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Celebrating opportunity lost?

  • 25-05-2010 11:17am
    #1
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭


    Just noticed in a few of the papers Minister Ryan celebrating the launch of the new Electric cars here with the ESB etc.

    They're saying it could build a new industry making software and controls for these cars, great stuff but is it just me that reads that as a major opportunity missed?
    Shouldn't we be trying to get these cars built here, nevermind their software, we have the technology and skills to build them, they're driven by electric motors, chassis are fabricated steel and the bodywork is GRP, there are several companies here that make these, wouldn't it be better to try to turn us into Detroit for the 21st century???

    Am I just thinking too big?


Comments

  • #2
    Lando Griffin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,952 ✭✭✭Lando Griffin


    Minister Ryan talking through his arse again.

    The only thing we can build are good quality affordable houses on a massive scale.


  • #3
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Lando Griffin wrote: »
    Minister Ryan talking through his arse again.

    The only thing we can build are good quality affordable houses on a massive scale.

    Poor quality unaffordable houses, I think.
    Just noticed in a few of the papers Minister Ryan celebrating the launch of the new Electric cars here with the ESB etc.

    They're saying it could build a new industry making software and controls for these cars, great stuff but is it just me that reads that as a major opportunity missed?
    Shouldn't we be trying to get these cars built here, nevermind their software, we have the technology and skills to build them, they're driven by electric motors, chassis are fabricated steel and the bodywork is GRP, there are several companies here that make these, wouldn't it be better to try to turn us into Detroit for the 21st century???

    Am I just thinking too big?

    You're talking about a very big project there - we don't currently have very much heavy industry of that type, we don't have any expertise in it, we don't have the necessary ancillary and supporting industries, we don't have the best transport connections...quite a long list of uncompetitive points, really, in an industry where we'd be up against a lot of very well-established players.

    Software and controls, on the other hand, we do have all the prerequisites for - the right contacts, the right current companies, expertise, ancillary companies, tax structures, and so on.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #4
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,457 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    bladespin wrote: »
    Just noticed in a few of the papers Minister Ryan celebrating the launch of the new Electric cars here with the ESB etc.

    They're saying it could build a new industry making software and controls for these cars, great stuff but is it just me that reads that as a major opportunity missed?
    Shouldn't we be trying to get these cars built here, nevermind their software, we have the technology and skills to build them, they're driven by electric motors, chassis are fabricated steel and the bodywork is GRP, there are several companies here that make these, wouldn't it be better to try to turn us into Detroit for the 21st century???

    Am I just thinking too big?

    Our labour costs are too high, and we don't have the infrastructure to support such an assembly line. All materials would have to be flown/shipped in, and the cars themselves then shipped out again.

    Detroit is pretty much a failed city, we shouldn't be trying to emulate them.


  • #5
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Poor quality unaffordable houses, I think.



    You're talking about a very big project there - we don't currently have very much heavy industry of that type, we don't have any expertise in it, we don't have the necessary ancillary and supporting industries, we don't have the best transport connections...quite a long list of uncompetitive points, really, in an industry where we'd be up against a lot of very well-established players.

    Software and controls, on the other hand, we do have all the prerequisites for - the right contacts, the right current companies, expertise, ancillary companies, tax structures, and so on.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


    Actually we do, just take a look at the sudden development that went into wind turbines when the new tarriffs were announced.

    This is a new industry, there is very little competition out there and so there's little ground to be made up.

    There's vast amounts of automotive experience in the UK that wopuld work here. Not that that matters a huge amount as theres aren't cars in the traditional sense.

    There are several companies here supplying parts to the motor industry in the UK, and I'm sure there are lots there ready to supply any here.

    If we solely stick to industries we're good at, that list will get ever shorter until we've lost manufacturing capability completely here, surely that's a blind alley approach. We've got to be thinking new.

    astrofool wrote: »
    Our labour costs are too high, and we don't have the infrastructure to support such an assembly line. All materials would have to be flown/shipped in, and the cars themselves then shipped out again.

