Government agreement: Free-To-Air RTE in NI, BBC in RoI on DTT platform

Elmo wrote: »

I agree with you all that Pay DTT is not a runner.

But to think that we should submit our network - and it is our network - to Channels with no remit to Irish audience other than they are free is just shotting Irish TV in the foot.

50% of all advertising revenue would see itself out of the country into the hands of the big companies you are all talking about. And it isn't like RTÉ, TV3 or TG4 are going to be available across the UK, in exchange for British aimed services who will take 50% of the advertising reveune we will get NI and TG4 and RTÉ could expect to get less than 10% of that markets advertising share. It doesn't seem to pay of for the Irish viewer, the Irish Economy or Irish programming.

DTT in the UK has pretty much been ring fenced for UK channels, BBC, ITV, C4 and five each have 2 or more DTT channels and a few from Virgin, MTV, UKTV and Sky but they main rely on pay TV.

The DTT services would have been better of with the BAI issuing licences for DTT services local, community and commercial that reside in Ireland and that would pay for space on the network. With RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 been given the opportunity to provide other services. Free TV that would create jobs in the country or at least retain jobs.

To give the spectrum totally over to major players in the international market would certainly kill TV3. And while I have reservation about TV3 I would rather see them compete with MiTV than MTV, WTV than Living, PTV than Home.

Its all well and good to talk about new Irish channels but these channels dont exists and the investment needed to start a new TV channel is far higher than that needed to rebroadcast existing channels with Irish advertising.

The reality of the matter is that people like these channels and would like to get them for free. The new Irish channels you speak about are unproven theoretical channels and may have rubbish content which is no good to anyone.

Whether the money stays in Ireland or not for advertising is surely a secondary matter to have access to free channels in the first place. Something is better than nothing?

slegs wrote: »

Its all well and good to talk about new Irish channels but these channels dont exists and the investment needed to start a new TV channel is far higher than that needed to rebroadcast existing channels with Irish advertising.

The reality of the matter is that people like these channels and would like to get them for free. The new Irish channels you speak about are unproven theoretical channels and may have rubbish content which is no good to anyone.

Whether the money stays in Ireland or not for advertising is surely a secondary matter to have access to free channels in the first place. Something is better than nothing?

3e is E4, Living, Comedy Central etc its gets 1% as do they they aren't really all that proven or that people really really want them.

The channels that I mention are all ready licensed for Cable transmission by the BAI. Viva isn't that common in ROI yet you seem to think that it should be given access to FTA plus all other platforms. A music channel would not cost all that much to set up for any of the Irish channels, they already spend money on the network. MiTV, WTV, City, PTV would all be must carries for UPC and cable.

Keeping money in an economy that is in free fall is a secondary concern while giving people Free Pay TV such as Living is a primary concern?????

Obviously these channels will have to do a cost benefit analysis and maybe try to cut a deal that is in both parties interests.

Which any new Irish channel from existing broadcasters would also have to undertake.

They had no problem hopping on to the UK Freeview system, and while there is a smaller audience in Southern Ireland, the BAI could come up with a carriage deal that suits both parties.

Lets face it sky want to bring Freeview into a Pay model. They only provide Sky 3, Sky News and Sky Sport News on Freeview for free. MTV only provide Viva, while Virgin only provide Virgin 1, UKTV provide Dave and Yesterday. While nearly 30 channel come from C4, BBC, FIVE, S4C and ITV.

While we are suggesting that the majority of channel are given to Virgin, Sky, Discovery and other Pay TV providers.

I amn't suggesting even 20 Irish channels on FTA DTT but I am suggesting that Irish channels are given first choice long before international competitors. Those 20 Irish channels would increase choice across all platforms including the current DTT which only has 5 channels.

Also we have to remember that all of the Big pay TV providers get money from Sky and UPC and some already provide advertising, why would they want to spend money Irish DTT when both Sky and UPC would look to reduce the amount that they pay for FTA DTT channels, remember Sky and UPC don't pay RTÉ, TV3 or TG4 to be on their networks unlike BBC, C4, Virgin, Sky, Viacom etc.

Elmo wrote: »

Keeping money in an economy that is in free fall is a secondary concern while giving people Free Pay TV such as Living is a primary concern?????

Its all irrelevant as these channels dont exist

If there are channels willing to be on the free platform why deny them access?

slegs wrote: »

Its all irrelevant as these channels dont exist

If there are channels willing to be on the free platform why deny them access?

Elmos way of thinking.


