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Pussy Riot and Russia

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Comments

  • #92
    cyberhog
    Registered Users Posts: 940 ✭✭✭cyberhog


    Einhard wrote: »
    I condemn all that cyberhog. All right-minded people should do so.

    And yet we haven't heard any condemnation from Western leaders. So by your logic Obama, Cameron, and their cohorts are not "right-minded people" but then you jump to their defense if anyone dares to "have a go at the West". You know it's hard to take you seriously when you can't even present a consistent argument.


  • #93
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cyberhog wrote: »
    ..........

    Having sex with a frozen chicken in a supermarket clearly meets the definition.

    degeneracy
    3. Corrupt, vulgar, vicious behavior, especially sexual perversion.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/degeneracy

    So you believe in Governments enforcing a strict moral code then?


  • #94
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    MOD NOTE:

    OK, we get it. The West sucks. Since that horse was flogged to death some time ago, can we all move on please?


  • #95
    Eggy Baby!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    On a side note: I noticed while reading an article on this story that Russia was downgraded last year to the ranking of "authoritarian state" in the Democracy Index. This places them below such bastions of democracy as Pakistan, Venezuela, Cambodia and Niger.

    I could get you an academic democracy index in which Russia is ranked much higher, if you like?

    The Democracy Index is so fraught with inexplicable stuff its hard to take it seriously. Almost as much as the Freedom House index was.
    Having sex with a frozen chicken in a supermarket clearly meets the definition.

    Source?


  • #96
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,500 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Eggy Baby! wrote: »
    I could get you an academic democracy index in which Russia is ranked much higher, if you like?

    I accept your offer.


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  • #97
    abrr1000
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭abrr1000


    Eggy Baby! wrote: »
    But the protest was against Putin, and not the church.

    The protest was not against Putin - that's what they're making it out to be now. What it was - those 3 idiots running into the church on easter service and shouting profanities at everyone present and exposing themselves...

    It is not really fair to compare them to the rubber bandits in Ireland - they are entertainers not hooligans.

    I think the state are right to punish such hooliganism it is disgusting and whatever they were "protesting" against - this "protest" was carried out in the most distasteful and undignified way.

    I doubt they made anyone think - yeah these girls have a point...


  • #98
    Eggy Baby!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    I accept your offer.

    http://http://www.systemicpeace.org/polity/polity4.htm

    Here you go. The Polity IV project home page. Scroll down a bit and you will see a coloured map. Those countries in dark blue are full democracies, those in red are autocracies (i.e "Authoritarian Regimes"). Light blues are democracies. Also mentioned are "middle ground" countries known as Anocracies. They are represented by the colours patterned with dots.

    On the scale, +10 is a full democracy and -10 is the least democratic hereditary monarchy. Russia was +4 in 2010. Its score is extremely likely to increase if the Polity IV is updated to 2012.

    http://http://www.systemicpeace.org/polity/rus2.htm

    (Notice that Russia is regarded as more democratic as of 2010 than it was during the "golden years" of Yeltsin)

    Therefore Russia is currently classified as an "Open Anocracy".

    (The drop in Russia's score in 2005 can be most definitely attributed to the removal of governor elections. As these have been restored, Russia's score technically has increased back to +6. A country with +6 or above is regarded as a democracy. -5 or below is an autocracy.)
    It is not really fair to compare them to the rubber bandits in Ireland - they are entertainers not hooligans.

    I didn't compare them to the personality of the Rubber Bandits, but rather, their physical appearance.
    The protest was not against Putin - that's what they're making it out to be now.

    The lyrics of the protest made it fairly evident it was against Putin, albeit expressed in a socially challenged and attention-seeking way.


  • #99
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #100
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    abrr1000 wrote: »
    The protest was not against Putin - that's what they're making it out to be now. What it was - those 3 idiots running into the church on easter service and shouting profanities at everyone present and exposing themselves...
    ............point...

    You've some sources to back this up? Certainly its the first time I've heard it mentioned.


