Opel Insignia 'thermal incident'

BillyBoy13 · 20-05-2014 11:39am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

they found an issue with a few cars, put their hands up and admitted they were wrong, recalled all the cars at a massive cost to themselves and looked after everybody who spent money with them and as a result, the media has torn their reputation to shreds, for being out straight and honest with their people.

Maybe this is the reason why Opel are reluctant to admit any faults?

Toyotafanboi · 20-05-2014 11:45am

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

Maybe this is the reason why Opel are reluctant to admit any faults?

well of course it is. that doesn't mean we should applaud them and encourage them for doing the wrong thing. a good judgement of a person is how they deal with a problem. the same can be said for a company.

BillyBoy13 · 20-05-2014 12:10pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

well of course it is. that doesn't mean we should applaud them and encourage them for doing the wrong thing. a good judgement of a person is how they deal with a problem. the same can be said for a company.

No I'm not saying that at all. I was more kinda getting at that even if they want to do the right thing they probably feel they cant. Its a sorry state when a company is looking at:

1) Do the right thing and lose your good name / profits go down.

2) Do the wrong thing and keep the good name.

Personally I wouldnt hold it against any company that goes for option 2, but saying that I would have a lot more respect for any company that would actually knowingly sacrifice profits/reputation for sake of doing the right thing.

dr.fuzzenstein · 20-05-2014 12:31pm

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Your missing the point by a country mile, if a product is correctly designed and manufactured there will be no need for a recall.

If the product is faulty then there will be need for a recall.

So the existence of a recall means you got a dodgy product, this is not a good thing.

Yes and this does happen all the time in the land where unicorns fly overhead and poop ice cream on those below and it's called cloud cuckoo land.

You might as well say "If we where all a little nicer to each other, there would be peace on Earth". Absolutely right, but sadly not going to happen any time soon.
Either you know something that the best car designers in the world don't know, or you are being a tad naive, I dare venture.

To accuse Toyota of all car makers of not designing a correct product is just stretching it a little.

But, deferring to your superior expertise, please name a car manufacturer that designs "correct" cars and have never had a recall.
And I don't mean a manufacturer that merely tries to ignore any defects and disown them.

Gazzmonkey · 20-05-2014 12:38pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yes and this does happen all the time in the land where unicorns fly overhead and poop ice cream on those below and it's called cloud cuckoo land.
You might as well say "If we where all a little nicer to each other, there would be peace on Earth". Absolutely right, but sadly not going to happen any time soon.
Either you know something that the best car designers in the world don't know, or you are being a tad naive, I dare venture.

To accuse Toyota of all car makers of not designing a correct product is just stretching it a little.

But, deferring to your superior expertise, please name a car manufacturer that designs "correct" cars and have never had a recall.
And I don't mean a manufacturer that merely tries to ignore any defects and disown them.

Sorry, I'm completely lost!!!

What is your problem exactly?

noelf · 20-05-2014 12:45pm

Y

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

No I'm not saying that at all. I was more kinda getting at that even if they want to do the right thing they probably feel they cant. Its a sorry state when a company is looking at:

1) Do the right thing and lose your good name / profits go down.

2) Do the wrong thing and keep the good name.

Personally I wouldnt hold it against any company that goes for option 2, but saying that I would have a lot more respect for any company that would actually knowingly sacrifice profits/reputation for sake of doing the right thing.

The only accident i have had in 40 years of driving was in a Opel due to a faulty brake servo rear wheels locked up spinning me into another car there was less than 20000 Miles on it . No recalls no good will gestures and as a result i have never bought another opel ..

Toyotafanboi · 20-05-2014 12:46pm

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Sorry, I'm completely lost!!!

What is your problem exactly?

he is telling you that there is absolutely no car manufacturer on the face of the earth has hasn't had to issue recalls/ or suffered from manufacturing defects at some point and to suggest that one has the potential to exist is very naive. so the best way to judge a good manufacturer is to observe how they handle a manufacturing defect situation.

he's saying your expectations are unrealistic.

