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Resignation of Ruairi Quinn

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    #2
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Good riddance.


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    #3
    Un Croissant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭Un Croissant


    He claims its to let the new labour team get to work, presumably thinking that cleaning out the old guard will help keep Labour alive. Don't know how well that will work with Burton at the head.


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    #4
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #5
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I agree with a lot of the above but you would have to question how much progress he made on these issues. Has the amount of Irish and religion in schools actually dropped? Has he embraced a primary curriculum that acknowledges that there are different teaching and learning methods appropriate to different subjects and to different children? It still seems that the latest fashion is the latest curriculum. How many schools have seen a change in patronage?

    What is needed now is a Minister who will drive forward these changes. Not one who will kowtow to special interests to win the election.


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    #6
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    His idealogical driven policies meant he was too given to follow whatever leftish lobby group shrieked the loudest with his very muted response to the paring away of tax-breaks that did curtailed people seeking private education.


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    #7
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Manach wrote: »
    His idealogical driven policies meant he was too given to follow whatever leftish lobby group shrieked the loudest with his very muted response to the paring away of tax-breaks that did curtailed people seeking private education.

    What ideological change has been implemented on his watch?


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    #8
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    comongethappy wrote: »
    What ideological change has been implemented on his watch?
    ... as per the paeans of praise being lavish on him being such a Anti-Catholic Church crusader earlier on in the thread.


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    #9
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #10
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Manach wrote: »
    ... as per the paeans of praise being lavish on him being such a Anti-Catholic Church crusader earlier on in the thread.

    Again, what has changed?

    Not ideals, concrete actual change.

    Thanks.


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    #11
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭touts


    He's just jumping before the Dear Leaderess comes in and purges all those who she believes stood in her way of advancement over the past 20 years. You know the standard sort of thing in a socialist succession fight.


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    #12
    Inspector Coptoor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    Hopefully now that car crash that is the JCSA (new Junior Cert) can be scrapped, or at least severely rowed back on.

    He was a minister of insults, bluster & rail roading.

    Good riddance


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    #13
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #14
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Not ideals, concrete actual change.
    The recent bill coming before cabinet that undermines the ability of schools to uphold their ability to keep there religious ethos.


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    #15
    brooke 2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    touts wrote: »
    He's just jumping before the Dear Leaderess comes in and purges all those who she believes stood in her way of advancement over the past 20 years. You know the standard sort of thing in a socialist succession fight.

    Well, he did say that he was resigning sooner than he might have liked. He did
    not want to wait for the ignominy of being pushed.


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    #16
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭touts


    Godge wrote: »
    What is needed now is a Minister who will drive forward these changes. Not one who will kowtow to special interests to win the election.

    Quinn talked a good talk but he didn't have the resources to do what he wanted. It's all well and good to talk about taking over all the schools from the church but no one was going to give him the money to do that. It's fine to talk about reforming the junior cert and bring in real life skills but where was the money for the equipment, books and training to make all that happen (I heard of one in service for English where the trainer was telling a group of teachers that they should introduce a radio show where students would take turns doing things like presenting the show live, producing it from the booth outside pre-recording and editing segments etc. When one teacher stuck up her hand and said they didn't have a radio station in her school his answer was just ask the Board of Management to build one).

    Whoever comes in is going to face exactly the same budget restrictions as Quinn did.


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    #17
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Manach wrote: »
    The recent bill coming before cabinet that undermines the ability of schools to uphold their ability to keep there religious ethos.

    Is that the bill where schools can't sack teachers for being gay or un-wed?


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    #18
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Manach wrote: »
    The recent bill coming before cabinet that undermines the ability of schools to uphold their ability to keep there religious ethos.

    Its merely a recommendation, not a bill. Religious ethics will remain in schools for the forseeable future.


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    #19
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Manach wrote: »
    The recent bill coming before cabinet that undermines the ability of schools to uphold their ability to keep there religious ethos.

    no that is a bill to eliminate discrimination, required by EU law and therefore not part of anything Quinn decided.


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    #20
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    So the former Minister actually did nothing to liberalise the system?


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    #21
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    Godge wrote: »
    What is needed now is a Minister who will drive forward these changes. Not one who will kowtow to special interests to win the election.

    Unfortunately it will be Sean Sherlock so that's out the window.


