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best month of the year to buy cattle?

  • 19-04-2014 4:25pm
    #1
    P_Cash
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭


    As the buying for 2014 comes to a close I wonder do i have the right strategy and more importantly the selection of stock to pick from in order to make it worth while.

    what ive been doing is buying in yearling bullocks/forward stores, selling them on on oct/Nov for the store farmer/finisher.

    god rest my father, but when i mentioned this strategy to him back in 2009 (which worked in the 80s/90s) his reply was there not up there . . meaning ill struggle to get a 1yr old bullock in March/Apr for a reasonably amount to sell him on and make a few bob.

    its not about quality, or value of an animal,
    its about supply and demand, if there not up there the prices go up.

    after a few years now of doing it, i have to say i thought of his words as i left the mart today. from 400 lots, about 50 were yearlings , qtr of them were bulls, and probably another 10 or 20 had 3 owners +.. . (dealer cattle etc. . u can see this as the bullock has only been held for 4/5 days since purchase)

    id say about 30 good forward store bullocks to pick from today,

    im talking only weights of 350/360. prices today were 1050 to 1150

    i didnt buy today, as im sticking with what i have.

    my avg weight is 340 and price is €888. but took 8 weeks/2 months to complile 14 bullocks. these would be lighter ones, mix of LMX CHX AAX


    Sitting here now thinking id make better money working a half day in McDonalds for 4 months than i would buying and selling as i am.


    so, ignoring the fact i dont have a slatted house, or a tractor fit to lift a round bale, whats the best month for buying cattle.

    maybe im an idiot, but i cant help think about the next buyer when im buying, constantly thinking, who am i selling to, what will the buyers want come Oct/Nov. .
    ill bring back a 515/535kg bullock, will i get 1150/1250 for him. even though my avg has always been around the 1100 mark, max 1150.

    I think starting to buy 1st Mar isnt helping prices, i need to get in earlier start feb 1st.


    or is there any other way to manage 30 acres, , :rolleyes:

    letting land off for meadow, nope. not doing it.
    letting the land nope.
    sheep? lol. ill have some crack fencing.


    my local mart (20 miles) has a huge catchment area, but god, alot of 20 month old cattle and upwards, i feel that a lot of the stock should have gone straight to factory.
    for instance. . . i saw my first 975 kg bullock today. .. imagine. . 975kgs .. . he sold for €1,600. . . . . . . thats the sort of sh-t i have to put up with. . . .
    its a great mart for dealers buying, a lot of strong 460kg cattle upwards and when u have ur contact in the factory, sher why not load up your twin lorry and off to the boarder.

    Grrrrrrrrrr. . . ;)
    need to calm down now, i have money in my pocket.


    i suppose the best reply i could get would be "dude u need to switch to a better mart"


Comments

  • #2
    P_Cash
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭P_Cash


    i apologise in advance for the length of that post.


  • #3
    The Cuban
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭The Cuban


    A bit of a dodgey game your at there. 14 bullocks on 20 acres is fine for the summer but what if you go down with TB in the mean time and your locked up and cant sell? What then?
    I think the cattle you are buying are too light and too pricey. You`d be better off buying heavy stores around the 450kg mark then finish them yourself on meal and grass by Sept/Oct. Keep an open mind to what to buy, I saw 460kg friesens bullocks sold for €850 last week, they would easily hit the 650kg mark by Oct on grass alone!! As for buying cattle, it all depends on the year, an early spring and the prices tend to be dear in March /April. Might be worth buying a half a dozen silage bales and feeding them to cattle for a few weeks in early feb. that way you can avoid the rush.


