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Driver (21) banned from driving for 45yrs

  • 05-04-2010 8:00am
    #1
    PCPhoto
    Registered Users Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭PCPhoto


    Honestly

    this is the reason why criminals laugh at the judicial system:
    - 10 previous convictions for the same offence
    - judge turns around and says - I wont put him in prison 'cos he's already done that !!!

    the sooner the judges give proper sentences the better - this guy has served jail for the same offence and goes out and does it again !!!

    my question is do we need to reform the penal system and actually punish people for breaking the law 'cos the current system doesnt seem to be working ?

    http://www.herald.ie/national-news/courts/young-driver-21-put-off-the-road-with-45year-ban-2122834.html

    By Andrew Phelan
    Friday April 02 2010

    A YOUNG motoring offender has been banned from driving again until he is a pensioner, after a judge said a previous 25-year disqualification was not long enough.

    Michael Moran (21) was banned from driving for 45 years after he admitted a series of charges of driving without insurance or a licence.

    Imposing the ban, Judge John Coughlan said he would not jail Moran because he was already coming to the end of a prison term for similar offences.

    Moran, of Drumcairn Avenue, Tallaght, pleaded guilty to driving without insurance, a licence or an NCT certificate in two separate incidents a few weeks apart in Tallaght last year.

    He was caught at Brookview Park on August 5 and Brookfield Road on August 22.

    He had no documentation and failed to produce any to gardai afterwards.

    Tallaght District Court heard he had 10 previous convictions for uninsured and unlicensed driving, as well as convictions for dangerous driving, failing to stop for a garda, no road tax or NCT certificate and non-production of documents at a garda station.

    "He has been in custody since last September and he has had a lot of these matters catch up with him," defence solicitor Grainne Malone said.

    She added that the accused accepted he had been "driving around in cars for a period of time". He had already been handed down a 25-year driving ban by the courts.

    "That is not long enough," Judge Coughlan said.

    Oppose

    Ms Malone said she could not oppose the judge giving a further disqualification.

    Judge Coughlan said he would not add to Moran's prison sentence because he had already served a jail term for similar offences. He was coming to the "very end" of that sentence, Ms Malone said.

    The judge banned Moran from driving for 45 years, endorsed the conviction on his licence and fixed recognisances in the event of an appeal.

    "I won't put him back in prison, he's already done that," the judge added.

    Do we need to change the penal system ? 109 votes

    yes - judges dont punish criminals for re-offending
    0% 0 votes
    No - it works fine (with some exceptions)
    89% 98 votes
    atari jaguar
    10% 11 votes


«13

Comments

  • #2
    **Timbuk2**
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 7,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭**Timbuk2**


    Nah he deserves it. If an uninsured driver was to hit me, I mightn't get paid for the damage done, and those fcukers do not deserve to be on the road imo.


  • #3
    Hank_Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    I honestly don't see how this is going to stop him from doing it again.

    They should have just locked him up.
    At least that way he wouldn't be able to do it for a significant period of time.

    Clearly if he has been caught ten times, he is obviously at it a lot of the time.


  • #4
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    **Timbuk2** wrote: »
    Nah he deserves it. If an uninsured driver was to hit me, I mightn't get paid for the damage done, and those fcukers do not deserve to be on the road imo.
    but how will it stop him driving?

    he drives already with no insurance tax or NCT - whats the small matter of no licence going to do to stop him? In for a penny in for a pound and all that.


  • #5
    MaybeLogic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭MaybeLogic


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    but how will it stop him driving?

    he drives already with no insurance tax or NCT - whats the small matter of no licence going to do to stop him? In for a penny in for a pound and all that.

    Driving against the ban will result in a custodial sentence. Something that hangs over him for quite a while.


  • #6
    **Timbuk2**
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 7,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭**Timbuk2**


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    but how will it stop him driving?

    he drives already with no insurance tax or NCT - whats the small matter of no licence going to do to stop him? In for a penny in for a pound and all that.

