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Eircom fibre for direct to exchange news?

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Comments

  • #32
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    What I don't want to see is exchange-launched VDSL being sold as "e-fibre" as it's not FTTC by any means, it's just an upgrade to ADSL really.

    Dont see the difference really, plenty of people on 12Mb eFibre from cabs, lots of DF lines would get more than that. The name already means 7-100Mb.


  • #33
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    What I don't want to see is exchange-launched VDSL being sold as "e-fibre" as it's not FTTC by any means, it's just an upgrade to ADSL really.

    If you're in the immediate vicinity of the exchange, you'll get a good speed, but a lot of homes around this area of Cork wouldn't benefit from this at all.

    Most are quite large 1940s/50s housing estates where all the phone line distribution is underground (i.e. no cabinets, just large breakout points in underground vaults where the lines are connected, I assume).

    Those developments are a good 1.5 to 3km from the exchange, some would be even further. I would expect that applies in many urban areas in places cabinets didn't exist. For example, most of Crown Alley's footprint in Dublin 1 and 7 would be like that. You're a fairly big distance of wiring from Crown Alley exchange if you're in Stoneybatter for example.

    In most of those cases, the VDSL service will be pretty pointless unless it's installed locally in cabinets.

    If they position the 'cabinet' in the exchange then I expect they can call it FTTC or e-fibre or whatever.

    It is no different than a remote cabinet in that respect.


  • #34
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    ED E wrote: »
    Dont see the difference really, plenty of people on 12Mb eFibre from cabs, lots of DF lines would get more than that. The name already means 7-100Mb.

    Well, if you were to just abandon the housing estates around here that didn't have e-fibre cabinets or PCP cabinets to exchange-launched VDSL, they'd mostly be about 3km+ from the exchange, rendering VDSL totally pointless. In fact, they'd be better off on ADSL2+

    Most of them are actually on UPC though (based on the WiFi router names I've seen on my mobile.)

    You're also not talking about the odd house here and there, these would be estates with maybe 200+ homes in some cases.

    If you're doing exchange launched VDSL, that's exactly what it is : VDSL. Marketing it as FTTC would be completely misleading as you're not bringing fibre into the local access network at all or moving people any closer to it. It's just enhanced DSL.

    I'm not saying don't launch it, I'm just saying that it shouldn't be marketed as "fibre", because it absolutely isn't any more so than ADSL2+ is.


  • #35
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Well, if you were to just abandon the housing estates around here that didn't have e-fibre cabinets or PCP cabinets to exchange-launched VDSL, they'd mostly be about 3km+ from the exchange, rendering VDSL totally pointless. In fact, they'd be better off on ADSL2+

    Most of them are actually on UPC though (based on the WiFi router names I've seen on my mobile.)

    You're also not talking about the odd house here and there, these would be estates with maybe 200+ homes in some cases.

    I doubt thats the plan at all. Getting DF going is important for all those business on main streets etc. Right now you have the centre of temple bar with no fibre despite being on Crown Alleys doorstep. Its this kind of fill in they want.

    Lines over 1.5KM are better of sticking to ADSL, VDSL probably wont even work for the majority of loops longer than that. Situations like that where there are estates will see new PCP cabs I suspect. I've already seen some apparently brand new cabs appear in the RMS(Rathmines) coverage area where as far as I can tell it was a UG cavity before. This is the logical step but it will require downtime for users and a bit of planning permission.


  • #36
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I'd say though if it's being launched it should be something like "Next Generation Broadband Plus" but not "E-fibre"

    The only reason I'm bringing this up is that I saw quite a lot of confusing marketing about these kinds of products in Belgium. They're limited to approximately 30Mbit/s (more like 18-20 in reality at best and the distances to exchanges in Brussels wouldn't generally be very long)


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  • #37
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    To be honest they shouldn't be calling it e-Fibre for any customers. It's a misleading name. Even worse over BT land but no need to emulate everything the UK does even when it's clearly wrong. VDSL in Germany is called VDSL.


  • #38
    Gonzo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Im almost 3km by line length to my exchange (currently getting around 9meg). Would I see any speed increase when the exchange is upgraded to VDSL2?

    Will the speeds be the same as E-Fibre with the same level of severe degrade in signal over short distances?

    Do users on DF Lines continue to use their current ADSL2+ modems or will new modems be needed to connect once the exchange is upgraded to VDSL2?


  • #39
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Gonzo wrote: »
    Im almost 3km by line length to my exchange (currently getting around 9meg). Would I see any speed increase when the exchange is upgraded to VDSL2?