  • #4
    P_Cash
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭P_Cash


    whats the rules around TB, heard different stories. its 30 acres, always enough grass until Nov . . .

    but if a test is in july. and i go down whats the story?. .. i read about this in the past and didnt think I was open to trouble


  • #5
    The Cuban
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭The Cuban


    As far as I know if you go down with TB you then need 2 clear tests before you can sell your cattle you could be looking at been locked up for 4 months. But you can always send them to the factory if you have to but sending under finished cattle to the factory isnt going to pay much either.
    A quick look in Donedeal and heres the type of cattle that I`m on about
    http://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/19-british-frx-aax-and-chx-bullocks/6808035


  • #6
    P_Cash
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭P_Cash


    cheers Cuban,

    something to look in to . .

    good points mentioned. . .

    as i said, been only at it a few years, and i just havent nailed down a strategy yet. . .

    I think ill look at it this year, and have a plan for next spring.


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  • #7
    severeoversteer
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭severeoversteer


    go to a weanling mart
    buy 350 kg chx yearlings and squeeze them
    youll buy them for 800-900


  • #8
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    A lot depends on your land. If it can take cattle in February I be trying to buy then. I think the Cuban is right. Buy 450+kg Friesians, saw over 500kgs make less than 900 euro. With a bit of meal these friesians could hit 350kgs kill out in late October. Do not be afraid to feed a bit of meal to 2 or 3 in August or even July the sooner they are ready the more the profit. If half were moved before mid September you could cruise on with the other half until near Christmas.

    Haveing a bit of silage or straw and meal in early/mid February will allow you to avoid the rush, close a field in late September and put a bag of 18-6-12 to the acre on it and a 1/2 bag of Urea when ground temperatures exceed 6C. The other thing is if you could reseed 3-5 acre for early grass. All these thing reduce cost and get you a longer grazing season


  • #9
    Genghis Cant
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Genghis Cant


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    A lot depends on your land. If it can take cattle in February I be trying to buy then. I think the Cuban is right. Buy 450+kg Friesians, saw over 500kgs make less than 900 euro. With a bit of meal these friesians could hit 350kgs kill out in late October. Do not be afraid to feed a bit of meal to 2 or 3 in August or even July the sooner they are ready the more the profit. If half were moved before mid September you could cruise on with the other half until near Christmas.

    Haveing a bit of silage or straw and meal in early/mid February will allow you to avoid the rush, close a field in late September and put a bag of 18-6-12 to the acre on it and a 1/2 bag of Urea when ground temperatures exceed 6C. The other thing is if you could reseed 3-5 acre for early grass. All these thing reduce cost and get you a longer grazing season

    As usual Pudsey makes sense in this area, I'd wonder how heifers would fare out, if they could be got handy?
    I always found heifers do better where acreage is small. Would this be something you'd consider?


  • #10
    P_Cash
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭P_Cash


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    Haveing a bit of silage or straw and meal in early/mid February will allow you to avoid the rush, close a field in late September and put a bag of 18-6-12 to the acre on it and a 1/2 bag of Urea when ground temperatures exceed 6C. The other thing is if you could reseed 3-5 acre for early grass. All these thing reduce cost and get you a longer grazing season

    ya i think this is where ill be taking it, have fodder on hand, and get fert out early.

    can you spread those two together (same day) or does there need to be a gap of a few weeks.


  • #11
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    P_Cash wrote: »
    ya i think this is where ill be taking it, have fodder on hand, and get fert out early.

    can you spread those two together (same day) or does there need to be a gap of a few weeks.

    You be spreading the 18-6-12 in late September on a bare field so as that grass wpuld grow over the winter, the Urea in Feb/March to get grass going you need ground temperature to be above 6 degrees Celcius especially on old grass land for to get grass going,


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  • #12
    simx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭simx


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    A lot depends on your land. If it can take cattle in February I be trying to buy then. I think the Cuban is right. Buy 450+kg Friesians, saw over 500kgs make less than 900 euro. With a bit of meal these friesians could hit 350kgs kill out in late October. Do not be afraid to feed a bit of meal to 2 or 3 in August or even July the sooner they are ready the more the profit. If half were moved before mid September you could cruise on with the other half until near Christmas.

