before his delivery which manifested in both dithering at the ruck and taking far too long to get there in the first place.

[danthefan]

Originally Posted by Podge_irl

His delivery was never the problem. It was the interminable amount of time before his delivery which manifested in both dithering at the ruck and taking far too long to get there in the first place.

This was a massive issue, imo the absolute biggest thing. I can remember in the 6N there was a space of about 2 minutes in which 4 or 5 different players ended up having to pass from the base of the ruck, one of the Mike Ross ffs who I'd imagine could be relatively speaking the worst passer on the team, because Murray was AWOL.

[Phonehead]

It looks like we may just accept that Kidney does not change, the Backrow were so dominant yesterday that Murray wasn't put under pressure! Something he has consistently shown he can't cope with due to his need to spend half a minute deciding what to do.

[Amazotheamazing]

Conor Murray has started 29 professional games (21 for Munster, 8 for Ireland). He is massively, massively inexperienced, and people here are confusing inexperience for inability.

By comparison, Reddan has started 21 times for Ireland, so should Reddan start next week, he'll have started more times for Ireland than Murray has for Munster.

Murray could be a super player, he has all the attributes but ideally he'd spend a full season just with his head down working away in Munster.

[fitz]

Originally Posted by Amazotheamazing

Conor Murray has started 29 professional games (21 for Munster, 8 for Ireland). He is massively, massively inexperienced, and people here are confusing inexperience for inability.

By comparison, Reddan has started 21 times for Ireland, so should Reddan start next week, he'll have started more times for Ireland than Murray has for Munster.

Murray could be a super player, he has all the attributes but ideally he'd spend a full season just with his head down working away in Munster.

IBF's analysis of his flaws is spot on, and I agree with everything you've said there Amazo. I'm really hopefully that Penney/Mannix can help Murray realise his potential, because if he can do that, he'll be some player.

[totallegend]

Originally Posted by Amazotheamazing

Conor Murray has started 29 professional games (21 for Munster, 8 for Ireland). He is massively, massively inexperienced, and people here are confusing inexperience for inability.

By comparison, Reddan has started 21 times for Ireland, so should Reddan start next week, he'll have started more times for Ireland than Murray has for Munster.

Murray could be a super player, he has all the attributes but ideally he'd spend a full season just with his head down working away in Munster.

I agree. The guy has a decent pass on him when he chooses to use it, just doesn't do so often enough.

Unfortunately, he is now the undisputed first choice for Ireland so the chances of him getting a full season with Munster are precisely zero.