What's the Alternative?

Pamela13 wrote: »

Seriously, what is the alternative?

We voted FF/Greens out? We got FG/Labor in -- there isn't enough in SF/Left Alliance to form a government (if that is your inclination)....What's next?

We are restricted by FF's agreement to bail out the banks, e.g. Anglo-Irish, etc, so what next?

In an ideal world, we don't pay for the bankers -- what about the real world?

Just curious

This is unlikely to happen but I am not discounting the possibility that SF/ULA could eventually get into power.

If that happened it would really shake up politics in Ireland which I think is what we need.

My hope is that after one term with Gerry Adams as Taoiseach and the probable rise in government spending and taxation there would be a sharp swing back to the right with some new party filling the vacuum.

RMD wrote: »

I don't see a coalition of SF / ULA ever getting into power. The vast majority of the middle class will not vote for them. They're populist parties preaching what people want to hear. What people want to hear generally doesn't work in the real world and most people realise this.

Look at labour, they used to be a populist party. Now that they're in power they've had to backtrack on many of their pre-election policies.

So Labour is one example of populist party getting into power.

RichardAnd wrote: »

We could debate the differences between parties for many hours but to me, it seems that elections here can be summed up by a quote from the late Bill Hicks.

"I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs."
"I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking."
"Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding out both puppets!"

Excellent quote and pretty much sums it up.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Excellent quote and pretty much sums it up.

Thank you. I would encourage anything with an interest in politics to look into Bill Hicks works. He was far more than a comedian, he was a man with a truly wonderful and refreshing view on the world. The same could be said of George Carlin.

The reality as I see it, is that that it doesn't matter who we vote for or how we choose to vote in a referendum. The real rulers of the world aren't politicians and if they are, they certainly aren't Irish politicians. Your local TD might be able to get the odd fence fixed or arrange for a school to have a new boiler installed but when it comes to the real items of power, the laws are made and signed at a far higher level.

Thus, when the venal little sock puppets in RTE taut out another convoluted piece of half truths or propaganda, don't bother getting worked up or shaking your fist at a picture of Enda Kenny because he doesn't matter. No, Enda and his coterie of fools and yes men exist for a very simple reason, they postulate the idea that the masses actually have a choice in the decisions that affect their lives and when the great unwashed become irate, they stand ready to soak up backlash, however mild it is.

When the next election rolls around, vote for FG, FF, the ULA, SF or whomever else decides to stand, it doesn't matter who wins. As for me, I think I'd like to see Jedward sitting in Enda's seat for a few years because if they were, people might start to wake up when they realise nothing will change.

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah right.
Dream on.

The last few days have shown how much they would shake up politics.
They can't bring themselves to demand that a tax defaulter and tax cheat should resign his seat.
They have offered mealy mouthed excuses.
They have claimed it is wrong, but they have also stated the person in question should not resign as it is a matter for the people who elected him.

Even the most self righteous of them all one, joe higgins, has slipped.

Not to mention the People Before Profit Taxes .

The funny thing is they did not adopt this stance when the moriarity report came out and they demanded the TD involved in that should resign immediately.

Oh and if you think SF are any different did anybody notice the excuses trotted out when one of their members was found out to have purchased at taxpayers expense enough printing cartridges to outdo Folens publishing. :rolleyes:

Just to clarify. I think the ULA would perform terribly in government. SF are slightly more sane but only slightly. (I do support the reunification of Ireland though)

I am dreaming, but my dream is not for a socialist utopia with the common "worker" on the dole and the super rich (any one with a job) paying all the tax.

My dream is that they would do such a terrible job that the nation would recoil in horror and swing sharply to the economic right.

Really what I am saying is that there is a political void in Ireland at the moment which needs to be filled by a new party and I'm just fantasizing about how we might get there

BFDCH. wrote: »

so what are you saying? there is no alternative- is that it?

Well the gobsh**es of the left are exactly that.
There policies have always been of the fairytale variety, but at least one could claim they were honourable and had some integrity.

The last week has shown they do not have the above, when they can't even demand the resignation of a politican that has engaged in tax evasion, because he would be closer to them than members of other parties.

If you can't see the issue with the likes of ULA, PBP, Ming, etc claiming on the one hand they want to shake things up whilst on the other backing a tax cheat then I think you are deluded somewhat.

The alternative is we start from scratch.
For a start we need a new party to shake things up.
A party not populated by eejits who just protest against everything (stand up richie boyd boy), a party not made up of ones that view our police force as legitimate targets (mr ferris), a party not made up of the ones who want the local gombeenism to continue (healy-raes, mattie mcgraths), a party not beholden to unions or some failed socialist ideology and a party not made up of the old tribalism of ff and FG.

But this party will not work as long as the people continue to support the existing status quo.
In short we get the politicans we vote for and support.
FFS I come from a county which has people who would still support bev flynn.
People in Limerick still support o'dea.
People in Tipp still support lowry.
People in Kerry still support ferris.
And as sure as God, there will be people in Wexford who will still support Wallace.
For all the cr** about change, people are still doing the same thing.

BFDCH. wrote: »

we accept that everyone in there are clowns cut from the same cloth and that we are going to be ****ed the same way regardless of which clown we vote into power? we just roll our eyes and let them get on with it.

I dont' accept everyone in there is a clown.
Some are cute hoors and these are far more dangerous.
Some are smart hardworking and honest, but as a whole most of them could be described as clowns who are in it for their own good.

john47 wrote: »

There will be a discussion later this year on lowering the voting age...that could be fun.

I am all for lowering the voting age but it needs to be replaced with an alternate method of ensuring the voter is competent. This would in fact be more effective than what we have now as half of Ireland seems incompetent.

What would this consist of? A brief questionnaire about the policies/impacts of the person/party/choice you are voting for submitted with your vote. You get it wrong and your vote is null. This would at least force people to make an informed decision.

Expect the drinking age to be lowered to 16

I suppose there will probably be low voter turnout at the next election.

I guess a list system is badly needed at this stage, to get some kind of a technocratic government.

I'd prefer to just hand the reigns over to the EU tbh tho, bypass the gombeen Irish middleman.

Representative democracy has taken us as far as it can go and it's limitations grow more obvious by the day. It's time to begin moving towards a more comprehensive direct democracy with a robust system of checks and balances.

The only real alternative that makes any political sense is a FF/FG coalition. Notwithstanding their historical differences, they are the most likeminded politically and may actually drive the country in a single direction .. rather than having fundamentally opposed coalition parties pulling against one another . .

By the next election, Labour will have imploded even further; the ULA can't even keep a non-political 'technical group' together and seem to abandon their principles when one of their comrades is in hot water; FG will never get an overall majority and the only party who seem to have any level of stability is Sinn Fein (Gerry Adams for Tanaiste ??)

Its time this country had a real choice between right and left . .