Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Resignation of Ruairi Quinn

2»

Comments

  • #32
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Yes, that would be more or less my argument.

    Legislation facilitates growth (or to put it differently, not getting in the way of growth).

    " oversaw real growth" may have been a better choice.
    which part of the legislative and regulatory framework were his creations (bearing in mind where the regulatory framework got us in the decade after his term).

    No idea? I was 9 at the time & in another continent.... He wasn't on my radar.
    I'm not going to trawl Dáil archives.... You can if you wish.
    I'm sure there is something that help facilitate economic growth in there.


  • #33
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    He's the last person I want in Education:mad:.

    He'll apply SOPA to schools. I'd hate to see him get it but he's the one tipped for it.


  • #34
    Bits_n_Bobs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭Bits_n_Bobs


    Seemed to annoy the teachers unions so guessing he was at least attempting to reform the mess...


  • #35
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    Back to the actual topic -
    changing the Junior Cert (and indeed Leaving cert) required buy in by the stakeholders, the schools, the teachers, the parents, the students and the dept.
    Rather than a Quinn edict bulldozed through.
    -
    what do students learn from Minister Quinn - well he broke his promise, he lied in signing the USI pledge!
    -
    Under his watch the reputation for Ireland as a destination for learning english has suffered due to lack of regulation
    -
    The withdrawal of support for Protestant ethos schools who were fee paying is an attack on the protestant minority in the 26 counties.
    -
    His measures to force Teachers training colleges to merge and in the case of the CICE(Church of Ireland Training College) sunder its relationship with TCD by joining SPCD as part of his crusade against religious affiliated institutions and a de facto take over of them (by making them surrogate to secular institutions) to remove their ethos as much as possible
    -
    The Dept and minister should be neutral when it comes to religious affiliated schooling or non-religious affiliated schooling rather than the minister and dept being biased in favour of non-religious schooling.


  • #36
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    petronius wrote: »
    -
    The Dept and minister should be neutral when it comes to religious affiliated schooling or non-religious affiliated schooling rather than the minister and dept being biased in favour of non-religious schooling.

    That's another way of saying "The Minister should retain the status quo" :confused: Neutrality in terms of that issue means a secular public school system. Unfortunately progress towards that is very slow, and is probably going to be even slower now, so I'll probably end up having to baptise my child whenever I have one, so that they might get into the local public school. Outstanding.


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    TINA1984
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭TINA1984


    He took the brave decision of eliminating post graduate maintenance grants. Don't have rich parents or have a part time job while doing a Masters? tough.


  • #38
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,790 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Godge wrote: »
    no that is a bill to eliminate discrimination, required by EU law and therefore not part of anything Quinn decided.

    Well thats completely untrue. The EU commission upheld section 37 in 2008 so its completely untrue to say the EU forced this on Quinn. This was a Labour manifesto issue pushed by Quinn.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #39
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    petronius wrote: »
    Back to the actual topic -
    what do students learn from Minister Quinn - well he broke his promise, he lied in signing the USI pledge!



    I would have mentioned this, but you beat me to it. I actually don't like the idea of "free" college, but I also hate statesmen who make promises when they blatantly know they can not / will not keep them. Of course, I also think it's highly foolish to believe anything such people taut.


  • #40
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    Manach wrote: »
    The recent bill coming before cabinet that undermines the ability of schools to uphold their ability to keep there religious ethos.
    So that's an example of something that hasn't been done, and may never be done.


  • #41
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I know facts never sway you but the last PISA results on literacy showed Ireland pretty much top in Europe for 15 year olds.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    irishdude11
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭irishdude11


    Well we might as well forget about reforming the education system now. If someone like Quinn who went up against all the vested interests couldn't get the job done what chance have we got of the next guy getting anything done...we are going to end up with some typical Irish thick politician who will not stick his neck out on anything that could cost him votes.

    At least Quinn tried to get the Catholic Church to f*** off out of the education system, reduce the ridiculous amount of time wasted on Irish and Religion, etc...that he didn't succeed shows how powerful the vested interests are.