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    #22
    petronius
    Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    ah yes Ruairi "the liar" Quinn, new full well when he was signing the USI pledge that he was telling pork pies just to get elected.
    Hopefully we get a more moderate and sensible minister of education who can bring together all elements of the education system, and not pursing a narrow minded secular agenda Quinn did - protestant(Church of Ireland) ethos schools suffered with funding reduced by his measures forcing them to join the state system and lose their independence and dilute their ethos.


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    #23
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    petronius wrote: »
    Hopefully we get a more moderate and sensible minister of education who can bring together all elements of the education system, and not pursing a narrow minded secular agenda Quinn did - protestant(Church of Ireland) ethos schools suffered with funding reduced by his measures forcing them to join the state system and lose their independence and dilute their ethos.

    At some point.... somehow.... the Irish are going to have to come clean on whether they want to live in an actual republic or not.

    A real republic would have municipal schools, free of religion interference.... working along side religious schools, for those who chose to have a religious education.

    Quinn didn't change the current anti-republican status-quo one bit.


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    #24
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Orion wrote: »
    Unfortunately it will be Sean Sherlock so that's out the window.

    He's the last person I want in Education:mad:.


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    #25
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,469 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Not withstanding the past three years, where going by the above comments he talked a good game but didnt achieve all that much, what exactly is this guys legacy?

    He has been a senior government 'presence' for close maybe 25 or 30 years.

    What has he achieved of note?

    What did the public get from Ruairi Quinn that warrants the small fortune it costs the taxpayer to cover his expenses and salary as a minister, and pension thereafter?

    (please dont see this as a cynical question: I am genuinely asking).


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    #26
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    The man is 68 - let him retire , and bring employment to a younger version.

    Anyone mention yet how many pensions he will have / annual entitlements


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    #27
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,469 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    allthedoyles wrote: »
    The man is 68 - let him retire , and bring employment to a younger version.

    Anyone mention yet how many pensions he will have / annual entitlements


    A lot.

    Academic discussing (whingeing about) it, as he will get the money and not care what anyone thinks, as they all do.

    To be fair, anyone who has worked in politics until 68 years old has put in a lot of hours.


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    #28
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Not withstanding the past three years, where going by the above comments he talked a good game but didnt achieve all that much, what exactly is this guys legacy?

    He has been a senior government 'presence' for close maybe 25 or 30 years.

    What has he achieved of note?

    What did the public get from Ruairi Quinn that warrants the small fortune it costs the taxpayer to cover his expenses and salary as a minister, and pension thereafter?

    (please dont see this as a cynical question: I am genuinely asking).

    He was a very competent minister of finance.
    He brought real growth, rather than the deficit busting debt inflated growth from FF


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    #29
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,469 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    comongethappy wrote: »
    He was a very competent minister of finance.
    He brought real growth, rather than the deficit busting debt inflated growth from FF

    The only government minister that ever brought 'real growth' was the one who set up the IDA, and even that was probably a Civil Servants initiative.

    'Real' growth is something that private industry creates, not governments.......taking credit for it is another matter altogether.


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    #30
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    'Real' growth is something that private industry creates, not governments.......taking credit for it is another matter altogether.

    Okay.... So creating the legislative & regulatory framework to allow prosperity to grow is done by who?

    By your logic, no minister of finance created anything.... anywhere....ever.


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    #31
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,469 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Okay.... So creating the legislative & regulatory framework to allow prosperity to grow is done by who?

    By your logic, no minister of finance created anything.... anywhere....ever.

    Yes, that would be more or less my argument.

    Legislation facilitates growth (or to put it differently, not getting in the way of growth).

    Which is quite different to creating growth. And what you yourself said was "he brought real growth".

    And if you want to make the argument that the economic growth in Ireland during the mid 1990s, when (i) we were emerging from a deep recession (ii) we were benefitting from a huge reduction in interests due to currency alignment with the EU (iii) our ttrade balance and employment levels were boosted by very heavy investment by MNCs such as Intel (iv) there was a peace dividend from the IRA ceasefire (linked to point iii) (v) hugely positive demographics and upskilling of the workforce.....and you want to make the argument that it was actually Ruairi Quinn who 'brought real growth' as opposed to any of these factors......

    Anyway, leaving aside the pedantics, which part of the legislative and regulatory framework were his creations (bearing in mind where the regulatory framework got us in the decade after his term).


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