  • #101
    abrr1000
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭abrr1000


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/20/pussy-riot-punk-prayer-lyrics?newsfeed=true

    Here you go - plenty of profanities and distastefulness.
    There were families with children at this service - I think there are other places they could have made their protest if they have such strong feelings - but to shove it in everyone's face literally was just disgusting.


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  • #102
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    abrr1000 wrote: »
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/20/pussy-riot-punk-prayer-lyrics?newsfeed=true

    Here you go - plenty of profanities and distastefulness.
    There were families with children at this service - I think there are other places they could have made their protest if they have such strong feelings - but to shove it in everyone's face literally was just disgusting.

    Wow....they sang "crap" and "bastard". O the horror......

    I'm not seeing "shouting profanities at everyone present and exposing themselves".


  • #103
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #104
    abrr1000
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭abrr1000


    That translation uses very nice words


  • #105
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #106
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    abrr1000 wrote: »
    That translation uses very nice words

    I'm still not seeing sources for "shouting profanities at everyone present and exposing themselves". Any reason ?


  • #107
    Eggy Baby!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    abrr1000 wrote: »
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/20/pussy-riot-punk-prayer-lyrics?newsfeed=true

    Here you go - plenty of profanities and distastefulness.
    There were families with children at this service - I think there are other places they could have made their protest if they have such strong feelings - but to shove it in everyone's face literally was just disgusting.

    Unfortunately you gave a link to misinformation from the Guardian. "Crap" should be replaced with "S**t".

    And they never exposed themselves. All they did was show a bit of arm, or is that banned?

    Can someone get me the Russian lyrics and I'll be able to truly determine if they swore or simply said "Crap"?

    That translation is really horrible.


  • #108
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    abrr1000 wrote: »
    I think the state are right to punish such hooliganism it is disgusting and whatever they were "protesting" against - this "protest" was carried out in the most distasteful and undignified way.
    There were families with children at this service - I think there are other places they could have made their protest if they have such strong feelings - but to shove it in everyone's face literally was just disgusting.

    So what?

    When is offending people ever an acceptable reason in itself, to put people behind bars?


  • #109
    Eggy Baby!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    Just a bit of a bump, as I'm hearing interesting updates on the case.

    As you probably know, the verdict has been taken to appeal.

    But:
    A Moscow court has freed one of the convicted women from the punk band Pussy Riot but upheld two-year jail terms for the other two.

    There were cheers in court when the two-year jail term of Yekaterina Samutsevich, 30, was suspended.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19893008

    News has been pretty slow on this since the verdict but this is quite an interesting development.


  • #110
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    A fairly crap one, tbh. Is there a higher court they can go to?


  • #111
    Eggy Baby!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    Nodin wrote: »
    A fairly crap one, tbh. Is there a higher court they can go to?

    Yep. The trial was originally in a district court. Above that there are regional courts and then the supreme court.


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  • #112
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Couldn't they appeal to the ECHR. Russia is a member, last I checked.


  • #113
    Eggy Baby!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    wes wrote: »
    Couldn't they appeal to the ECHR. Russia is a member, last I checked.

    Yes, they could.

    This option is discussed here:
    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/2012823795897200.html
    If they so wish, Pussy Riot can appeal the verdict, up to and including in the European Court of Human Rights. But they shouldn't count on victory there. After all, Khodorkovsky failed to prove his prosecution was politically motivated several times in the ECHR - and he had a lot more money and influence than Pussy Riot ever will.

    If I'm honest, this story fizzled out pretty quickly once the buzz died down.


  • #114
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,500 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Was it entirely a coincidence that woman was released around the time of Putin's 60th birthday? A touch of compassion from the Tsar perhaps to mark the occasion.


  • #115
    dizzywizlw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 584 ✭✭✭dizzywizlw


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    So what?

    When is offending people ever an acceptable reason in itself, to put people behind bars?

    When it infringes on their right of religious belief IN the private base of said religious belief...


  • #116
    Eggy Baby!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    Was it entirely a coincidence that woman was released around the time of Putin's 60th birthday? A touch of compassion from the Tsar perhaps to mark the occasion.

    Yep the Dark Lord Putin let the innocent girl out the gates of Mordor.....etc. etc.


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