    Will the speeds be the same as E-Fibre with the same level of severe degrade in signal over short distances?

    Do users on DF Lines continue to use their current ADSL2+ modems or will new modems be needed to connect once the exchange is upgraded to VDSL2?

    3km is too far, you won't get vdsl if you are direct fed.

    Shorter lines get a new socket and modem.


  • #40
    KerrAvon
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭KerrAvon


    What happens if you're about 3km and on ADSL1 when the exchange gets upgraded to VDSL?


  • #41
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    KerrAvon wrote: »
    What happens if you're about 3km and on ADSL1 when the exchange gets upgraded to VDSL?

    You stay on adsl1/2+


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  • #42
    sparky63
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭sparky63


    Fibre from the exchange is far more cost effective than re routing direct fed lines into a cabinet. Planning permission for three cabinets, cable connections, fibre equipment, power not to mention the cost of civils work. Then a mass of objections, the direct fed underground distribution point would be on a footpath, how many people will want 3 cabinets outside their premises. Being too far away from the exchange is no different from being too far away from a cabinet.
    Placing vdsl into cabinets brought huge increases in speed to many people, similarly efibre in the exchange will do the same. Without doubt huawei and alcatel have a lot of aces up their sleeves to increase the reach and increase the attainables over copper to levels everyone of us 2 years ago would have laughed at. Vectoring, lets not forget is still in its infancy of implementation but you can be sure not in its development and that's before pair bonding and phantom mode technology is utilised. One very promising thing that is happening in the background is that a lot of other operators with this provider and the regulatory body from what i read are sitting around the table and that shows a lot of confidence from a lot of institutions in the way things are progressing in this development.


  • #43
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    Exchange variant of the comreg rules state that for vdsl on the direct fed is limited to 2. xx Mhz where as the cabinets can run at 17.xx mhz so the exchange/direct fed runs will be terrible, this is to ensure not too much line noise is generated in the exchange and not causing impact to other LLUs in existence in each exchange, so the poster who states that eircom need to introduce more cabinets is correct this direct fed will turn out to be a joke in terms of speed and qual of service.


  • #44
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    They'll have to just cabinetise the direct fed lines eventually anyway.

    In areas with UPC and with the upcoming ESB fibre to home services, eircom will just be waving bye bye to a huge number of customers if they don't keep up.

    Exchange launched VDSL isn't really much of a solution. It'll be a slight improvement but nothing Spectacular.

    It's possibly very cheap too. The logical thing would be to upgrade existing ADSL2+ DSLAMs. For all we know some of the newer ones might even support VDSL with firmware updates or minor tweaks.

    It is possible that this will be an Alcatel rather than Huawei solution.

    They might be able to do it with a few new cards into existing experiment.

    I just don't think they should be allowed to sell it under the same name as FTTC products, particularly given the bandwidth limitations it'll have to cope with.


  • #45
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,476 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    They'll have to just cabinetise the direct fed lines eventually anyway.

    In areas with UPC and with the upcoming ESB fibre to home services, eircom will just be waving bye bye to a huge number of customers if they don't keep up.

    Exchange launched VDSL isn't really much of a solution. It'll be a slight improvement but nothing Spectacular.

    It's possibly very cheap too. The logical thing would be to upgrade existing ADSL2+ DSLAMs. For all we know some of the newer ones might even support VDSL with firmware updates or minor tweaks.

    It is possible that this will be an Alcatel rather than Huawei solution.

    They might be able to do it with a few new cards into existing experiment.

    I just don't think they should be allowed to sell it under the same name as FTTC products, particularly given the bandwidth limitations it'll have to cope with.

    Whatever about the ESB, Eircom won't be losing huge numbers to UPC. Anyone that wanted UPC will have it already in the limited areas it serves. Eircom get criticised a lot for not providing fibre to rural areas but UPC escape any criticism eventhough the have no presence at all in some counties. They are both commercial companies with a need to make money so neither will go where there is no profit.


  • #46
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    What I'm trying to say is I think it would be very misleading to sell it as equivalent to e fibre or as e fibre if it isn't.


  • #47
    timmydel1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭timmydel1


    Gonzo wrote: »
    Im almost 3km by line length to my exchange (currently getting around 9meg). Would I see any speed increase when the exchange is upgraded to VDSL2?

    Will the speeds be the same as E-Fibre with the same level of severe degrade in signal over short distances?

    Do users on DF Lines continue to use their current ADSL2+ modems or will new modems be needed to connect once the exchange is upgraded to VDSL2?