    I do think it was very bad form lying about the fees issue before the election, he should've just been honest or made no comment. I was actually affected by that decision. But I have to say he is one of the very few politicians in one of the big parties who has no time for the special interests groups holding the country back, and he had the courage to go up against them while taking serious flack.


  • #43
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    irishdude11 wrote: »
    I do think it was very bad form lying about the fees issue before the election, he should've just been honest or made no comment. I was actually affected by that decision. But I have to say he is one of the very few politicians in one of the big parties who has no time for the special interests groups holding the country back, and he had the courage to go up against them while taking serious flack.

    You'd have to wonder why any politician or party calling themselves socialist would think that a subsidy to the rich paid for by the taxes of the poor is a good thing. Those who benefit from free/low fees are overwhelmingly from the better off sector of society. I'm no lefty by any means but it really grates with me how it is taken for granted that the children of the privileged professional classes in this country will themselves enter that class as if by birthright.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #44
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    irishdude11 wrote: »
    Well we might as well forget about reforming the education system now. If someone like Quinn who went up against all the vested interests couldn't get the job done what chance have we got of the next guy getting anything done...we are going to end up with some typical Irish thick politician who will not stick his neck out on anything that could cost him votes.

    At least Quinn tried to get the Catholic Church to f*** off out of the education system, reduce the ridiculous amount of time wasted on Irish and Religion, etc...that he didn't succeed shows how powerful the vested interests are.

    I do think it was very bad form lying about the fees issue before the election, he should've just been honest or made no comment. I was actually affected by that decision. But I have to say he is one of the very few politicians in one of the big parties who has no time for the special interests groups holding the country back, and he had the courage to go up against them while taking serious flack.

    but he didn't go up against them
    he waffled and did very little
    in fact, he has made things harder for schools.
    he increased the amount of paperwork and bureaucracy by at least 200%, which for small schools with a teaching principal makes things very difficult

    in the likes of education you cannot 'take on' various groups. that is not the way schools are run. decisions are generally taken together by all the staff and work is done collaboratively.

    if Quinn really wanted to change education he would have got teachers and schools involved in the process, not dictate things from on high, as suggested by his advisors


  • #45
    spear_mint
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 ✭spear_mint


    he didnt kneel too often before the teacher lobby , hence the hate


  • #46
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    spear_mint wrote: »
    he didnt kneel too often before the teacher lobby , hence the hate

    he never met the teachers!
    he wouldn't even attend school openings.
    policy was dictated to all from on high

    eg schools received news in June, a week before they were to close about changes to the way support teachers would be allocated.
    1 week before the holidays!!!!

    do people realise the panic that caused in schools as principals frantically tried to figure out the implications for their school, staff numbers and the kids who rely on these support teachers - learning support and resource.


  • #47
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    nice_guy80 wrote: »

    eg schools received news in June, a week before they were to close about changes to the way support teachers would be allocated.
    1 week before the holidays!!!!

    do people realise the panic that caused in schools as principals frantically tried to figure out the implications for their school, staff numbers and the kids who rely on these support teachers - learning support and resource.

    9 weeks to re-jig staffing assignments seems OK for an organisation to manage?

    There is always a level of dictat from the man in charge..... Not everything necessitates buy-in from all levels.

    Workplaces aren't democracies or soviets.


  • #48
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    comongethappy wrote: »
    9 weeks to re-jig staffing assignments seems OK for an organisation to manage?

    There is always a level of dictat from the man in charge..... Not everything necessitates buy-in from all levels.

    Workplaces aren't democracies or soviets.

    er, principals go on holidays too.

    its not just a case of rejigging staffing within the school
    some people will lose their jobs, and won't know about it until the school looks at all the fine print
    and then shared jobs have to be looked at with other schools


  • #49
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    er, principals go on holidays too.

