I'll have a BQ please Bob

The_Boy_Wonder · 15-01-2012 8:03pm #1

A Quick Intro
I've endured/suffered/completed 5 marathons at this stage, the quickest being DCM in 2011 in 4.16. Was disappointed on that day as I had really hoped to break the 4 hours. All didn't go to plan on the day, so I guess it just wasn't meant to be.
Since then I've completed Waterford half in 1.45 and invested in P&D's book.

The plan now is to tackle Barcelona on 25 March. I'm every bit as determined to break this 4 hour hoodoo (as it almost is now. I know I have the pace for it with my times over 5/10/half. I'm following the 12/55 plan from the book, so decided to throw up the log of my trials and tribulations

Week 2 of the Plan
Monday 9th - 11 miles @ 8.57. Basically jogged home after work from IFSC to Clonsilla, by going up the NCR, back down to parkgate street, around the back of the Phoneix Park. That climb up out of Chapelizod always tough, but felt okay other than that.

Tue 10th - Just a session in gym, on bike, cross trainer and core work

Wed 11th - 9 miles. Average pace was 8.44 and HR averaged 157. Basically headed out from work again up the NCR and on up the Navan road. First 3 miles were @ 9 minute miles, they are 3 uphill miles so no point killing myself up that as I knew I had some LT miles to do in this session. I then did the next 4 @ LT or as close as I could. Those 4 miles rolled off @ 8.13, 8.00, 7.45, 8.02. I was pushing to keep that pace and obviously the HR went up. Took the next mile after that nice and slow and then back to 8.30 for the last mile. Interesting to be having

Thurs 12th - rest

Fri 13th - 5 mile recovery @ 9.44

Sat 14th - 15.3 miles @ 9.17 - Avg HR 149. Met up with the Boards group @ 9 in the park. Enjoyed doing long run in company as most of the LSR for DCM were on my own. Certainly the miles clicked along nicely. Did the last mile on my own as the rest of the group were going further on a different route. Quickened up for that mile and all felt good. Don't remeber any of the DCM long runs being as comfortable as that.

Sun 15th - Rest

Weekly total 40.3 - Very happy with that

pconn062 · 15-01-2012 8:23pm

Good luck with the log, sub 4 should be no bother given your half time if the training goes well.

The_Boy_Wonder · 22-01-2012 7:23pm

Week 3 of the Plan
Monday 16th - 9.6 miles @ 8.35 (Avg HR 157 ). Basically jogged home after work from IFSC to Clonsilla, by Navan Road. The plan included 10 x 100m, so I started that after 7 miles after averaging about 8.40 up until that

Tue 17th - 4.5 mile recovery @ 8. . Legs were heavy when I started out so just figured I'd take it handy and just plod away at what pace the legs were comfortable. Looked at the watch after 2 miles and was doing 8.20 average, so forced myself to slow down.

Wed 18th - 11 miles @ 9.01 (Avg HR 146). Left work and stomach was acting up, so had a pit stop after 4 miles in a hotel near Phoneix park. Much better after that and same route as previous week, up Knockmaroon again

Thurs 19th - rest

Fri 20th - Should have had a 4 mile recovery but had pints on thursday night so couldn't drag myself out of bed early enough for it before work and unexpected working late meant there was no time after work.

Sat 21st - 18.7 miles @ 9.25 - Avg HR 148. Met up with the Boards group @ 9 in the park. Started off at nice easy pace. Looped out around War Memorial, and then up Knockmaroon again. Some hill. In the second loop the pace was dropping towards 10min miles, so pushed on a bit and after a couple of miles on my own, a couple of the boardsie caught up. Tried to get the pace as close to 9 mins, but up hills and into the wind it was closer to 9.30. This LSR was supposed to have been 16, but was going well and the guys were heading out to War Memorial again so kept going. The final hill up Kyber into the wind was tough and was really feeling the legs at this stage. Still good run and happy with the week again.

Sun 15th - Rest

Weekly total 43.8 despite missing a recovery run

The_Boy_Wonder · 29-01-2012 12:15pm

Week 3 of the Plan
Monday 23rd - 10.2 @ 8.10 (Avg HR 158 ). Jog home from work. First three at 8.30ish then the next 6 @ LT of approx 8.00. And finished with any easy one

Tue 24th - 4.6 mile recovery @ 8.52 .

