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Why aren't Irish composers more rated?

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    #32
    SubBusted
    Site Banned Posts: 224 ✭✭SubBusted


    Undergod wrote: »
    The CMC is more for people who write concert and chamber music, as far as I can tell, so maybe that's why?

    What about Daniel Figgis then? He's not listed as a member on the CMC site yet writes concert/chamber/installation music. Big article about him in today's Irish Times.


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    #33
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    SubBusted wrote: »
    What about Daniel Figgis then? He's not listed as a member on the CMC site yet writes concert/chamber/installation music. Big article about him in today's Irish Times.

    I imagine you would be better off asking Daniel Figgis why he is not a member of the CMC than us, he could probably give you a better answer. Maybe he has never looked to join for personal reasons?


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    #34
    SubBusted
    Site Banned Posts: 224 ✭✭SubBusted


    Or maybe he's not an respected academic with a Masters who composes on the side so couldn't get in? Would any other Irish composer pose on a record cover with his genitals exposed? Who in the CMC would have the real balls to do that?


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    #35
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    SubBusted wrote: »
    Or maybe he's not an respected academic with a Masters who composes on the side so couldn't get in? Would any other Irish composer pose on a record cover with his genitals exposed? Who in the CMC would have the real balls to do that?

    Who indeed, I'll definitely keep it in mind though for my first commercial CD! :)


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    #36
    Undergod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    SubBusted wrote: »
    Or maybe he's not an respected academic with a Masters who composes on the side so couldn't get in?

    This also describes other CMC members.
    SubBusted wrote: »
    Would any other Irish composer pose on a record cover with his genitals exposed? Who in the CMC would have the real balls to do that?
    pconn062 wrote: »
    Who indeed, I'll definitely keep it in mind though for my first commercial CD! smile.png

    Race you?


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    #37
    richardh330
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭richardh330


    So how does CMC promote composers? Does it sponsor composer for commercial CDs or provide them with ensembles and groups to play their works? Is it in any way beneficial? Also is the Association of Irish Composers (AIC) and the Irish Composers' Collective (ICC) any good?


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    #38
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    richardh330 wrote: »
    So how does CMC promote composers? Does it sponsor composer for commercial CDs or provide them with ensembles and groups to play their works? Is it in any way beneficial? Also is the Association of Irish Composers (AIC) and the Irish Composers' Collective (ICC) any good?

    The CMC primarily supports composers by archiving your scores in their library, the scores and any CD's are also available to buy through the website. They also support composers by advertising any upcoming concerts, launches, CD's etc on their website and through social media. So yes, it is very beneficial. They do not provide funding for commercial CD's (although they do release CD's that feature works by multiple Irish composers) and they do not provide ensembles to perform your music. That is up to you.

    I don't know much about the AIC but I am a member of the ICC which is a group of young composers who, with funding from the Art's council, hold concerts every month featuring works by it's members. It is an extremely worthwhile group to join and I have had at least three performances in the National Concert Hall thanks to being a member of the ICC.

    One thing I want to make clear is that being a composer in Ireland is tough, no one is going to provide you with ensembles or lots of money for commercial CD's, it is really up to you to go out, join groups, meet performers, go to concerts etc and look for your own performances. No one will come to you begging for scores or new works (unfortunately!), it really is a case of you get out of it what you put in to it.


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    #39
    SubBusted
    Site Banned Posts: 224 ✭✭SubBusted


    pconn062 wrote: »
    They do not provide funding for commercial CD's
    Has any contemporary Irish composer actually released a full CD of their own music?


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    #40
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    SubBusted wrote: »
    Has any contemporary Irish composer actually released a full CD of their own music?

    Yes, loads have. If you follow this link you can see the full range of CD's available for sale on the CMC website. Many of them are full releases of individual composers works.

    http://www.cmc.ie/shop/shop_by_comp.cfm


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    #41
    purebeta
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭purebeta


    CMC didn't accept me this time :(,
    really hoping they give some good reasons why when I meet them.

    Appart from not entering competitions, particularly because I don't agree with them.

    Maybe cause I'm only 23 haha


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    #42
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    purebeta wrote: »
    CMC didn't accept me this time :(,
    really hoping they give some good reasons why when I meet them.

    Appart from not entering competitions, particularly because I don't agree with them.

    Maybe cause I'm only 23 haha

    Don't be disheartened, you can always apply again. Do you have many works in your portfolio?