    Indeed, lots & lots of holidays.
    its not just a case of rejigging staffing within the school
    some people will lose their jobs, and won't know about it until the school looks at all the fine print
    and then shared jobs have to be looked at with other schools

    My point is, every organisation will receive instructions, or orders, often radical & complex in scope.

    We just get on with it though, no strikes, no tantrums.
    When a CEO decides on a change, he doesn't need to consult with every staff member to gauge how they feel.

    In the case of Quinn, no matter what reform, the teachers were against it anyway.
    So why bother trying to placate the already hostile?

    Waste of time appeasing the unappeasable


  • #50
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Indeed, lots & lots of holidays.



    My point is, every organisation will receive instructions, or orders, often radical & complex in scope.

    We just get on with it though, no strikes, no tantrums.
    When a CEO decides on a change, he doesn't need to consult with every staff member to gauge how they feel.

    In the case of Quinn, no matter what reform, the teachers were against it anyway.
    So why bother trying to placate the already hostile?

    Waste of time appeasing the unappeasable

    whats this 'we'? where do you work?
    you don't know what you are talking about. when have teachers been on strike?

    that is not the way schools are run
    they are not businesses
    the principal is a school leader, not a ceo
    decisions are usually taken collaboratively on a lot of issues.

    if you had ever worked in a school, you would know that children and staff are worn out by the time the holidays arrive.
    non teachers might begrudge them the holidays, but the children need the break as much as the staff.


  • #51
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    whats this 'we'? where do you work?
    you don't know what you are talking about. when have teachers been on strike?

    that is not the way schools are run
    they are not businesses
    the principal is a school leader, not a ceo
    decisions are usually taken collaboratively on a lot of issues.

    if you had ever worked in a school, you would know that children and staff are worn out by the time the holidays arrive.
    non teachers might begrudge them the holidays, but the children need the break as much as the staff.

    Didn't say "strike".... Though they b*tch about going on one often enough.

    I didn't compare the principle to a CEO, I was referring to the minister.

    D minus for English comprehension.


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Didn't say "strike".... Though they b*tch about going on one often enough.

    I didn't compare the principle to a CEO, I was referring to the minister.

    D minus for English comprehension.

    says the man who gets his principles mixed up with the principal of a school.

    you still haven't said what you work at?


  • #53
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    comongethappy wrote: »

    In the case of Quinn, no matter what reform, the teachers were against it anyway.
    So why bother trying to placate the already hostile?

    Waste of time appeasing the unappeasable

    The body which coordinates curricular reform in Ireland is called the NCCA. Quinn has rejected most of the NCCAs advice regarding the new junior cycle. Quinn was an architect and he decided he knows more than a body that exist to develop curricular reform. It reminds me very much of Bertie and the ESRI incident however there has not been a whole pile about it in the national media. Teachers were not against reform the vast majority are in favour of reform by the way.


  • #54
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Totally agree with above. From a teachers perspective the teaching profession is dead. Part time job at best for anyone crazy enough to enter into it.
    Pension scheme is changed based on career average which is pathetic considering most teachers won't secure any type of full time untill they are in their late thirties.
    Of course teachers are against quin because he had utter contempt for teachers...

    Someone saying he tried to sort out religious involvement!! By doing what exactly? Oh yes I forgot ...he put a survey on the net.

    And let us not forget he sorted out the school uniform issue! By doing what...oh yes, a survey...this time the schools had to send it out at a time when there is no money for photocopying paper in some schools! Anyone know what happened that survey?

    And let us not forget the new junior cert. Teachers up and down the country try to decipher a curriculum based solely on buzzwords borrowed from a failed uk system (50% of teachers drop out in year 1).

    All style and no substance but hey he has damm fine advisors (2 of them connected to INM , what a coincidence)....spin spin spin.

    Oh yes he sorted out the evil fee paying schools too to appease the labour social justice vote...but hey ..no problems with being in a fee charging school and sending his own kids through it too. Champagne socialism more like.

    So what has he done? Really , what had he actually done?


Advertisement