Wed 25th - 11 miles @ 8.46 (Avg HR 151). Same route as previous weeks so involved Knockmaroon again. Still don't look forward to that climb!

Thurs 26th - rest

Fri 27th - Should have had a 4 mile recovery but lazy in morning and worked late

Sat 28th - 19.7 miles @ 9.21 - Avg HR 144. Met up with the Digijem, Sunflowerro and Jcsmum for first loop @ 9. first loop flew by even though we were probably too quick for a LSR (avg first loop 9.06). Back to carpark for 10 to pick up more boardsie and for some fluids. Second loop was pretty much the first in reverse direction. nice to meet a couple of boardsie's I hadn't met before. Pace on second loop was a bit more sensible. Legs were felling unusually heavy for start of 3rd loop especially considering we were heading down the Kyber. We took the climb up Knockmaroon and then headed up to Castleknock and then back to car park. Left Digijem to finish her marathon (literally) session. Last couple of miles were both just under 9mins so finished strong.
The training plan had 18 so with 19.7 done didn't really feel the need to round up, even if laps of the car park now seems like the thing to do!!
The worst of the run was only to be uncovered when I got home. Nipple plaster malfunction had meant my DCM finisher t-shirt got a bit scarlet:mad:. Surprised I hadn't noticed/felt it on the run. Obviously building some pain resistence. Salty sweat running into it shower brought me back to a whimper though!

Sun 15th - 3.8 recovery @9.16

Weekly total 49.3. Definitely record weekly mileage.

hot to trot · 29-01-2012 2:49pm

Going great so far. It will be sweet reward to have a marathon time beginning with a 3.

Keep the head and work nice and steady , don't get ahead of yourself.
Looking forward to your log.

DigiJem · 29-01-2012 3:26pm

Good run yesterday, you're well on track for Barca.

The_Boy_Wonder · 01-02-2012 10:54pm

Week 5 of the Plan

Step back week. Kinda of glad of that

Monday 30th - 12miles @ 9.00 (Avg HR 147 ). Wasn't feeling too enthusiastic about this one. Loped along until I got to the bottom of Knockmaroon. Seemed to wake me up and I seemed to kick on a bit from there. Was pretty pooped when I got to the sofa later

Tue 31st - Rest

Wed 1st - 9 miles @ 8.11 (Avg HR 157). First three miles handy enough. The next three at LT. Decided to push a little bit harder than previous runs including LT. So the 5 rolled off @ 7.53, 7.42, 7.38, 7.45, 7.32. Wasn't paying much attention to the garmin, but knew I was workin. HR was high 160's during the 5 miles. Last mile felt like I was about 12.00 minute miles but was actually 9.00

Friday has 16 miles planned with 12 @ PMP, and then one recovery run on Sat or Sun, before the miles start ramping up again

rainbow kirby · 01-02-2012 11:00pm

Best of luck with it - Barcelona's great, and you're faster than what I was when I broke 4 hours there last year

The_Boy_Wonder · 01-02-2012 11:10pm

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Best of luck with it - Barcelona's great, and you're faster than what I was when I broke 4 hours there last year

Cheers... fingers crossed the training keeps going well, and then it'll be all down to the day

belcarra · 02-02-2012 12:11am

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

Friday has 16 miles planned with 12 @ PMP, and then one recovery run on Sat or Sun, before the miles start ramping up again

Not sure what time you are planning on that run on Friday at but myself and Philip who you met a couple of weeks ago on a Sat LSR are going to be doing miles in the Park from 2pm-5pm if you're around at that time?
Your PMP will probably be a bit fast for us but we may be able to compromise for a few miles...

The_Boy_Wonder · 02-02-2012 10:14am

belcarra wrote: »

Not sure what time you are planning on that run on Friday at but myself and Philip who you met a couple of weeks ago on a Sat LSR are going to be doing miles in the Park from 2pm-5pm if you're around at that time?
Your PMP will probably be a bit fast for us but we may be able to compromise for a few miles...