Gazzmonkey · 20-05-2014 12:52pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

he is telling you that there is absolutely no car manufacturer on the face of the earth has hasn't had to issue recalls/ or suffered from manufacturing defects at some point and to suggest that one has the potential to exist is very naive. so the best way to judge a good manufacturer is to observe how they handle a manufacturing defect situation.

he's saying your expectations are unrealistic.

You'll have to show where I said that a car manufacturer has never had a product recall.

Toyotafanboi · 20-05-2014 12:55pm

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

You'll have to show where I said that a car manufacturer has never had a product recall.

it was implied in these posts. i'l say no more. you either have no great knowledge of the manufacturing process of a modern car or are borderline trolling.

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Your missing the point by a country mile, if a product is correctly designed and manufactured there will be no need for a recall.

If the product is faulty then there will be need for a recall.

So the existence of a recall means you got a dodgy product, this is not a good thing.

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

when a recall is needed but never happens, that is a bad thing.

But a recall is always to rectify a fault that shouldn't have happened so it's never a good thing.

Simple.

Gazzmonkey · 20-05-2014 1:10pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

it was implied in these posts. i'l say no more. you either have no great knowledge of the manufacturing process of a modern car or are borderline trolling.

Again, way off the mark.....

My original point was that recalls are nothing to be happy about.

I can't make it any simpler that that I'm afraid.

All the other points that you added in have nothing to do with me, it's entirely your misinterpretation therefore I can't comment.

thedonscork · 20-05-2014 1:11pm

Why only now is this being highlighted? There was a service action on this issue 2 years ago but no recall in the UK when the BBC highlighted it.

GM are also in trouble in the US for brushing safety issues into a swamp!

To be honest I wouldnt touch em. The German marques are all living off a fairytale reputation. Had a VW Passat, worst ever! Audi and BMW just as bad! The money pit part 2 starring tom hanks!

Toyotafanboi · 20-05-2014 1:17pm

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Again, way off the mark.....

My original point was that recalls are nothing to be happy about.

I can't make it any simpler that that I'm afraid.

All the other points that you added in have nothing to do with me, it's entirely your misinterpretation therefore I can't comment.

but recalls are to be happy about. it's when your car doesn't get recalled and goes up in flames that you're not happy.

i mean would you rather your bank manager phones you when he thinks your account PIN code has been compromised to sort out a new one, or would you rather call him when your account is empty, only for him to tell you he knew your card was skimmed last week and took no action.

gctest50 · 20-05-2014 1:20pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

To accuse Toyota of all car makers of not designing a correct product is just stretching it a little.

You're on a roll

- see attached pic

Gazzmonkey · 20-05-2014 1:21pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

but recalls are to be happy about. it's when your car doesn't get recalled and goes up in flames that you're not happy.

i mean would you rather your bank manager phones you when he thinks your account PIN code has been compromised to sort out a new one, or would you rather call him when your account is empty, only for him to tell you he knew your card was skimmed last week and took no action.

If a car needs a recall and the manufacturer recalls the car then yes, that is good but that wasn't my point at all.

Toyotafanboi · 20-05-2014 1:22pm

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

If a car needs a recall and the manufacturer recalls the car then yes, that is good but that wasn't my point at all.

then what is your point? i have a feeling we are about to go full circle.

davehedgehog · 20-05-2014 1:28pm

had similar issue with Insignia, 2010 eco flex. Power steerring went all of a sudden about 6 months ago. Fond a crack in the power steering line into the pump. Was leaking a lot of fluid but luckily no "thermal" incidents but I could easily see how the leaking fluid could ignite. I had read this was a common issue with the Insignia and maybe even a recall issue in the UK. Definitely not a recall here as i checked with dealer here in Dublin. They did give a goodwill discount on the parts which may lead some to assume that I might not have been the first person to complain about this fault.

