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VRT Megathread - ALL VRT DISCUSSION IN HERE - Read First Post

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Comments

  • #332
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,468 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    snaps wrote: »
    holland has vrt? how comes cars are cheaper there?

    because the rates are different or the manufacturer price is different.

    The UK have VRT to, its just ~£50 though


  • #333
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    steve06 wrote: »
    SIMI don't set the OMSP of cars.

    "the motor industry" advises the Revenue of the OMSP. This would imply that SIMI are involved somewhere.


  • #334
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    JHMEG wrote: »
    "the motor industry" advises the Revenue of the OMSP. This would imply that SIMI are involved somewhere.
    No, the distributors advise on car prices.


  • #335
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    steve06 wrote: »
    No, the distributors advise on car prices.

    They're all members of SIMI, aren't they?


  • #336
    batman1
    Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭batman1


    The OMSP is given to the revenue by the motor industry. They don't get their OMSP from the craft butchers of Ireland, for example!! :rolleyes:

    The OMSP is a price which includes VRT and VAT. Therefore, it's no wonder people feel they are paying too much for importing cars when essentially they are paying a tax on a tax on a tax. Why not have the OMSP calculated without the VRT for imported cars?

    I have bought all my cars in the UK/NI and paid the VRT on all of them. On each one I saved a few grand and got a much higher spec for my money. I also travel to NI for servicing or repairs.

    I have no sympathy for motor dealers who spent millions building fancy forecourts and then charge through the nose for simple services or repairs, and blame the cost of running such showrooms on their high prices. If they offered a genuine, good customer service then they wouldn't need the big showrooms as customer loyalty would keep them in good business.

    I know a lady who was charged €210 to have a battery replaced in her car at a main dealer. That, to me, is just plain taking advantage of the less informed!


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  • #337
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    batman1 wrote: »
    The OMSP is a price which includes VRT and VAT. Therefore, it's no wonder people feel they are paying too much for importing cars when essentially they are paying a tax on a tax on a tax. Why not have the OMSP calculated without the VRT for imported cars?

    But that's the only fair way to do it - by charging VRT on the Irish OMSP rather than the UK purchase price, you ensure (as much as you can) that people are all paying the same amount of VRT, or that VRT is having a consistent effect on all prices.

    batman1 wrote: »
    I have bought all my cars in the UK/NI and paid the VRT on all of them. On each one I saved a few grand and got a much higher spec for my money. I also travel to NI for servicing or repairs.

    But this is a thread about whether VRT should be abandoned. You are evidence that an amnesty isn't needed as it's still possible to pay VRT on imported cars and still be better off than buying an ROI car (although these sums are under question fairly frequently).

    batman1 wrote: »
    I have no sympathy for motor dealers who spent millions building fancy forecourts and then charge through the nose for simple services or repairs, and blame the cost of running such showrooms on their high prices. If they offered a genuine, good customer service then they wouldn't need the big showrooms as customer loyalty would keep them in good business.

    This is more of a Distributor Standards issue rather than a VRT issue, and deserves it's own thread.

    batman1 wrote: »
    I know a lady who was charged €210 to have a battery replaced in her car at a main dealer. That, to me, is just plain taking advantage of the less informed!

    Again this isn't a VRT issue and should probably be discussed in a separate thread so as not to take this thread off-topic.


  • #338
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    JHMEG wrote: »
    They're all members of SIMI, aren't they?
    Yes but they don't set the vehicle prices, the distributors do! SIMI are nobody, they're a lobbying group who think they're more important than they are. Everyone knows that being a SIMI member doesn't increase your credibility as a garage these days.
    -Chris- wrote: »
    But that's the only fair way to do it - by charging VRT on the Irish OMSP rather than the UK purchase price, you ensure (as much as you can) that people are all paying the same amount of VRT, or that VRT is having a consistent effect on all prices.

    If you bought something from the states and they asked you to pay VAT on the market value rather than the purchase price would you feel hard done by?