Hi. I saw you had that LSR down for the Friday. Unfortunaetly I'm not sure it'll work for me. I need to be in Kilkenny for about 6pm, and with Friday evening traffic I might need to be out of Dublin a bit early to be running in the park. I have the day off so was planning to do the run in the AM but if things change I'll be sure to let you know

The_Boy_Wonder · 03-02-2012 4:29pm

Fri 3rd - 16 miles @ 8.26 (Avg HR 157). Plan called for 16 with 12 of those at PMP. Decided to start off at PMP . I think my legs got a bit confused with the quick miles during the week, so I was working at slowing things to the PMP. Took about 5 miles to really find a proper rhythm. Settled into then and churned the miles out. Route was fairly flat with the drag from the courts up to Castleknock being the worst of today's route. Decided after 12 to try and keep the PMP going the rest of the way. So did the 16 at PMP. Was a bit of a struggle for the legs and the HR was in low 160's during the last couple of miles. I know this marathon training malarkey isn't supposed to be easy, but just wondering am I doing a little too much too soon. Probably bit off a bit too much so will go very easy on the recovery run tomorrow.

Would any of these with a bit more expertise have a view based on my HR for today's run if that pace of 8.30 is a bit too quick for the 26.2. It's the pace that McMillan calc indicates I could do based on my Dec '11 Waterford half time converts to for the full marathon. I know it's relative to my max HR, but based on your own experiences would you run the full with an average HR in the high 150's (probably would sneak in to low 160's with 10 more miles)?

menoscemo · 03-02-2012 4:36pm

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

Would any of these with a bit more expertise have a view based on my HR for today's run if that pace of 8.30 is a bit too quick for the 26.2. It's the pace that McMillan calc indicates I could do based on my Dec '11 Waterford half time converts to for the full marathon. I know it's relative to my max HR, but based on your own experiences would you run the full with an average HR in the high 150's (probably would sneak in to low 160's with 10 more miles)?

What's your max HR?
I have a max of 185ish and My average in barcelona last year (probably my best marathon performance) was 154.
That said, PMP always is a few beats higher per minute in training because you don't have the taper, you are also taking on board more water and gels in a race which helps keep it down.

I think a marathon HR is a very personal thing (P&D prescribes a very large range of Marathon Pace HR), do you have any previous info on your HR from previous marathons? I know you had a few blow ups so what was your avergae up to the point when the wheels came off?

hot to trot · 03-02-2012 7:04pm

Going by working heart rate/( reserve heart rate)percentages rather than straight percentages This is a pretty good guideline IMHO:

LSR and easy runs 70%
Marathon 75% - 80%

( if you start at 80% you are more likely to struggle at the end ) . If you start at 75% and it drifts up to 80% , you will even survive going to 85 in the last mile or two.

I have always tended to hold back on marathons and run 75-78 and then have been comfortable to push at the end. Any marathon i have run closer to 80-82% early in the race has had me walking/jogging or struggling to make the finish line.
Half marathon 80%
10k -85%

5K 90-95%

As I say, I came across it somewhere but I found it a very userful guide and it has never let me down.

The_Boy_Wonder · 04-02-2012 2:03pm

Thanks for this troops. To be honest prior to the last few months I didn't wear a HR monitor in any training runs or races, so I'm kinda new to measuring effort levels like this so have no idea what my HR was when I blew up. I'm just taking things about more seriously this time around and trying to cover off what some would consdier the basics.
From trying to establish my max I have seen myself record 192 in the Waterford Half in the sprint around the track at the end. the last mile there averaged about 185 too. average for the entire race was 175.
I think from the two notes you have put together, I'm there or thereabouts in the effort levels on pace etc. That's good to know and in a way it's eye opener and a comfort.

I didn't realise the taper and water/gels would help lower HR. THe learning curve continues with the fitness levels!

menoscemo · 04-02-2012 3:29pm

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

Thanks for this troops. To be honest prior to the last few months I didn't wear a HR monitor in any training runs or races, so I'm kinda new to measuring effort levels like this so have no idea what my HR was when I blew up. I'm just taking things about more seriously this time around and trying to cover off what some would consdier the basics.
From trying to establish my max I have seen myself record 192 in the Waterford Half in the sprint around the track at the end. the last mile there averaged about 185 too. average for the entire race was 175.
I think from the two notes you have put together, I'm there or thereabouts in the effort levels on pace etc. That's good to know and in a way it's eye opener and a comfort.

I didn't realise the taper and water/gels would help lower HR. THe learning curve continues with the fitness levels!