    Haveing a bit of silage or straw and meal in early/mid February will allow you to avoid the rush, close a field in late September and put a bag of 18-6-12 to the acre on it and a 1/2 bag of Urea when ground temperatures exceed 6C. The other thing is if you could reseed 3-5 acre for early grass. All these thing reduce cost and get you a longer grazing season

    seen fr blks not bad types now couple weeks ago, 6 in a bunch probably half and hald Os and Ps maybe, 594kg €830, in my eyes they were excellent value, a lot of lads wouldnt be seen having friesians in their fields


  • #13
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    simx wrote: »
    seen fr blks not bad types now couple weeks ago, 6 in a bunch probably half and hald Os and Ps maybe, 594kg €830, in my eyes they were excellent value, a lot of lads wouldnt be seen having friesians in their fields

    Put 160-170kgs on them before end of September that would make them 755kgs, killing 49% would be 370kgs assuming that it costs you 220 euro to finish(grass, transport, veteninary, slaughter + mart fees and ration) would be 1030 anything after 2.8/kg would be profit and they would have the weight as well. If they made a bit over 3.5/kg they would leave 250 euro.


  • #14
    simx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭simx


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    Put 160-170kgs on them before end of September that would make them 755kgs, killing 49% would be 370kgs assuming that it costs you 220 euro to finish(grass, transport, veteninary, slaughter + mart fees and ration) would be 1030 anything after 2.8/kg would be profit and they would have the weight as well. If they made a bit over 3.5/kg they would leave 250 euro.

    id rather have them and less money tied up than have fancy ch and lim to talk to the neighbours about


  • #15
    The Cuban
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭The Cuban


    Its a tricky game buying cattle for finishing, you have to know at what price friesens at €850 become dear and charlis or limos at €1100 are cheap. ;)


  • #16
    P_Cash
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭P_Cash


    maybe a stupid question,

    but i often do ask myself how come a 500kg+ bullock can be worth 1200+

    in the sense that

    whats in a bullock thats worth the 1200, . . 1200 worth of meat?

    maybe im missing something

    most none farmer people i talk with, are shocked that i buy in at 800-900, per head. . .never mind that most will sell for 1200. .

    i think most people think cattle, ya couple of hundred euro


  • #17
    simx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭simx


    P_Cash wrote: »
    maybe a stupid question,

    but i often do ask myself how come a 500kg+ bullock can be worth 1200+

    in the sense that

    whats in a bullock thats worth the 1200, . . 1200 worth of meat?

    maybe im missing something

    most none farmer people i talk with, are shocked that i buy in at 800-900, per head. . .never mind that most will sell for 1200. .

    i think most people think cattle, ya couple of hundred euro

    i suppose lads do buy on what grade they reckon they will be, what dead weight they will come into, in hope of a price rise around time theyll be finished, lots and lots of variables, most lads buying cattle 500kgs+ are finishers i reckon and are trying to work out what will the result cheque be for them etc.


  • #18
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    P_Cash wrote: »
    maybe a stupid question,

    but i often do ask myself how come a 500kg+ bullock can be worth 1200+

    in the sense that

    whats in a bullock thats worth the 1200, . . 1200 worth of meat?

    maybe im missing something

    most none farmer people i talk with, are shocked that i buy in at 800-900, per head. . .never mind that most will sell for 1200. .

    i think most people think cattle, ya couple of hundred euro


    I take it that it is a continental put 230kgs on him before late November weighing 730 he kill about 400 kgs however as he is there until late November he be eating 5+kgs for 6-8 weeks of ration and a bit of silage. Costs would be 300 euro+. so costing 1500 euro. If Friesian made 3.5/kg this lad would make 4.05/kg (under age R+) about 1620 euro, he be leaving 120 over costs. If over age he be 85 euro less, if a U= he make another 50 euro. If factory's penalizing on over 400kgs you have to sell him lighter

    Loads of lads get caught up on final price and efficiency. We are only traders so if you know your costs you should know what you can pay, how the animal preforms and have a guess at what he will make.


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