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CID Enquiries

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  • 06-04-2014 11:11pm
    #1
    whiteandlight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭


    Well it's that time of year where CIDs come into play for many people so a thread for info/advice might be useful, particularly since some people will get them early due to HR. I got my first question tonight about one from a friend. I'm also due a part time CID myself this year. From what I know:

    1. You are only entitled to a CID for the hours in your previous contract (not the current)
    2. There are many types of hours that do not count (job share, secondment, special concession hours from the department). They must be your own.

    Can a school grant you a CID for more hours than the previous contract? Say you had a situation (not mine) assuming hours are CIDable so to speak
    Y1: 8 hr contract
    Y2: 13hr contract
    Y3: 22hr contract

    The fourth contract will be a CID under HR (asfaik). I know the school has to grant you the 13hr CID, the question I was asked this evening is whether they can grant you a CID for more than the 13hrs? (Ignoring whether they will or won't, just if it's possible)


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  • Options
    #2
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Musicmental85 wrote: »
    Well it's that time of year where CIDs come into play for many people so a thread for info/advice might be useful, particularly since some people will get them early due to HR. I got my first question tonight about one from a friend. I'm also due a part time CID myself this year. From what I know:

    1. You are only entitled to a CID for the hours in your previous contract (not the current)
    2. There are many types of hours that do not count (job share, secondment, special concession hours from the department). They must be your own.

    Can a school grant you a CID for more hours than the previous contract? Say you had a situation (not mine) assuming hours are CIDable so to speak
    Y1: 8 hr contract
    Y2: 13hr contract
    Y3: 22hr contract

    The fourth contract will be a CID under HR (asfaik). I know the school has to grant you the 13hr CID, the question I was asked this evening is whether they can grant you a CID for more than the 13hrs? (Ignoring whether they will or won't, just if it's possible)


    The CID is awarded from the start of the fourth year, for 22 hours (unless the exceptions in 2 above apply)


  • Options
    #3
    dory
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,480 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    Musicmental85 wrote: »
    Well it's that time of year where CIDs come into play for many people so a thread for info/advice might be useful, particularly since some people will get them early due to HR. I got my first question tonight about one from a friend. I'm also due a part time CID myself this year. From what I know:

    1. You are only entitled to a CID for the hours in your previous contract (not the current)
    2. There are many types of hours that do not count (job share, secondment, special concession hours from the department). They must be your own.

    Can a school grant you a CID for more hours than the previous contract? Say you had a situation (not mine) assuming hours are CIDable so to speak
    Y1: 8 hr contract
    Y2: 13hr contract
    Y3: 22hr contract

    The fourth contract will be a CID under HR (asfaik). I know the school has to grant you the 13hr CID, the question I was asked this evening is whether they can grant you a CID for more than the 13hrs? (Ignoring whether they will or won't, just if it's possible)

    Why do you say 13hrs? I thought it you did three years, you got a CID at the beginning of the 4th for the hours you had in the 3rd (if they're CIDable as you say).


  • Options
    #4
    whiteandlight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭whiteandlight


    dory wrote: »
    Why do you say 13hrs? I thought it you did three years, you got a CID at the beginning of the 4th for the hours you had in the 3rd (if they're CIDable as you say).

    To be honest i just assumed that as you are now getting a CID a year earlier under the HR that the same terms would apply just a year earlier. Looks like I'm wrong?


  • Options
    #5
    seavill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    The old rule was you got it at start of 5th year based on hours in 4th year I thought?

    That would make it getting it start of 4th year based on 3rd years hours


  • Options
    #6
    whiteandlight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭whiteandlight


    I am out by a year amn't I? Oops sorry!!

    Y1: 8 hr contract
    Y2: 13hr contract
    Y3: 22hr contract
    Y4: 4 hr contract

    Would still result in Y5 22hours under HR? I think I've fried my brain...


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  • Options
    #7
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Musicmental85 wrote: »
    Well it's that time of year where CIDs come into play for many people so a thread for info/advice might be useful, particularly since some people will get them early due to HR. I got my first question tonight about one from a friend. I'm also due a part time CID myself this year. From what I know:

    1. You are only entitled to a CID for the hours in your previous contract (not the current)
    2. There are many types of hours that do not count (job share, secondment, special concession hours from the department). They must be your own.

    Can a school grant you a CID for more hours than the previous contract? Say you had a situation (not mine) assuming hours are CIDable so to speak
    Y1: 8 hr contract
    Y2: 13hr contract
    Y3: 22hr contract

    The fourth contract will be a CID under HR (asfaik). I know the school has to grant you the 13hr CID, the question I was asked this evening is whether they can grant you a CID for more than the 13hrs? (Ignoring whether they will or won't, just if it's possible)



    CIDs are now granted after 3 years. So the contract will be for whatever hours you had in your third year. In the example above a CID would be given for 22 hours. The CID is awarded if you are brought back to start your fourth year.