Gazzmonkey · 20-05-2014 1:31pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

then what is your point? i have a feeling we are about to go full circle.

lol so do I,

Here's my opinion on the matter.....

If a car needs to be recalled and the manufacturer does recall it, then happy days.

However the fact that the car was even recalled in the first place is not good as it means the car has a flaw bad enough that warranted a recall but at least it gets fixed.

I cant see how my above logic has anything to do with anything that I was previously accused of.

Toyotafanboi · 20-05-2014 1:33pm

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

lol so do I,

Here's my opinion on the matter.....

If a car needs to be recalled and the manufacturer does recall it, then happy days.

However the fact that the car was even recalled in the first place is not good as it means the car has a flaw bad enough that warranted a recall but at least it gets fixed.

I cant see how my above logic has anything to do with anything that I was previously accused of.

i'm going for lunch :pac:

Frankie Lee · 20-05-2014 1:49pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMVkUgQR9NQ

dr.fuzzenstein · 20-05-2014 2:34pm

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

lol so do I,

Here's my opinion on the matter.....

If a car needs to be recalled and the manufacturer does recall it, then happy days.

However the fact that the car was even recalled in the first place is not good as it means the car has a flaw bad enough that warranted a recall but at least it gets fixed.

I cant see how my above logic has anything to do with anything that I was previously accused of.

Of course, just saying that sadly it does happen all the time.
IMO German "premium" brands are the worst for cars lunching themselves and costing thousands to fix and the manufacturer denying responsibility all the way.
Some go so far as to issue "upgrade kits" to fix faults that do not exist according to themselves.
Audi with the 2.0 TDI and BMW 520d being prime examples.
It has to be said that at least the above two do not go up in flames.

dr.fuzzenstein · 20-05-2014 2:44pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i'm going for lunch :pac:

How was it?

Gazzmonkey · 20-05-2014 2:45pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Of course, just saying that sadly it does happen all the time.
IMO German "premium" brands are the worst for cars lunching themselves and costing thousands to fix and the manufacturer denying responsibility all the way.
Some go so far as to issue "upgrade kits" to fix faults that do not exist according to themselves.
Audi with the 2.0 TDI and BMW 520d being prime examples.
It has to be said that at least the above two do not go up in flames.

I hear ya,

I have an A4 and I've already been through the whole DMF & DPF saga. still sore about it.

All savings gone.

jimgoose · 20-05-2014 2:46pm

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

I hear ya,

I have an A4 and I've already been through the whole DMF & DPF saga. still sore about it.

All savings gone.

Why do ye put up with that sort of meballacks?? Chape tax-and-fuel me hole!

Gazzmonkey · 20-05-2014 3:03pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Why do ye put up with that sort of meballacks?? Chape tax-and-fuel me hole!

I do over 350 miles per week so I thought I would go get my first Diesel but I wasn't aware of DMF nightmares at the time.

thedonscork · 20-05-2014 3:58pm

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

I do over 350 miles per week so I thought I would go get my first Diesel but I wasn't aware of DMF nightmares at the time.

The warranty direct yearly reliability index says it all. All the German makes are at the very bottom. My wife has an A3 1.9 tdi and after only 4 years with only 65k miles the gearbox went. That was a sore expensive replacement. The front discs only last 20k miles before warping and the windscreen washer pump failed and had to be replaced after 40k.

I had passat tdi and basically everything went on it apart from gearbox. Break fluid master cyclinder issue, Injectors, turbo problem, the clutch fly wheel replacement is as common as mud on em. Brake switches, light switches, window switches, interior heating fan, egr valve, and numerous front suspension issues including ball joints, arm links and cv joints to beat the band! Oh and wheel bearing going on it before I finally got rid of this VW Anglo Irish bank!

Never again will I buy a German car, totally overated money sapping rubbish! The top gear spin doctors would have you believe their actually good! Nonsense!

road_high · 20-05-2014 4:06pm

thedonscork wrote: »

The warranty direct yearly reliability index says it all. All the German makes are at the very bottom. My wife has an A3 1.9 tdi and after only 4 years with only 65k miles the gearbox went. That was a sore expensive replacement. The front discs only last 20k miles before warping and the windscreen washer pump failed and had to be replaced after 40k.