    That's a good point, actually - I didn't think of that.

    In hindsight, he deserves to be locked up.


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  • #7
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    We need the turkish style of Justice here. Cut a hand off and that will stop him driving.


  • #8
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    MaybeLogic wrote: »
    Driving against the ban will result in a custodial sentence. Something that hangs over him for quite a while.

    He already had a ban!:rolleyes:


  • #9
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    MaybeLogic wrote: »
    Driving against the ban will result in a custodial sentence. Something that hangs over him for quite a while.
    .. and thats where the previous for "failing to stop for a Garda" should have been taken into account

    EDIT: He was already banned - how did he get off this time so??


  • #10
    MaybeLogic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭MaybeLogic


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    He already had a ban!:rolleyes:
    Max Power1 wrote: »
    .. and thats where the previous for "failing to stop for a Garda" should have been taken into account

    EDIT: He was already banned - how did he get off this time so??

    You'd have to ask the judge that.
    I doubt the next one will be so lenient.
    What this judge has done is make sure that every time this fella is caught driving for the next 45 years (probably half that in practice) he'll be sent to jail.

    Edit; Reading of quotes fail.


  • #11
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    He's already under a 25 year driving ban.

    I really don't see what this extra length is going to do to deter him that the previous one hasn't already done.

    That said, I'm not sure a custodial sentence would do anything either, since he's already served one and that hasn't deterred him either.


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  • #12
    MaybeLogic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭MaybeLogic


    Nevore wrote: »
    He's already under a 25 year driving ban.

    Oh, I didn't spot that.
    Lock up the judge, so.


  • #13
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    MaybeLogic wrote: »
    Oh, I didn't spot that.
    Lock up the judge, so.
    Our judiciary needs a complete overhaul imo. For one thing I'd love a publicly accessible online database of all judgements handed down, searchable by offense, judge, date etc.


  • #14
    c-note
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭c-note


    if a 25year ban didnt stop him, a 45 year ban wont.

    i'd jail him for 5 years with 4.5 suspended
    at the end of the six months, require him to sit a driving test within the next 6 months (or back to jail for the last 4 years)
    and then if he's caught without tax insurance after that, send him back to jail for the rest of the 5 years.

    i wonder sometimes how judges get appointed,
    one things for sure, i wouldnt trust a judge to mind my kids (if i had any)


  • #15
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    its only partly about deterring him from driving

    the main issue is stopping him from driving, and causing an accident (as hes not insured etc he will flee the scene). A driving ban doesnt deter in this occasion whereas a custodial sentence at least stops him driving for a while.


  • #16
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    By the way, this is a serious thread that has lasted till the second page in AH without being derailed? (driven off course if you will).

    Im slightly disappointed tbh


  • #17
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    The guy IS in prison.

    As his lawyer said, all these driving bans have caught up with him.

    The judge is giving the guy the benefit of the doubt that this jail term he is now serving will turn him around and when he gets out, he goes on the straight and narrow.

    In effect the guy is banned for life now anyway.


  • #18
    Andrew33
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭Andrew33


    alex73 wrote: »
    We need the turkish style of Justice here. Cut a hand off and that will stop him driving.

    He could just buy/steal an automatic:rolleyes:


  • #19
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    A driving ban doesnt deter in this occasion whereas a custodial sentence at least stops him driving for a while.

    He is serving a custodial sentence.


  • #20
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    He is serving a custodial sentence.
    which is due to end soon. Surely he deserves a custodial sentence for this offence aswell? Repeated driving with no insurance?


  • #21
    pyramuid man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭pyramuid man


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    but how will it stop him driving?

    he drives already with no insurance tax or NCT - whats the small matter of no licence going to do to stop him? In for a penny in for a pound and all that.
    I say cut off his legs. So there will only be a small amount of cars he can actually drive. He will be less likely to drive if he cant walk. If he cant walk, there are only a few cars adapted for use by people with no legs.

    I think that the courts system could do with a little thinking outside the box on these ones.