  • #339
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Not if that was the way everyone was doing it.


  • #340
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Not if that was the way everyone was doing it.

    You know that it doesn't make it right though Chris. And as much as VRT is not illegal, we can all agree that it's immoral and there was a link posted here somewhere months ago with details of a European court case to be brought against Ireland regarding VRT. It was to do with the unfair system of being charged based on a price set by an unnamed source, the fact that you have to appeal AFTER you pay, and the crazy 24hour deadline for payment.

    If Ryan's group we're lobbying for these aspects to change, then he'd have had a lot more support!


  • #341
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    steve06 wrote: »
    we can all agree that it's immoral
    If VRT is immoral, then are taxes? I don't see any difference between VRT and VAT or income tax... they're unpleasant but necessary. They're not immoral.


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  • #342
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,468 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    JHMEG wrote: »
    If VRT is immoral, then are taxes? I don't see any difference between VRT and VAT or income tax... they're unpleasant but necessary. They're not immoral.

    agreed. I see nothing immoral about it. You are under no obligation to buy a new or import a car and therefor no obligation to ever pay it if you don't want.


  • #343
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    steve06 wrote: »
    You know that it doesn't make it right though Chris. And as much as VRT is not illegal, we can all agree that it's immoral and there was a link posted here somewhere months ago with details of a European court case to be brought against Ireland regarding VRT. It was to do with the unfair system of being charged based on a price set by an unnamed source, the fact that you have to appeal AFTER you pay, and the crazy 24hour deadline for payment.

    If Ryan's group we're lobbying for these aspects to change, then he'd have had a lot more support!

    I agree on 3 counts:
    1) the calculation of the OMSP needs to be more transparant, as well as needing to be updated more frequently.

    2) Appealing after you pay, while common (think of being clamped, parking tickets etc), is a gigantic pain in the hole. Especially when such a high proportion of appeals are deemed successful.

    3) 24 hours is too short, it should be moved to 7 days. I don't see how it would make any difference to the VRO, while making things considerably easier for the car owner.


    I do have a lot of support for VRT though, I feel it's a case of "better the devil you know".
    I fear the impact that removing or changing it would have.
    I fear the half-assed way that any changes would be implemented or communicated.
    I feel the fact that VRT is calculated on an "including VRT" value is the only fair way to calculate it.
    I think the VRT calculation must be based on an (accurate) ROI OMSP, rather than any other value, in order for the system to be fair.


  • #344
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    JHMEG wrote: »
    If VRT is immoral, then are taxes? I don't see any difference between VRT and VAT or income tax... they're unpleasant but necessary. They're not immoral.

    I didn't phrase it correctly, the implementation of the tax is immoral. i.e. the fact isn't not transparent etc.
    -Chris- wrote: »
    I do have a lot of support for VRT though, I feel it's a case of "better the devil you know".
    I fear the impact that removing or changing it would have.
    I agree here.
    -Chris- wrote: »
    I think the VRT calculation must be based on an (accurate) ROI OMSP, rather than any other value, in order for the system to be fair.
    To do this, you need to consider private sales and they don't do that. I had an argument a few months ago where they valued a car at 10k above market value and wouldn't budge, even when I supplied a list of cars for sale at a real price - they told me I'd have to appeal, I told them to fcuk off.


  • #345
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    steve06 wrote: »
    I didn't phrase it correctly, the implementation of the tax is immoral. i.e. the fact isn't not transparent etc.

    You mean the way the OMSP is calculated is not transparent? If that's what you mean then I wholeheartedly agree.


  • #346
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    JHMEG wrote: »
    You mean the way the OMSP is calculated is not transparent? If that's what you mean then I wholeheartedly agree.
    yea exactly, and the other rules regarding appeals and payment deadlines.


  • #347
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    snaps wrote: »
    holland has vrt? how comes cars are cheaper there?

    Are they? According to people on here living in Holland, cars are dearer.


  • #348
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Are they? According to people on here living in Holland, cars are dearer.