I had passat tdi and basically everything went on it apart from gearbox. Break fluid master cyclinder issue, Injectors, turbo problem, the clutch fly wheel replacement is as common as mud on em. Brake switches, light switches, window switches, interior heating fan, egr valve, and numerous front suspension issues including ball joints, arm links and cv joints to beat the band! Oh and wheel bearing going on it before I finally got rid of this VW Anglo Irish bank!

Never again will I buy a German car, totally overated money sapping rubbish! The top gear spin doctors would have you believe their actually good! Nonsense!

It's a shame but far more now reliable makes like Fiat and Renault have awful names whereas as VW seem to be the holy grail of "quality" and relaibility. I too would be very cautious about a German car. It's a double-edged sword of poor relaibility and very expensive parts/fixes with them too.

thedonscork · 20-05-2014 4:18pm

road_high wrote: »

It's a shame but far more now reliable makes like Fiat and Renault have awful names whereas as VW seem to be the holy grail of "quality" and relaibility. I too would be very cautious about a German car. It's a double-edged sword of poor relaibility and very expensive parts/fixes with them too.

Yes your correct, all those makes that are suppose to be trouble are actually in the top half of the reliability index streets ahead of the German makes. It's all just brand marketing nonsense. They fooled me once but not again.

dr.fuzzenstein · 20-05-2014 4:18pm

road_high wrote: »

It's a shame but far more now reliable makes like Fiat and Renault have awful names whereas as VW seem to be the holy grail of "quality" and relaibility. I too would be very cautious about a German car. It's a double-edged sword of poor relaibility and very expensive parts/fixes with them too.

German industries over the years have been decimated by complacency, sky-high prices, poor features and trying to get by purely on reputation, rather than actual quality or performance.
Germany used to be the leading manufacturer for cameras, motorbikes, hifi equipment and other electronics as well as industrial machinery, CNC machines to name but one.
In each case the Japanese where able to make a cheaper, better, more reliable product with more features, extras, better support and (dare I say it) build quality. I seem to remember an article that stated Japanese ball-bearing balls where "rounder" than German ones. Make of that what you will.
The reaction of the German manufacturers was "people will pay twice as much for our stuff because it has Made in Germany" on it."
The only reason the German car (and coal and steel) industries haven't disappeared in the 70's and 80's is because the state pumped billions in subventions into all of the above.
At some stage it would have been cheaper to close all the steel works and send everyone home at full pay, rather than keep production up.
So, German industry survives, but it costs the German taxpayer billions.
I don't know how bad it is these days, but it used to be fairly dire.
Thus is the price of union dominance and trying to sustain a multi-billion Euro vanity project.

jimgoose · 20-05-2014 4:21pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

....

What about the old story:

Company in the US needs a super strong, yet very small drill bit made for them. They send their requests out to a German firm they work with and a Japanese firm they work with. German firm tells them to send them the Japanese drill bit when they get it. US company agrees and does so. German firm sends the Japanese drill bit back to the company in the US and tells them to look at it under a microscope. Once put under the microscope they can see that the German firm made a drill bit small enough to drill holes through the Japanese bit.

jimgoose · 20-05-2014 4:32pm

jimgoose wrote: »

What about the old story...

That reminds me, a friend of mine told me a great one from back around the time Chrysler and Daimler-Benz were merging. The Americans sent a seat from some horrible Chrysler three-box over to the Mercedes folks, with a message along the lines of "Hey, new buddies! We think you guys are paying way too much for seats. Have a look at this - this only costs us a third of what you guys pay!!". So the Merc guys spend a couple of weeks perusing this seat, and afterwards send it back again. "So, whaddaya think?" say the Americans. "Ve sink it is you who are being overcharged."

Opel Insignia 'thermal incident'

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