Legislate for a Irish only FTA DDT platform
6 months later
All the gombeens in Leinster House vote in favour.
6 Months later
Agree to set up 5 commercial channels with Irish content.
6 months later
"Somebody should have told us we need money to set up 5 Irish channels with Irish content."
10 years later
Still no FTA DTT in Ireland.

Elmo wrote: »

And if an Irish Broadcaster (New or Existing) wants in on DTT then they should have first preference.

No problem with them getting preference but these miniscule channels have no money to pay costs and I for one have no interest in any of their content bar maybe a music channel which isnt exactly the most creative form of TV channel.

We are still at testing phase of DTT in Ireland with no date set for rollout.
The UK was in the same state in the early summer of 1998. They launched in the summer of 1998. 12 years later we are still testing.
Why are we still in this position? There are too many gombeens in charge of key areas of this technology in this country.

slegs wrote: »

So you think PropertyTV or Women'sTV will be more popular as free channels than Virgin or Dave for example (that arent FTA on satellite). Not saying that these channels are any great shakes but I think you are deluded if you think your preference is the majority view.

I think you deluded in thinking that Pay operators want to be of FTA services. Dave and Virgin are not FTA on Sat because they don't pay for international rights. Perhaps Fiver or FiveUS would be a better option. You basically want to have FreeView and FreeSat.

Property TV could equal Sky Home and Travel or Home.
Women's TV is a bad name but it is just Living under another brand.
And Infinity or MiTV is just a music channel.

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

NB: extensive discussions of the proposals for retransmission of RTE in N Ireland in this new Ofcom consultation:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/600mhz_geographic/600condoc.pdf

Question do BBC 3, BBC 4, Cbeebies and CBBC tranismit on the same place but just appears on the EPG as separate channels?

What happens to S4C and TeleG on the NI EPG?

Or they could get rid of Partyland or 121 dating or Smile TV. (They sound like excellent channels)

They (UK document) still leave themselves with the get-out clause at the end, talking about uncertainties and saying that spillover will continue anyway.

lawhec wrote: »

The issue here is the flipside from that in the south, and carries a different political and public debate.

Politically its not a problem to have BBC on the Irish DTT.
Not political, just economical, too many commercial entities have too big a vested interest in keeping channels that should be classed as FTA channels (BBC1 and BBC2) being pay channels on their platforms. And a government minister, Ryan, too weak and stupid to to oppose them and stand his ground.

lawhec wrote: »

It would certainly be seen as a bit wasteful to have large areas of spillover, however I get the assumption from the document that at present anyone who wants to get RTÉ via analogue terrestrial can pretty much do already - this is obviously not the case for a substantial amount of people. A previous Ofcom commissioned report stated that an interleaved multiplex (MUX7) should prove possible for the three main transmitters - Limavady for E51, while E30 and E48 were identified for both Divis and Brougher Mountain with E30 being favoured for Divis (despite potential interference problems with Caldbeck) and E48 for Brougher Mountain. However this spectrum, like most proposed interleaved spectrum, would be subject to power and interference limits. How such spectrum could be used would depend on agreements on it being sold off like is being done in Britain, or a political agreement on a unique plan (similar to the broadcasting of TG4 from Divis) which would involve public/commercial compromise (a public broadcasting only plan I reckon would not get effective backing). To me for the former only Divis would appear to have any potential bidder for MUX7, as the coverage and audience for Limavady and Brougher Mountain IMO would be unviable at least at this present time. If RTÉ delivery via MUX7 could not be practical, small powered transmitters co-sited with the main multiplexes could be used to deliver RTÉ into reception shadow areas e.g. much of Belfast, Newcastle, Ballycastle etc. which would help avoid needless coverage duplication, spare spectrum could be more easily found (due to reduced powers and/or more directional aerials) and still help fulfil the MOU. The issue here is the flipside from that in the south, and carries a different political and public debate.

The report you quote (Multiplex in Northern Ireland – Interim Report Sept'08) is now out of date due to the changes in the Digital Dividend spectrum, now Ch 61-69 since that report was published. In early '09 an Arqiva report for Ofcom CH21 to CH60; Creation of Layers 7 and 8 in released Spectrum (released this week) investigated the possibility of a 7th and 8th Mux at 97 sites around the UK (80 main & 17 large relays) in the lower band of cleared spectrum - channels 31-37.

This part of the spectrum is planned as part of the UK's Digital Dividend but as they are the only European country to plan this part of the spectrum for mobile services the availability and cost of equipment may be prohibitive, so DTT may be the best option.

