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Greens: Dublin needs a second unified bus station now

135

Comments

  • #62
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    bikeman1 wrote: »
    Ah yes, I know where you are talking about now, that is beside the Jervis luas stop on UPPER Abbey St. The Middle Abbey St bit was confusing me. It is directly across from the M&S unloading area.

    Quite a tight area in there, but when you see how tight the Galway one is, then it might work. Also you probably would have to change some of the road lay out in the area to make it easier for a coach to get in.

    Do CIE / Dublin Bus still own the land?

    To the best of my knowledge, yes, that land is owned by CIE Group.


  • #63
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    I think ringsend bus garage would be a great location only promblem where would the ringsend fleet go maybe keep it a small station half would become a bus station, keep half a bus garage and transfer the other half to donnybrook


  • #64
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    As far as Broadstone goes my concern would be about how much time buses would take to get in and out given that I understand the NCR near the Mater can be a bit of a nightmare, and about how segmentation would be done between services calling there and Busaras since interconnecting via LUAS requires a change. Maybe there's a plot of land somewhere that CIE could swap the Abbey Street site for?


  • #65
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    stehyl15 wrote: »
    I think ringsend bus garage would be a great location only promblem where would the ringsend fleet go maybe keep it a small station half would become a bus station, keep half a bus garage and transfer the other half to donnybrook

    I really wish people would stop suggesting closing existing bus depots. They all serve a purpose, and closing any one of them will create issues with dead running.

    Ringsend is too far away to act as a bus station.

    And even if it wasn't, would you care to explain how over fifty additional buses would even fit into Donnybrook?

    Closing existing bus depots is NOT the solution.


  • #66
    KD345
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭KD345


    The old Strand Street bus park would be great except I feel the area is no longer suitable for that use. The footfall around the Luas is too high to allow for coaches to be turning in safely every few minutes. The NTA also mentioned extending the length of trams in the next few years. Any extension to the platform may impact on access.

    There is an acre of land on Church Street between the Four Courts and Smithfield Luas stops. It is owned by the OPW who bought it in 1999 to build an office block. This may be a suitable location as its on the Luas line, is a 10 minute walk from O'Connell Street, beside the quays and has bus and tram links to both Heuston and Connolly station.


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  • #67
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    I am still advocating the Garden or Remembrance Idea!
    Another one is to demolish the Civic Offices on Wood Quay and have a bus terminus here - but make sure the DART Underground would go nearby and have a station as well
    Although demolish the monster of a building on hawkins street, and have that block between poolbeg st. tara st. hawkins and townsend st? as a depot


  • #68
    Colm R
    Registered Users Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Colm R


    Is Bus Aras not the best place for a bus station? Just that Bus Aras is currently not suitably built as a bus station.

    Would it be possible to build a raised station over a street for example, Amiens Street, from Bus Aras up as far as the old Connolly Station building. Whereby all the buses would go to a level over the street.

    If not there, is there any street that would be suitable for this type of set up.


  • #69
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    The only buses blocking the streets in Dublin are DB buses and not the private operators.

    We have a handful of private operators who I never see buses parked on street for hours like DB do.


  • #70
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The only buses blocking the streets in Dublin are DB buses and not the private operators.

    We have a handful of private operators who I never see buses parked on street for hours like DB do.

    And where are you seeing Dublin Bus vehicles parked "for hours" in Dublin City Centre?


  • #71
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Tbe fair it's both private and public operators.

    There are several problems though, as well as the number of services, namely
    - Services stopping at both Suffolk Street & Westmoreland Street & Westmoreland Street & Central Bank
    - Dwell time at city cener stop
    - Poor distribution of service between bus stops in some areas
    - Visiting tour buses that are not even scheduled services parking up for long periods
    - City tour buses being left out of services for long durations (Both DB and Dualway)
    - Illegally parked cars/taxis.


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  • #72
    smellmepower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 829 ✭✭✭smellmepower


    That ghost bus that parks every evening at the 13 bus stop on College Green is a massive pain in the arse,leads to chaos when a 40/49/13 arrive at the same time.Ridiculous that it's allowed to happen.


  • #73
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    The green party? Who are they?:D


  • #74
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭markpb


    bumper234 wrote: »
    The green party? Who are they?:D

    Why does it matter? Anyone can make a suggestion about improving public transport in Dublin.


  • #75
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,956 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    smellmepower wrote: »
    That ghost bus that parks every evening at the 13 bus stop on College Green is a massive pain in the arse,leads to chaos when a 40/49/13 arrive at the same time.Ridiculous that it's allowed to happen.

    That's a private operator's ghost bus and not the Dublin Bus tour.


  • #76
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Let's be honest about it - all of the city tour operators are as guilty as one another (and I include Dublin Bus) in their parking antics, and frankly as part of this, all of them should be given locations where they can ply their trade without interrupting the normal bus operations.


  • #77
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    I have no problem at all with our "beautiful Georgian squares" - as the OP quote puts it - being used as we see fit. The Georgians didn't stand there and admire them, they used them.
    lxflyer wrote: »
    Firstly (and again!) it's LXflyer!!

    :D


  • #78
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    lxflyer wrote: »
    And where are you seeing Dublin Bus vehicles parked "for hours" in Dublin City Centre?

    The street off Abby street Luas stop. Then DB have buses siting down at stops for up to an hour where the 33, 41 etc depart from. Then there is the side street off Westmorland street, can't think of the name.

    Busaras isn't the answer for private operators as at important times of the ay its full, inside and the sides as well as the road outside Connolly.


  • #79
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    ballooba wrote: »
    You do realise that Bus Aras is a listed building of architectural significance?