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  • #22
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    which is due to end soon. Surely he deserves a custodial sentence for this offence aswell? Repeated driving with no insurance?

    Why?

    Shouldn't be given the chance to see if this sentence has turned him around.

    Ireland is in the middle of a recession where Bankers have stole millions and yet live in mansions and won't do a days hardtime locked in cell!!

    This guy drove without a car without insurance and licence and you want him locked up some more!

    I love this country.


  • #23
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Why?

    Shouldn't be given the chance to see if this sentence has turned him around.

    Ireland is in the middle of a recession where Bankers have stole millions and yet live in mansions and won't do a days hardtime locked in cell!!

    This guy drove without a car without insurance and licence and you want him locked up some more!

    I love this country.
    Ill try that one if im court soon, will I?
    Me: Yes i shot the guy in the back of the head, but judge, please dont sentence me, the bankers did worse?

    FFS


  • #24
    bad2dabone
    Registered Users Posts: 6,333 ✭✭✭bad2dabone


    corkscrew -> ear

    cheap lobotomy. problem solved.

    Next case please!


  • #25
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Shouldn't be given the chance to see if this sentence has turned him around.
    Look at the timeline. He was taken into custody in September and though the article isn't specific, that does seem to be arising out of a custodial sentence.
    So we can assume that he was in court late August/early September on the charges he's currently serving time on. No insurance, no license from the looks of it.
    Yet only a week or three at most, he was charged with the charges that are coming to court now!

    He quite clearly didn't seem to be fazed at all by the upcoming court dates since he continued with the behaviour that he was due up in court over.


  • #26
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    Ill try that one if im court soon, will I?
    Me: Yes i shot the guy in the back of the head, but judge, please dont sentence me, the bankers did worse?

    FFS

    Talk about missing the fucking point.

    I didn't say it should be his defense, don't be so facetious.

    He's already been sentenced and again his last case has now been heard.

    My point is that we need to have some perspective here on what the guy did.

    He didn't stab someone, or commit an armed robbery or rob millions of euro or rape someone etc etc.

    He is guilty of of not having an insurance policy and driving licence.

    He's serving a sentence now.

    He deserves a chance to see if that prison term has had an effect on him.


  • #27
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Talk about missing the fucking point.

    I didn't say it should be his defense, don't be so facetious.

    He's already been sentenced and again his last case has now been heard.

    My point is that we need to have some perspective here on what the guy did.

    He didn't stab someone, or commit an armed robbery or rob millions of euro or rape someone etc etc.

    He is guilty of of not having an insurance policy and driving licence.

    He's serving a sentence now.

    He deserves a chance to see if that prison term has had an effect on him.
    OK fine, I killed someone and am currently approaching the end of my sentence. Its just emerged that I killed someone else. Should I thus be let off with a slap on the wrist for the second one, and no custodial sentence?


  • #28
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    Ill try that one if im court soon, will I?
    Me: Yes i shot the guy in the back of the head, but judge, please dont sentence me, the bankers did worse?

    FFS
    Ah come on! He's in prison right now, what's the point in keeping him there? When he get's out I'm sure he'll think twice about doing it again.


  • #29
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    OK fine, I killed someone and am currently approaching the end of my sentence. Its just emerged that I killed someone else. Should I thus be let off with a slap on the wrist for the second one, and no custodial sentence?
    Apples & oranges.


  • #30
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Ah come on! He's in prison right now, what's the point in keeping him there? When he get's out I'm sure he'll think twice about doing it again.
    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Apples & oranges.
    lets see how you feel if those "apples and oranges" crash into your brand new car and not insured - leaving you ti pick up the tab.


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  • #31
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    OK fine, I killed someone and am currently approaching the end of my sentence. Its just emerged that I killed someone else. Should I thus be let off with a slap on the wrist for the second one, and no custodial sentence?

    Your comparing murder to driving with paying for car insurance?

    Yeah, good man.

    Try a sensible metaphor and I may respond.


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