From the sound of it you max is high 190s. If I were you i'd start off around 160 to be conservative and let it go up towards then end of the race. You should be able to get away with an average around 165.

sunflowerRo · 04-02-2012 8:00pm

Good luck with the log. You are doing some serious mileage there. Bring on Barca!

The_Boy_Wonder · 05-02-2012 8:05pm

sunflowerRo wrote: »

Good luck with the log. You are doing some serious mileage there. Bring on Barca!

Once you get that P&D programme in action you'll be doing the same 'serious' stuff! How is the knee/injury?

sunflowerRo · 05-02-2012 8:31pm

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

Once you get that P&D programme in action you'll be doing the same 'serious' stuff! How is the knee/injury?

I'm loving that P&D book, there is some great stuff in it. Knee is messed up. I'm so disappointed. Oh well I had a good run of it for long enough

The_Boy_Wonder · 05-02-2012 10:09pm

sunflowerRo wrote: »

I'm loving that P&D book, there is some great stuff in it. Knee is messed up. I'm so disappointed. Oh well I had a good run of it for long enough

Well sure give the knee rest and physio and you'll be back in tha game before you know it. I know the feeling you probably want to go running more now than when you fully fit!

The_Boy_Wonder · 06-02-2012 11:17pm

Sat 4th - 5 miles @8.53... Supposed to be recovery but that pace felt really easy after Friday's 16 @MP

Weekly total 42

Week 6

Monday 6th - 12 miles @8.44 with average HR 147. Nothing too remarkable about this one apart from the jaunt up Knockmaroon and a crazy sprint to get under the railings at Coolmine railway crossing. I had slowed to wait but when I saw a brave comrade making a dash from the other side I guessed if it's good enough for him it's good enough for me!

The_Boy_Wonder · 07-02-2012 8:26am

Tues 7th - 5.2 miles @ 9.01... Bust this evening so today's five had tgo be done early in the dark. Legs took a while to wake up but seeing as it was only 9 hours since I finshed the 12 last night it was somewhat understandable

The_Boy_Wonder · 08-02-2012 11:56pm

Wed 8th - 10.2 miles @8.26 (Avg HR 151). This 10 miles included 5 x 1000. First three miles were uphill, then on the flat started the intervals. Tried to do the intervals @ 7.20 and managed that except for the last which was 7.25 which wasn't so bad. Was fairly banjaxed (a technical term I found in P&D!) after that, so the last two were very leisurely.

The_Boy_Wonder · 11-02-2012 2:39pm

Thurs - Rest

Fri 10th - Plan said 6 miles with 6 x 100m. Early AM run so didn't have time to complete the six, so just had the 4.6 miles including the 6 x 100m

Sat 11th - 20 miles Avg pace 9.08 Avg HR 139
Met up with Pistol and Chinguetti @ 8am. They were doing 6 easy before speeding up for 10 more. 6 miles clicked by quick enough. Rest of boardsies were met @ 9. Various folk doing different speeds/distances. Hedaded off with the slower group. Had to detour away from the group for a toilet break after just 2 miles with the group. Thought I'd be on my open for the next 12. Ended up running about 3 on my own before meeting Belcarra, Rainbow Kirby and Phillip, so ran with them until they finished up at which stage I had 15 miles done and the solo miles excepted they all flew by so company certainly helps on the LSRs.
Headed out with BriandeRunner for the last 5. Knew I'd struggle to keep his pace at he had been with the faster group. Kept it going for about a mile, but I think I was only holding him up so he headed off into the s-bends at a pace more suitable for him. Toddled around the rest and quickened up for the last two miles with an 8.30 and an 8.00 to finish.
I have to say I'm not struggling with the long runs I did before Dublin. Certainly flet I could have churned out another few, maybe not at 8.00 min miles but certainly I'm getting more confident about the 4 hour barrier. HR rate for today was probably as low as I have seen for anything close to 9 min miles

Weekly total 52.... First 50 mile week. Think I deserve some pints later as reward!

chinguetti · 11-02-2012 3:25pm

8.30 and 8.00 finishing miles is great going. Looks like whatever you're doing is the right thing. Enjoy the pints:D