    You're getting around 9meg 3km from exchange!!! I am about 500m from my exchange and my line can barely hold 6meg, and I have constant sync cuts. 2 eircom engineers have checked my line and found no problem! Must be chicken wire running from my house to exchange:mad:


  • #48
    MBSnr
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    bk wrote: »
    From what I've heard, Eircom are using different and newer gear and tech for the direct feed lines and that it seems to be performing at the very least as good as ADSL2+ and in many cases better then ADSL2+ at distances greater then 2km.

    Have you heard any more news on this bk? Are there any reports of anyone on direct fed exchange lines getting VDSL with a line length of over 2Km?


  • #49
    mailsanchu
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭mailsanchu


    I think eircom is planning to do this from October 2014.


  • #50
    Nolars
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Nolars


    bk wrote: »
    From what I've heard, Eircom are using different and newer gear and tech for the direct feed lines and that it seems to be performing at the very least as good as ADSL2+ and in many cases better then ADSL2+ at distances greater then 2km.

    So it seems that it maybe cheaper and easier for Eircom to ignore ADSL2+ all together and instead go straight to VDSL2 at all exchanges.

    - Those living within 2km of the exchange get high speeds, particularly helpful for small businesses, community centers and schools in small towns and villages.

    - Those living more then 2km from the exchange will get ADSL2+ speeds or better, a potentially big welcome jump for these people who might be stuck on ADSL1 at the moment.

    - Probably cheaper for Eircom to just install, manage and maintain this new VDSL gear, then trying to move old ADSL2+ gear between exchanges.

    A win win for everyone.

    If im on 3mb ADSL1 would der be much of a bumb on adsl2+ line as my exchange is on the list but im 2 far for vdsl


  • #51
    fbradyirl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭fbradyirl


    @Nolars I am on 3MB adsl1, and my exchange was upgraded a couple of weeks back.

    It has made absolutely no difference to my speed, although I need to call Vodafone to get them to try increasing my profile speed.


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  • #52
    Nolars
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Nolars


    fbradyirl wrote: »
    @Nolars I am on 3MB adsl1, and my exchange was upgraded a couple of weeks back.

    It has made absolutely no difference to my speed, although I need to call Vodafone to get them to try increasing my profile speed.

    Well hopefully the new tech from the exchange will improve that as BK said above, also I dont think its coming in for another few month? not sure


  • #53
    Praetorian
    Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭Praetorian


    Sooner the better. My adsl is creaking, and unreliable.


  • #54
    guil
    Registered Users Posts: 10,475 ✭✭✭✭guil


    Vodafone previously told me I connected to a cabinet but after talking to an eircom engineer yesterday he says I'm definitely direct to the exchange.

    He checked it on his blackberry but he said this idea will probably not happen anytime soon if ever so not to get my hopes up. But sickening with vdsl cabinets so close to me.


  • #55
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    guil wrote: »
    Vodafone previously told me I connected to a cabinet but after talking to an eircom engineer yesterday he says I'm definitely direct to the exchange.

    He checked it on his blackberry but he said this idea will probably not happen anytime soon if ever so not to get my hopes up. But sickening with vdsl cabinets so close to me.

    Welcome to the Direct fed gang fun aint it ?????

    They have got the go ahead with the solution but it would be roughly mid or near the end of 2015 before they attempt to even test it im guessing . and if direct fed if you are more than 1400 meters to your exchange then you can just forget it altogether.


  • #56
    guil
    Registered Users Posts: 10,475 ✭✭✭✭guil


    How do you estimate the line length? I'm getting about 17mb at the moment.


  • #57
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    im on 17 MB also guessing your in and around 900-1100 meters , you can use online calculators google it via snr and line attenuation metrics found on the home page of your current modem/router.

    OR
    Usually Eircom have laid direct fed lines under the ground following the roads , so jump in car and reset mileage and drive to your exchange.


  • #58
    guil
    Registered Users Posts: 10,475 ✭✭✭✭guil


    By road it's about 800 metres. I'll have a look at the calculator when I get home.


  • #59
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    guil wrote: »
    By road it's about 800 metres. I'll have a look at the calculator when I get home.

    1km with 17mb adsl would make sense. That's gonna be 30Mb or more on VDSL conservatively.


  • #60
    dbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭dbit


    ED E wrote: »
    1km with 17mb adsl would make sense. That's gonna be 30Mb or more on VDSL conservatively.

    Uploading at around 7-8MB have seen some profiles upping at 13-15 on that distance too.


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  • #61
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,164 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Usually 30d/8u. Upstream jumps at 50 to 50d/15u and then 50d/20u, the rest above that all being 20Mb on the upstream.


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