The channels initially selected for N Ireland are
BROUGHER MOUNTAIN 32 37
DIVIS 33 35
LIMAVADY 32 37
DERRY 31 34

Even though these channels have been initially assigned to these sites it does not take into account the requirements of neighbouring countries including Ireland. Ofcom are in the process of international co-ordination with the UK's neighbours and are expected to complete this in late 2010 or early 2011.

The availability of additional DTT Muxes in the interleaved spectrum has not been ruled out, these could be allocated in a similar way to the 7th Muxes in Manchester and Cardiff which allows the use of QPSK modulation (low-capacity, low-power, robust coverage DTT multiplex) carrying 3 or so channels.

Northern Ireland MOU

3.15 There are two agreements in place between the governments of the UK and the Republic of Ireland concerning the relay of Irish television services in Northern Ireland. The first is the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement of 10 April 1998. This committed the UK Government to exploring urgently the scope for achieving more widespread availability of Irish language television service TG4, in Northern Ireland. The second is the MOU on the reciprocal relay of television services, signed on 1 February 2010.

3.16 Both governments wrote to their respective spectrum regulators (us in the UK, the Commission for Communications Regulation in the Republic) in May 2009 asking that the spectrum negotiations between the two countries aim to identify suitable interleaved spectrum whose preferred use would be the relay of an additional low-capacity, low-power DTT multiplex in Northern Ireland capable of carrying the three services RTÉ One, RTÉ Two and TG4 on the three Northern Ireland main transmitters. The UK Government has indicated it is minded to direct us for this purpose. Suitable spectrum would need to be identified and awarded in line with any such direction.

3.17 There are some uncertainties in realising such a multiplex. The technical feasibility and the quality of available interleaved spectrum have both yet to be established. Because of these and other uncertainties, the option of carrying TG4 on the Digital 3&4 PSB multiplex in Northern Ireland after DSO in 2012 is being held open by DCMS. It is anticipated that RTÉ One, RTÉ Two and TG4 will, in any event, continue to be available in Northern Ireland after DSO by overspill from transmitters in the Republic. The extent of predicted coverage for this overspill has yet to be established.

Northern Ireland

4.13 Arqiva carried out a similar study in late 2007 looking into optimisation of the interleaved spectrum in Northern Ireland. This showed it was possible at that time to find channels for an additional DTT multiplex to be broadcast at each of the main stations in Northern Ireland. The multiplex would have reasonable coverage provided a robust transmission mode was used. However, this work predated more recent spectrum-planning work, including work on clearing the 800 MHz band. As mentioned above, we probably will not know the exact details of interleaved channels and locations that will be available for award until later in 2010. As mentioned in paragraphs 3.15-3.17, the Government has indicated it may direct us on the use of some such spectrum in Northern Ireland. Bearing this in mind, we are endeavouring to identify additional frequencies in the interleaved spectrum that might be suitable for other uses, such as local television.

Nations and regions

4.63 A multiplex operator interested in forming a sub-UK-wide multiplex or a multiplex covering Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales or an English region could use an appropriate portion of the 600 MHz band or aggregate lots of geographic interleaved spectrum. Alternatively, such a multiplex might be formed using 600 MHz spectrum supplemented where appropriate by geographic interleaved spectrum where this enhanced coverage because, for example, it was compatible with household aerials.

Northern Ireland

4.65 Our June 2008 consultation also noted it might be possible to optimise interleaved spectrum in Northern Ireland and so improve coverage there. However, as with Scotland, we will not know the exact details of the geographic interleaved spectrum available for award until the conclusion of the international negotiations on clearing the 800 MHz band. Also, we will have to find suitable spectrum in line with any direction by the Government to establish a multiplex to carry Irish television services from the three Northern Ireland main transmitters.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/600mhz_geographic/

Didn't get to the question above today. Ryan "understands" that the commerical negotiations are expected to have come to some sort of conclusion in 3/4 weeks.

if they didnt get to it today as an oral question, the written answer is usually posted on the oireachtas website i think... open to correction on it..

84. Deputy Liz McManus asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the position regarding the free to air BBC services here in view of statements (details supplied) following the publication of the Memorandum of Understanding between him and the UK Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10103/10]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): Following the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding with the UK on digital broadcasting on 1 February 2010, it was found that a reference in the joint press release in relation to facilitating the provision of BBC services in Ireland did not accord with the text of the Memorandum. Following agreement between the two administrations, the press release was amended. The text of the memorandum and the press release is available on my Department’s website www.dcenr.ie.

Apparently the Greens are planning a ministerial rotation plan. If only that useless waster could be rotated the hell out of DCENR.