The_Boy_Wonder · 14-02-2012 10:29am

Mon 13th – 13.1miles Avg pace 7.56 (Avg HR 157)
The plan had 12 miles with 7 of these at LT. I wasn’t looking forward to this as had crappy day in work and almost bailed on it. The first three miles of the route home are uphill, so the intention was to start the 7 LT after these. The three were done a bit quicker than normal averaged about 8.15/8.20. I then couldn’t get the pace down under 8.00 so the session wasn’t going to plan, but then after 5 miles were completed I got the pace down to about 7.40. I didn’t quite sustain that that all the way but it only dropped about 10 secs per mile over the next few miles. I got carried away with myself then and said I’d tack on another 1.1 miles at the end at the same pace and see what kind of half time that would give me. Finished in 1.44 which is an unofficial PB by fifty odd seconds.
I had completed the Waterford half in Dec in 1.44.56. However that day my average HR was 175 and I really emptied the tank. Couldn’t have gone any faster or further. Whereas this run felt much more comfortable and the HR would indicate that. I could have gone faster (not much but definitely faster) or I could have continued for another mile or two at the same pace.
There’s probably another minute or two to come off the half time, and maybe some stage later in the year I might target 1.40 for the half. Something to aim for after Barca!
Think I need to be disciplined with today’s recovery run!

belcarra · 14-02-2012 10:45am

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

Mon 13th – 13.1miles Avg pace 7.56 (Avg HR 157)
The plan had 12 miles with 7 of these at LT. I wasn’t looking forward to this as had crappy day in work and almost bailed on it. The first three miles of the route home are uphill, so the intention was to start the 7 LT after these. The three were done a bit quicker than normal averaged about 8.15/8.20. I then couldn’t get the pace down under 8.00 so the session wasn’t going to plan, but then after 5 miles were completed I got the pace down to about 7.40. I didn’t quite sustain that that all the way but it only dropped about 10 secs per mile over the next few miles. I got carried away with myself then and said I’d tack on another 1.1 miles at the end at the same pace and see what kind of half time that would give me. Finished in 1.44 which is an unofficial PB by fifty odd seconds.
I had completed the Waterford half in Dec in 1.44.56. However that day my average HR was 175 and I really emptied the tank. Couldn’t have gone any faster or further. Whereas this run felt much more comfortable and the HR would indicate that. I could have gone faster (not much but definitely faster) or I could have continued for another mile or two at the same pace.
There’s probably another minute or two to come off the half time, and maybe some stage later in the year I might target 1.40 for the half. Something to aim for after Barca!
Think I need to be disciplined with today’s recovery run!

That's great running there! Don't forget to take away at least another minute off that time due to race-day situation with adrenalin and targeting runners ahead of you. I'd say you'll definitely hit the sub 1:40 later in the year!

Your progression run from 8:20/mile to consistent 7:40-ish miles probably helped you loads in getting that time also. I'm finally appreciating myself the value of starting out the first 10-20% of the run at a slightly easier pace which allows you to finish stronger and generally offers a better race finish time.

The_Boy_Wonder · 15-02-2012 10:22pm

Tue 14th - 5.5 mile recovery run @ 9.06. Legs heavy after previous evening pace. Not much more to say

Wed 15th 5.8 @ 8.24 recovery again but this one had 6 x 100 thrown in hence the pace being a bit quicker - also legs not quite as heavy. I really need to find somwhere to do strides where I can determine the 100m. At the moment I'm guessing based on electricity poles and how far apart I think they are.

Brianderunner · 15-02-2012 10:57pm

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

I really need to find somwhere to do strides where I can determine the 100m. At the moment I'm guessing based on electricity poles and how far apart I think they are.

Get onto mapmyrun.com, set it to sattelite view and zoom in as far as it goes and measure 100m based on local landmarks on your street.

I'd be inclined to do them at the end of the run, a couple of mins after the run finishes and use walk back recovery.

The_Boy_Wonder · 15-02-2012 11:06pm

Brianderunner wrote: »

Get onto mapmyrun.com, set it to sattelite view and zoom in as far as it goes and measure 100m based on local landmarks on your street.

I'd be inclined to do them at the end of the run, a couple of mins after the run finishes and use walk back recovery.

Good point. I had half thought of getting one 100m pretty much measured close to home, and do the walk back idea. The neighbours might think I'm crackers but hey if it works!:)

RayCun · 16-02-2012 9:54am

Doesn't have to be 100m anyway - 6 x 15 seconds of running is fine.

I'll have a BQ please Bob

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