  • Options
    #8
    seavill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    That would be my reading on it anyway but I'm no expert


  • Options
    #9
    whiteandlight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭whiteandlight


    So anyone who had low hours in year three but increased in year four by a nice principal ready for a CID can be screwed by HR? Or can the school choose to give the higher amount?

    Y1 5
    Y2 10
    Y3 12
    Y4 20

    Pre HR this would have meant the fifth contract would be CID for 20 AFAIR. With HR these people are getting CIDs currently but the school can give them based on last years hours, in that example CID for 12?


  • Options
    #10
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Musicmental85 wrote: »
    I am out by a year amn't I? Oops sorry!!

    Y1: 8 hr contract
    Y2: 13hr contract
    Y3: 22hr contract
    Y4: 4 hr contract

    Would still result in Y5 22hours under HR? I think I've fried my brain...

    Yes. The teachers in my school who are currently in their fourth year were awarded CIDs midway through this year based on their third years hours. The CID should have been granted at this stage for 22 hours assuming there were no claim to the hours from elsewhere (job share etc).


  • Options
    #11
    whiteandlight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭whiteandlight


    Boo. So my reading of it for her was correct albeit that I was out by a year in my OP last night. Sucks for them.


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  • Options
    #12
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Musicmental85 wrote: »
    So anyone who had low hours in year three but increased in year four by a nice principal ready for a CID can be screwed by HR? Or can the school choose to give the higher amount?

    Y1 5
    Y2 10
    Y3 12
    Y4 20

    Pre HR this would have meant the fifth contract would be CID for 20 AFAIR. With HR these people are getting CIDs currently but the school can give them based on last years hours, in that example CID for 12?

    My understanding of HR is that because of this anomaly teachers granted a CID this year for 12 hours as in the example above, can get an improved CID next year based on the hours of their fourth year because it was expected that that was what their CID would have been based on before the HR agreement. It will be three year rule for everyone from next year on.


  • Options
    #13
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    zombi wrote: »
    Hi all

    Just some advice please. I am in my fourth contracted year at my school and as far as I was aware CIDs were meant to be sent out for those who had completed three years after Haddington Road. So far I've heard nothing.

    Anyone else in the same boat?

    Are you Department or ETB?


  • Options
    #14
    6am7f9zxrsjvnb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 430 ✭✭6am7f9zxrsjvnb


    Can a summer redeployment scupper your CID if you`ve just completed 3 fixed term contracts? Would your union be willing to challenge?


  • Options
    #15
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Alyson Rapping Lumber wrote: »
    Can a summer redeployment scupper your CID if you`ve just completed 3 fixed term contracts? Would your union be willing to challenge?

    Yes. In theory. We had teacher let go 2 years ago after completing 4 years. You have to be asked back the following year to get the CID so technically a redeployment of a permanent teacher could displace a teacher of 3 years. That's not to say that the union would not fight the case, particularly if there was the option to redeploy the teacher elsewhere or in the place of another teacher who wasn't there as long. I think redeployment tries to avoid that situation by and large. The teacher in my school was just let go, no redeployment.


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    #16
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Yes. In theory. We had teacher let go 2 years ago after completing 4 years. You have to be asked back the following year to get the CID so technically a redeployment of a permanent teacher could displace a teacher of 3 years. That's not to say that the union would not fight the case, particularly if there was the option to redeploy the teacher elsewhere or in the place of another teacher who wasn't there as long. I think redeployment tries to avoid that situation by and large. The teacher in my school was just let go, no redeployment.

    Just wondering though.. regarding the teacher that was let go, did their hours vanish or did someone else take their hours?


  • Options
    #17
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Armelodie wrote: »
    Just wondering though.. regarding the teacher that was let go, did their hours vanish or did someone else take their hours?

    They were moved to a permanent teacher's timetable. I think the general consensus was this was not done out of necessity though.


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    #18
    faughs
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭faughs


    I was awarded a 6 hour CID in January due to HR.. I am on 14 hours this year though which was due to be my CID next September and the VP has assured me that I will be issued with a new CID in September for my 14 hours.


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    #19
    whiteandlight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭whiteandlight


    I see on educationposts an 18hr CID being advertised, I thought they were granted on tenure?


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    #20
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Musicmental85 wrote: »
    I see on educationposts an 18hr CID being advertised, I thought they were granted on tenure?

    Schools are obliged to give them after 3 years, there's nothing to stop them awarding a CID before then. They just choose not to give CID status until they have to.


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    #21
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Schools are obliged to give them after 3 years, there's nothing to stop them awarding a CID before then. They just choose not to give CID status until they have to.

    Is it a dept. contract though? (Sorry I can't remember my login).. it's a fee paying school so it might be private paid.
    I'd say any school would be afraid to put up the word 'Permanent' on the site.. could you imagine the amount of applications!!


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    #22
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Armelodie wrote: »
    Is it a dept. contract though? (Sorry I can't remember my login).. it's a fee paying school so it might be private paid.
    I'd say any school would be afraid to put up the word 'Permanent' on the site.. could you imagine the amount of applications!!

    Thing is if I saw an advert for a permanent job now I'd just assume someone was already in the job and the interview process was just a formality.


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