Query re: "Head of Household"

-Leelo- · 25-09-2015 5:22pm #1

Hi folks,

Just wondering under what,if any, circumstances did the "Head of Household" change in 1901/1911 census.
For example I am looking up my relatives and my great, great grandfather Robert K(e)ane appears on the census in 1901 as head of household, but in 1911 he is not there anymore and now his wife is listed as the head of household.
My first thought was that he died sometime between the 2 census, but the only deaths I can find under that name, during that time frame, are of much older men than he would have been. I know the ages weren't always accurate but these are quite big age differences, 10 - 20 years.
So I suppose what I'm wondering is were there any other circumstances where the wife would be listed as the head of household, i.e if he was away with the army, hospitalised etc.?

shanew · 25-09-2015 5:46pm

Head of household should be someone living in the house at the time. If the husband was somewhere else he should be listed separately. If he died between 1901 and 1911 the wife should have listed herself as a widow.

On some of the census forms for the Army or RIC where the husband lived nearby he filled in the form and signed, but would not usually be on listed on the household form itself.

L1011 · 25-09-2015 6:03pm

The wifes marital status should be on the 1911 document.

I've seen merchant marine, military, RIC, and hospitalisation causing people to be away and the wife as head

shanew · 25-09-2015 6:05pm

based on the instructions on the reverse of the form : ...only people present in the house on census night, or at work or travelling and due back the next morning were to be included, and only if they were not enumerated elsewhere.

-Leelo- · 25-09-2015 6:31pm

Thanks so much for the replies, I just checked the 1911 census and it looks like she had written in "married" but then wrote something else over it and I can't make it out ðŸ˜« So frustrating!

-Leelo- · 25-09-2015 6:54pm

Have another question if anyone would be so kind

When a death occurred was it registered where it occurred or where the person was from, I have found a death record from 1907 in Gorey and the age would be closer to what he would he would have been, but I know the family were still living in Dublin at that time!

shanew · 25-09-2015 6:58pm

All civil BMDs were supposed to be registered in the district they occurred in.

shanew · 25-09-2015 7:21pm

which is your Keane family on the 1901 and 1911 returns ?

-Leelo- · 25-09-2015 8:56pm

shanew wrote: »

which is your Keane family on the 1901 and 1911 returns ?

On the 1901 census they are Robert & Frances Keane of King Street North, Inns Quay.
On the 1911 one they appear as Kane and Robert is not listed as mentioned above. Hendrick Lane, Arran Quay.

shanew · 25-09-2015 9:58pm

there is a 'Married' in there - but looks like there is something else... cant figure it out at the moment...

The number of years married etc is filled in - which in theory should only be done for married women, although there are quite a few example of people filling this in when widowed, and on on occasion crossed out, which can sometimes be useful

for ref. all born Dublin City, and Robert is a 'Hack Car Driver', so probably more likely to have worked in and around the city but it's possible that he may have journeyed outside the city or even the county

Another possibility is that he might have been in Prison or Hospital. These often list people under their initials on the census form

EDIT : Have you found Robert jnr. in 1901 ?

.

pinkypinky · 25-09-2015 10:09pm

Is it widow?

shanew · 25-09-2015 10:14pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Is it widow?

there could be a 'd' in the right place there - looks like an ascender of some sort in the middle there. First letter's a mess..

shanew · 25-09-2015 10:22pm

just to eliminate... there are four burials that I see of a Robert Keane/Kane in Glasnevin between 1901 and 1911 - some too young (1 and 23 - prob. the one in Hammond Lane in '01) and the others too old (60 & 80) to be likely matches.. I didn't see anything promising under Caine/Cain

shanew · 25-09-2015 10:28pm

There's an R. K. listed at Richmond Asylum in 1911 - age 53, Frances jumps from 33 to 51 between census so could fit for Robert. This male is RC born 'Dublin', married and a 'Car Driver'

see : http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=k&exact=&firstname=r&county19011911=Dublin&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=M&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=50

-Leelo- · 25-09-2015 10:36pm

That certainly could be him because as you said the wife's age jumps quite significantly so his could well do too!

Could you advise me on how (if this is him) to find out who his parents were? Reason being I discovered today that my great grandmother (daughter of Robert & Frances Keane) and my great grandfathers mother both share the same maiden name, Keane / Kane so it seems as though my great grandparents may have been related, and I'm trying to ascertain if they were, how closely related were they.

shanew · 25-09-2015 10:38pm

-Leelo- wrote: »

....Could you advise me on how (if this is him) to find out who his parents were? ....

I'd suggest working back to the marriage - a civil marriage cert will show father's names and occupations, and a church marriage might show both parents' names depending on the parish

Do you have the children baptisms or births ?

shanew · 25-09-2015 10:44pm

based on the BMD Index the there's a possible match in the 2nd Qtr 1890 (v2/pg603) in Dublin South, exactly matching the "year's married" Frances entered on the census return... but not seeing a parish record for it yet...

-Leelo- · 25-09-2015 11:12pm

shanew wrote: »

I'd suggest working back to the marriage - a civil marriage cert will show father's names and occupations, and a church marriage might show both parents' names depending on the parish

Do you have the children baptisms or births ?

Yes I had found a record for Frances Jrs baptism, Frances (the mother) maiden name was Fitzpatrick, hadn't occurred to me to look up the marriage though for some reason!

shanew · 26-09-2015 12:14am

-Leelo- wrote: »

Yes I had found a record for Frances Jrs baptism, Frances (the mother) maiden name was Fitzpatrick...

that's the one I based the marriage search on... the other Baptisms might have been in St. Paul's Arran Quay, which are not on the IrishGenealogy website. Transcripts for this parish are on RootsIreland and images are on the NLI films. The NLI films only cover up to the 1880s, and seem to include marriages up to Oct. 1889. This parish would fit with the general area this family seem to have lived - at least three different addresses between 1900 and 1911.

That civil cert might be the simpler option... the possible match I mentioned is Dublin South, which would not include St. Pauls. It would include city parishes such as St. Andrew's, St. Catherine, SS. Michael & John's, St. James, St. Nicholas (Francis St.) etc., and parts of the south suburbs and south west County Dublin - e.g. Rathmines, Saggart etc

-Leelo- · 26-09-2015 4:02am

Thanks so much for your help, very much appreciated!
I have one last question, is there anywhere I can look up the Richmond Asylum patient records?

pinkypinky · 26-09-2015 7:47am

-Leelo- wrote: »

Thanks so much for your help, very much appreciated!
I have one last question, is there anywhere I can look up the Richmond Asylum patient records?

See our thread on the Grangegorman records - it's the same place and you have to foi the records which are held but by the National Archives.

-Leelo- · 26-09-2015 8:15am

pinkypinky wrote: »

See our thread on the Grangegorman records - it's the same place and you have to foi the records which are held but by the National Archives.

Brilliant, thanks so much!

Query re: "Head of Household"

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