    Detroit is pretty much a failed city, we shouldn't be trying to emulate them.

    Works ok in Japan.

    Detroit is a model, it's day has passed, but it did it's part for the US economy. Their failure has more to do with sitting on past glory than it's engineering.


  • #6
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    We probably should look into that....at the very least, manufacturing parts, or software, as you say.
    Think as big as you like OP...it's thinking like that that creates jobs at times like this. Detroit may not be a good exaplme to emulate, but it doesn't mean we couldn't try for manufacturing for the electronic side of these things. Years ago we had no facilities for pharmacuetical plants or software, and now look at us.
    Never say never!


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  • #7
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    dan_d wrote: »
    We probably should look into that....at the very least, manufacturing parts, or software, as you say.
    Think as big as you like OP...it's thinking like that that creates jobs at times like this. Detroit may not be a good exaplme to emulate, but it doesn't mean we couldn't try for manufacturing for the electronic side of these things. Years ago we had no facilities for pharmacuetical plants or software, and now look at us.
    Never say never!


    Finally someone positive, if a crazy Irishman can build a F1 gp winning car, then why not?

    Surely the government should be trying to put stuff like this together.


  • #8
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Well we do excel at putting each other down and general cynicism!!!!

    No, to be fair, everyone else HAS made valid points about why it mightn't work, looking at it from all sides. However as Scofflaw says we do have the facilities for software and controls and with some research there's no reason why we couldn't do it. There's enough buildings standing empty in the country that could be used and while it would cost money to set up, you've got to speculate to accumulate.

    In answer to your question, yes we should be looking at stuff like that. But it would be thinking outside the box, and last I checked, our politicians are not down with that sort of thing. However a private individual could also look into it....


  • #9
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    dan_d wrote: »
    In answer to your question, yes we should be looking at stuff like that. But it would be thinking outside the box, and last I checked, our politicians are not down with that sort of thing. However a private individual could also look into it....


    Yeah, that's the problem, the outlay and risk would be considerable, government backing would be the only way I could see it happening, unless there's a billionaire outthere with some imagination. :(


  • #10
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    bladespin wrote: »
    Actually we do, just take a look at the sudden development that went into wind turbines when the new tarriffs were announced.

    This is a new industry, there is very little competition out there and so there's little ground to be made up.

    There's vast amounts of automotive experience in the UK that wopuld work here. Not that that matters a huge amount as theres aren't cars in the traditional sense.

    There are several companies here supplying parts to the motor industry in the UK, and I'm sure there are lots there ready to supply any here.

    If we solely stick to industries we're good at, that list will get ever shorter until we've lost manufacturing capability completely here, surely that's a blind alley approach. We've got to be thinking new.

    I'm not sure this is a "new industry" - electric cars are, to most people, cars, and they'll expect them to be from the same manufacturers. Similarly, an electric car will need a chassis, wheels, brakes, windows, and so on - none of which seem to me to be substantially different from the requirements for a non-electric car.

    None of which is to disagree with your point that if we stick only with our existing industries we're in a blind alley. However, I think the case here is that the gap between our current capacity and this opportunity is too large to make the leap worthwhile - something that's rather confirmed than denied by the example you give of wind turbines. If we have had the gumption to get into that sector when we saw there was money to be made in it, even though it's hardly a traditional Irish industry, then it seems to me that the problem is not unwillingness to embrace new opportunities, but rather that this "opportunity" isn't one.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #11
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Anyone looking to start manufacturing on this scale in Ireland will run into several problems, such as:
    • Our high cost base
    • Our relative lack of experience in this field - certainly, we could (and should) bring in overseas experts for this
    • The large costs incurred in importing raw materials to our island, and exporting them again
    I think this could only work with government intervention, as any private investors would likely look to work with an established manufacturing hub, for example in Germany.

    We should focus on the softer stuff. The R&D labs, the software labs. Putting things together on a manufacturing line doesn't make much sense in Ireland.


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