    And it's also not owned by CIE/BE and is already an occupied office block.


  • #80
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Both are too far from o connell street

    For heaven's sake. Dublin's a big city now. Not everyone is going to O'Connell St!

    How far is Victoria Bus Station from Oxford Circus? (answer: 2 miles :) )


  • #81
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    Ben D Bus wrote: »
    How far is Victoria Bus Station from Oxford Circus? (answer: 2 miles :) )

    It's a 4 minute no change journey on the tube though, so that's not a vald comparison.


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  • #82
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    TheBandicoot wrote: »
    It's a 4 minute no change journey on the tube though, so that's not a vald comparison.

    Broadstone will be a direct ~4min Luas trip to O'Connell Street.

    For your average passenger there'd would be no notable difference between the two trips.


  • #83
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    Coyingham Road would also be minutes from the centre via a luas
    I think Broadstone would have been an Ideal location if it were just that extra km or mile closer to the River
    I think a central station somewhere near the centre near either connolly pearse or tara st would be ideal.

    Demolish the Civic Offices on Wood Quay and build it there!


  • #84
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    To be clear: I'm trying not to dismiss any one site, just adding points of information / perspective. But it would seem that the Strand Street / Abbey Street site is not a goer with the Luas and increased footfall.

    It might be the case that more than one intercity bus is more desirable than one site. And when we're talking about what's desirable more than just some/all commuter / intercity bus users have to be taken into account.

    Prime city drop off points or a prime city centre bus station may be very desirable for some users but this has to be balanced with with everything from visual, noise and air pollution affects, to priority for local public transport, cycling and walking, to generally making the city a more attractive place to live, work and visit.

    On priority for local transport: London and other cities already give local transport higher priority in central areas, and we'll may have to do the same as BRT, cycling, and walking become more important in our transport mix. Walking and cycling already come first in (recent) policy for Dublin city centre.

    Re sites:

    A site behind Connelly or one at Broadstone could work well with strong on-street interventions. A bus station at Coyingham Road or one near the O2 would likely have better car pick up access than the other suggestions. Coyingham Road would look a lot better post Dart Underground but so would a site in the Docklands or at Connelly.

    With a good few intercity services already going to the airport first, that would give an edge to the eastern suggestions, given the Port Tunnel could minimize the need for use of city streets.
    petronius wrote: »
    Coyingham Road would also be minutes from the centre via a luas

    It's at least 5 minutes from the Luas stop to start with and then 10 minutes plus to O'Connell Street.

    petronius wrote: »
    Demolish the Civic Offices on Wood Quay and build it there!

    Indeed, let's add needless millions to the project!


  • #85
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    The street off Abby street Luas stop. Then DB have buses siting down at stops for up to an hour where the 33, 41 etc depart from. Then there is the side street off Westmorland street, can't think of the name.

    Busaras isn't the answer for private operators as at important times of the ay its full, inside and the sides as well as the road outside Connolly.

    I think that you'll find that no buses are sitting there for "up to an hour" on either Marlborough Street or Fleet Street, or Abbey Street.

    They might be there for 10-15 minutes between journeys - that's called recovery time which is essential for maintaining reliability.

    All of those locations are dedicated bus stands designed for buses to wait at - in none of them are the buses blocking other services, which is most definitely the case with Nassau Street or Westmoreland Street.


  • #86
    stehyl15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    Id say you'd allot of buses waiting in between d'olier and westmorland street waiting before nitelink duty


  • #87
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    TheBandicoot wrote: »
    It's a 4 minute no change journey on the tube though, so that's not a vald comparison.

    You have to walk from Victoria Coach station to Victoria Tube. According to tfl it's a 12 minute walk (8 minutes plus another 4 to get to the Vicky Line platform). That walk is about the same as Connolly to the GPO!

    Somewhere like Connolly that's well connected to the public transport network is what matters, not how close it is to one particular destination.

    DART, suburban rail, Luas and numerous bus routes are served from Connolly. These offer direct links to the north city centre (luas), south city centre (several bus routes since Network Direct), Heuston (luas), the airport (747).

    Dublin is big enough that no one location will be perfect for all onward journeys.


  • #88
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    While I don't doubt that all current DB depots are needed at this point in time, one would hope that developments like BX-D, rollout of LEAP and increasing NTA control over route planning will mean more DB services routing around rather than through the city centre as complementary rather than competitive modes. This may require additional suburban depots but may also free up one or more city centre sites.


  • #89
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    stehyl15 wrote: »
    I know there would a hole lots of objections too this but if we were really desprate we could always bulldoze merrion square or st.stephens green and turn it into a bus station sure busaras was built at the expence of some lovely georgian houses

    Crazy. And no busaras was not built at the expense of georgian houses.


  • #90
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Ben D Bus wrote: »
    Somewhere like Connolly that's well connected to the public transport network is what matters, not how close it is to one particular destination.

    One or two people have said the same, but O'Connell St isn't just another destination!

    Dublin Bus is by far the primary mode of public transport in Dublin and O'Connell St is pretty much the unofficial hub of DB, with pretty much every single DB route passing through or past it.

    And that is ignoring the fact that it is the third busiest shopping street in Ireland with the second busiest shopping street running off it!

    The reality is many if not most people who get intercity bus services, complete their journey by Dublin Bus operating from O'Connell St.


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  • #91
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,541 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I don't think that the issue is primarily setting down passengers, which can be done relatively quickly near OCS without causing major obstructions, before the coach moves on to the Airport or a bus station.

    The problem is more the picking up and where that is done, and the complete lack of organisation, proper segregation, facilities and safe locations.


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