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How to be a politician ?

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Treat the Irish electorate like immature idiots and they'll continue to vote like immature idiots. I'm not in a well healed constituency, Bertie was the cock with a walk here for years.

    The electorate get the candidates and the TDs they deserve, and hence the government. I don't think its a uniquely Irish thing though, but despite the fact that around a fifth to a quarter of the population live in a large metropolitan area (Dublin) our political mentalities are stuck in the old rural 1950s quagmire.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Denerick wrote: »
    The electorate get the candidates and the TDs they deserve, and hence the government. I don't think its a uniquely Irish thing though, but despite the fact that around a fifth to a quarter of the population live in a large metropolitan area (Dublin) our political mentalities are stuck in the old rural 1950s quagmire.

    Maybe, in light of the advice here to 'play the game' the candidates get the electorate they deserve, or expect.

    People on these boards are constantly crying out for change, wondering where to cast their vote amongst politicians that are 'all the same'. All I'm saying is, if you're going to enter politics be different.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    Denerick wrote: »
    The electorate get the candidates and the TDs they deserve, and hence the government. I don't think its a uniquely Irish thing though, but despite the fact that around a fifth to a quarter of the population live in a large metropolitan area (Dublin) our political mentalities are stuck in the old rural 1950s quagmire.

    Have you forgotten the Gregory Deal ?- first and largest parish pump/local pork barrel project in Ireland

    And it was a long way from rural Ireland!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    OP without knowing anything more about you and Lockstep other than what you've posted in this thread, I'd vote for you.

    Now I know lockstep is decent and have agreed with many points on various threads but someone who is willing to misuse their position (e.g. to fix potholes) in order to play the game and get ahead may misuse their position in other ways when it comes to getting ahead again. don't play to the tune of a broken political system.

    In fairness, I very much doubt that Lockstep believes that the system he outlined is the way he thinks it should be. Rather, I think Lockstep has realized that success in parliamentary politics necessitates engaging with that system. If you don't, there will be many, many people ready to do so in your stead - and they will ultimately win the election over you.

    I think the idea of going independent is unworkable. Most of the independents we elect engage with gombeen politics even more so than the parties - think of the Healy-Raes and Lowry. At the end of the day, an intelligent candidate with a national focus has very little chance of getting elected, no matter what their party colours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    In fairness, I very much doubt that Lockstep believes that the system he outlined is the way he thinks it should be. Rather, I think Lockstep has realized that success in parliamentary politics necessitates engaging with that system. If you don't, there will be many, many people ready to do so in your stead - and they will ultimately win the election over you.

    I think the idea of going independent is unworkable. Most of the independents we elect engage with gombeen politics even more so than the parties - think of the Healy-Raes and Lowry. At the end of the day, an intelligent candidate with a national focus has very little chance of getting elected, no matter what their party colours.

    So to summarise your point 'if you can't beat em, join em' or similarly 'if you don't join em, you won't beat em'. And that will change what? If your advice is that to beat the Healy-Raes of this country you need to be more parochial and gombeenish than they are then I only see things becoming worse. Politicians trying to out-**** each other rather than out-shine. There are very poor independent candidates, it doesn't make independent candidacy poor.

    I'm just saying rather than encourage her to play the game, you should be saying 'look this is the game and this is why it's wrong, and this is why you shouldn't be a typical politician'


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    So to summarise your point 'if you can't beat em, join em' or similarly 'if you don't join em, you won't beat em'. And that will change what?

    Nothing. The quote "'if you don't join em, you won't beat em" is right, especially because it's logically independent of your own actions. One simply cannot change the political system.
    I'm just saying rather than encourage her to play the game, you should be saying 'look this is the game and this is why it's wrong, and this is why you shouldn't be a typical politician'

    I agree - my first post on this thread was to that effect. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Nothing. The quote "'if you don't join em, you won't beat em" is right, especially because it's logically independent of your own actions. One simply cannot change the political system.

    The current government ran on a platform of political reform and you can make political changes even if it isn't easy but the electorate gave them a mandate to do it this time so no excuses accepted if they don't achieve it.

    Certainly possible in a 5 year time frame. This coalition will be judged on what they have achieved in that time in the area of political reform by me anyway.

    Everyone knows the state is bankrupt and nobody expects any miracles there but not tackling vested interests and not attempting to reform our politics to make it less likely we'll end up in this economic situation again is an unforgivable opportunity missed IMO if they don't achieve it.


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