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Can I be forced to work unpaid overtime?

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  • 02-07-2010 12:21pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi all.

    I am having a problem at work in relation to my annual leave.

    When I started this position, for example, I had to make 380 units per month. This increased to about 430 and I spoke to them and my other duties were reduced in order to facilitate the increase in work load.
    My work load has increased again in the last year to 500 units per month.

    I am just about managing but the issue is in my annual leave. I have two weeks off coming up and have basically been told that I must hit my target of 500 before I go on annual leave.
    I asked how I was supposed to do this, stating I didn't think it was possible.
    I was told that basically they don't care how it is met, it is my job to meet it and if that means working overtime then so be it. I wouldn't even mind if this "overtime" they speak of was paid, but it isn't.

    My contract states my working hours and also says "employees are expected to be flexible outside these hours if necessary".
    I can be flexible but my question is, do I have to do overtime if I'm not being paid for it?


Comments

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    #2
    wmpdd3
    Registered Users Posts: 9,624 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    No.

    The way they are asking you to work is similar to 'piece work' where you get paid for output as apposed to hours worked. Are you working alone? are others put under the same pressure?

    I would not do more than 5minutes after your shift, you are entitled to your holidays as a statuary right.

    They could make things difficult on you by moving / cancelling your hols but you have to get them in the end.


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    #3
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    What does your contract say, in reference to pieces per month having to be made?


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    #4
    shoegirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭shoegirl


    confusedalot wrote: »
    My contract states my working hours and also says "employees are expected to be flexible outside these hours if necessary".
    I can be flexible but my question is, do I have to do overtime if I'm not being paid for it?

    There is no law forcing employers to pay overtime. If your contract stipulates that you are expected to work reasonable amounts of overtime without pay then it is difficult to refuse without good reason.

    If you normally do get paid overtime then it would not be reasonable to suddenly demand you do it for free.


  • Options
    #5
    Fussgangerzone
    Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭Fussgangerzone


    Citizens Information
    Overtime

    Overtime is work done outside normal working hours. There is no statutory obligation on employers in Ireland to pay employees higher rates, for example, double time, for work completed in overtime. You must, however, receive at the very least your normal hourly rate of pay for overtime. Certain sectors of employment are covered by Employment Regulation Orders and Registered Employment Agreements which may have higher rates of pay for overtime.

    I've been in a similar situation before. Employers are riding roughshod over workers these days. It's all "If you want a job you'll do it". Fairly sure it's illegal though. You could get legal help, but sneaky employers will never demand unpaid overtime work in a recordable way, so it might be hard to prove.

    Likewise, if you haven't signed anything saying you can do 500 in your normal time, they don't have you snookered. Common sense dictates that 500 a month = 125 a week. If you have two weeks, that's 250 units.

    It sounds like you're working for dicks, and they probably won't like you standing up for yourself. If you have email contact with them, start communicating your misgivings by email, preferably an external email on your end, gmail or whatever, so you have a record of all communications.

    It sounds a bit like you're being bullied to me. Standing up for yourself might mean losing your job, but if you get record of everything, that might put you in a better position to stick up for yourself.

    This is all me thinking out loud, by the way, I'm no expert on labour law.


  • Options
    #6
    D.McC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭D.McC


    NO! As was already said by others.

    Employers love the term flexibility; it’s like a big stick they use to beat their staff into working more hours than they are willing to pay for. :mad:

    If your contact states hours of employment are between 08.00 and 18.00 then any thing after that is open to negotiation. In other words, your employer should ask you and if its necessary for the business, they should give you reasonable notice. What they don't have to do is pay you anything extra for this time, but they have to pay you.

    What I don’t understand from your post is the need to meet your target of 500 units before you go on hols. Is your pay related to the amount of units completed (piece work) or are you paid an hourly rate?

    Also, is there any mention of a defined target in your contract?


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  • Options
    #7
    shoegirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭shoegirl


    D.McC wrote: »
    If your contact states hours of employment are between 08.00 and 18.00 then any thing after that is open to negotiation. In other words, your employer should ask you and if its necessary for the business, they should give you reasonable notice. What they don't have to do is pay you anything extra for this time, but they have to pay you.

    They don't always, see here - http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/jobs-careers/legal-eagle-unpaid-overtime-1473557.html

    They may not have agreements as to overtime, which means it is open to negotiation (i.e. they can ask you but not force you to work overtime - but there is nothing to stop them penalising the worker who refuses). Also many employers write a requirement for "reasonable" unpaid overtime into their contracts - in this case they can force you to work it or penalise you for refusing to do it. However, if your contract states that overtime is occasionally required but paid, then yes they must pay you.


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    #8
    D.McC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭D.McC


    I’m afraid that article just confirms what I’ve already said.

    Overtime is just that….overtime – hours worked in excess of the minimum requirement. That is why some form of compensation is offered to the employee, should they choose to work the additional hours.

    The author of the article is quite clear on the ways which an employee can be paid for this extra time. There is however no mention of payment beyond what the employee would normally receive.

    Also, i have never been aware of any punishment been melted out to an employee for refusing overtime.

    Unless that is of course their employer see’s fit to victimise them, and bully them for either been unable or unwilling to work longer hours. :mad:


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