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    #43
    purebeta
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭purebeta


    Yeah I've about 27, but I'll go again once I get definite answers.


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    #44
    SubBusted
    Site Banned Posts: 224 ✭✭SubBusted


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Don't be disheartened, you can always apply again. Do you have many works in your portfolio?
    Don't bother. Why would you want to join those nobodies anyway? Anyone can become a composer without having to join a silly society.


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    #45
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    purebeta wrote: »
    CMC didn't accept me this time :(,
    really hoping they give some good reasons why when I meet them.

    Appart from not entering competitions, particularly because I don't agree with them.

    Maybe cause I'm only 23 haha

    I'm interested in hearing why you don't agree with competitions? There are usually an important step in a young composers career. I have entered a good few myself and while more often than not it turns out to be unsuccessful, I still found it to be a useful endeavor.


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    #46
    purebeta
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭purebeta


    Emm, don't think I want to get into it but...I'm not sure if they give a good indication of a works worth.
    Calls for scores or concerts are fine where there can be more than one 'winner',
    but the idea of a 'best' composition doesn't resonate with me.
    Plus judges are incredibly biased even if they don't seem to be.
    And it's especially so in Irelands largely conservative scene.
    I'm not trying to make enemies, just stating my opinion.
    pb~


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    #47
    Undergod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    SubBusted wrote: »
    Don't bother. Why would you want to join those nobodies anyway? Anyone can become a composer without having to join a silly society.

    No one is saying otherwise. Why are you behaving so obnoxiously? Did a composer steal your car or something?


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    #48
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    purebeta wrote: »
    Emm, don't think I want to get into it but...I'm not sure if they give a good indication of a works worth.
    Calls for scores or concerts are fine where there can be more than one 'winner',
    but the idea of a 'best' composition doesn't resonate with me.
    Plus judges are incredibly biased even if they don't seem to be.
    And it's especially so in Irelands largely conservative scene.
    I'm not trying to make enemies, just stating my opinion.
    pb~

    I presume you mean biased in terms of style? Most competitions are anonymous, as in there are no names on the scores.
    Funny, I wouldn't have regarded Irish composers as being particularly conservative in nature, many of them are heavily influenced by the European modernist movement, particularly the more well known such as Gerald Barry, Ian Wilson, John Buckley etc.


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    #49
    purebeta
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭purebeta


    Yeah stylistic bias and allegiances. I know this about the pseudonyms, i've entered a few.

    That's precisely what I mean, that kind of 'European Modernism' is quite conservative in these times.
    Those more well known ones would be conservative in my books.
    Music history does not stop at 1945.


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    #50
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    purebeta wrote: »
    Yeah stylistic bias and allegiances. I know this about the pseudonyms, i've entered a few.

    That's precisely what I mean, that kind of 'European Modernism' is quite conservative in these times.
    Those more well known ones would be conservative in my books.
    Music history does not stop at 1945.

    Ha, fair enough, I've heard Gerald Barry called a lot of things, but never conservative! :) Each to their own I suppose.


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    #51
    SubBusted
    Site Banned Posts: 224 ✭✭SubBusted


    pconn062 wrote: »
    I'm interested in hearing why you don't agree with competitions?
    They usually charge an entry fee and the best one rarely wins. Read this: http://ericwhitacre.com/blog/advice-for-the-emerging-composer-competitions


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    #52
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    SubBusted wrote: »
    They usually charge an entry fee and the best one rarely wins. Read this: http://ericwhitacre.com/blog/advice-for-the-emerging-composer-competitions

    I wasn't actually aiming my question at you, and I don't really care what Whitaker has to say on the subject given that I am not much of a fan of his and I am more than capable of making up my own mind about these things, rather than needing to be told what to think by another composer.


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    #53
    Undergod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Undergod


    My thought on competitions; It's pretty hard to fairly judge a composition on the basis of the score; you can probably weed out terrible music, but something that sounds great might not be okay on paper.

    EDIT: Just read the Whitacre blog; I agree with a lot of what he says. It gets you to work to a deadline and it gets you exposure.


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    #54
    SubBusted
    Site Banned Posts: 224 ✭✭SubBusted


    pconn062 wrote: »
    I wasn't actually aiming my question at you, and I don't really care what Whitaker has to say on the subject given that I am not much of a fan of his and I am more than capable of making up my own mind about these things, rather than needing to be told what to think by another composer.
    Well pardon me all over the place! Where's a link to your compositions then if you don't want to hear other composers' opinions?


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