    Yup BPM is higher than VRT
    Road tax is more
    Cars cost more.
    Fuel costs more

    I was actually looking into importing a second hand RHD from the UK, found one on Dutch plates in London, was too much hassle as you need to sign over ownership in the post office with both owners present.

    In the end went with an overpriced Dutch car, Irelands even cheaper than Germany IMO.


  • #349
    Lando Griffin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,952 ✭✭✭Lando Griffin


    Lando's VRT Update Thread Merged with Main Thread - Chris


    Scores of anti-VRT protesters are to descend on the Revenue office in Bridgend this afternoon 28 May as the campaign against the controversial motor tax revs up, writes Coimhin Barr. The demonstration comes more than a week after Margaret Davern’s car was seized by customs officials who swooped on her Greencastle home after a six-hour standoff in Buncranna the day before. She is still trying to reclaim her 4x4. Anti VRT campaigner Ryan Stewart said “the revenue is specifically targeting Inishowen and we think this issue is not getting the national attention it deserves. People are stopping me on the street everyday telling us to keep up the good work and we intend to do that.” The protest starts at 1PM. (Inishowen Independent)

    http://www.inishowennews.com/NewsBrief.htm


    Disgust!


  • #350
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Her behaviour was disgusting, but at least she got caught.;)


  • #351
    KamiKazi
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭KamiKazi


    Lando Griffin wrote: »
    http://www.inishowennews.com/NewsBrief.htm


    Disgust!

    I can't disgust it, it's too discussing. :o


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  • #352
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Have these people no jobs to go to?


  • #353
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,263 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Have these people no jobs to go to?

    They want to work but if they did, the government would want them to pay income tax which is illegal and they would seize their jobs until they paid up.


  • #354
    eden_my_ass
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭eden_my_ass


    Seems a strange place to protest about the legality of tax law, do they realise the local vrt office doesn't actually set the rules which they don't want to follow :)

    Maybe they're just afraid of taking all their yellow regs down to the capital!


  • #355
    DonJose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭DonJose


    I bet there will be more people outside the chipper in Letterkenny than outside the revenue office in Bridgend :D

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/400-applied-to-wash-dishes-in-chip-shop-2198139.html


  • #356
    Atomic Pineapple
    Registered Users Posts: 18,272 ✭✭✭✭Atomic Pineapple


    It'll be a load of TwinCam's doing doughnuts in the car park! :D


  • #357
    Johnny Zimbabwe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭Johnny Zimbabwe


    draffodx wrote: »
    It'll be a load of TwinCam's doing doughnuts in the car park! :D
    I'd pay to see that, oh wait i think i have done :o


  • #358
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Ryan, I hope you're looking forward to your future tax assessment by the revenue for causing this trouble!

    Do these protesters not realise yet that if VRT goes, the tax will be taken from somewhere else - and it'll be worse then!


  • #359
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,067 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Her behaviour was disgusting

    Yea crying on National Television cause your lexus is being towed away for not paying vrt is not becoming a lady.
    http://www.u.tv/UTVMediaPlayer/Default.aspx?vidid=130405&chapid=106227&arti_id=f9f35891-5926-4563-b043-adbb666ac639

    At the same time, upsetting pregnant women because "it's your job" is not to be applauded either.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8693978.stm

    I wonder how many other women biffo and his cronies made cry this week?

    This isn't a war on VRT, it's a war on Wimmin!!


  • #360
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    If revenue had any brains they would hire a couple of car transporters and put checkpoints on all roads in and out of the town with the VRT office in it. Its a pretty good assumption that most of these protesters will drive in and are more then likely going to do it on a yellow reg.


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  • #361
    murraymarmalade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭murraymarmalade


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Her behaviour was disgusting, but at least she got caught.;)

    Is it because she drove a lexus and she was caught that makes you happy?

    The whiff of begrudgery and smugness from that post is overpowering.

    "Her behaviour":rolleyes:

    Well done to the protesters of inishowen i say.


This discussion has been closed.
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