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Quick Question on VRT

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  • 31-10-2014 4:59pm
    #1
    homingbird
    Registered Users Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭


    I was thinking if you import a car with no engine how do they charge you vrt. I was looking at the thread on importing a mustang from the usa. If the buyer had the engine removed & sent separate you turn up to the nct with your car on a trailer no engine would you get a lower rate you would have all the paperwork to show you imported the car with no engine.


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  • Options
    #2
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    homingbird wrote: »
    I was thinking if you import a car with no engine how do they charge you vrt. I was looking at the thread on importing a mustang from the usa. If the buyer had the engine removed & sent separate you turn up to the nct with your car on a trailer no engine would you get a lower rate you would have all the paperwork to show you imported the car with no engine.

    AFAIK it doesn't matter what condition the vehicle comes in the VRT is calculated on it being perfect.


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    #3
    mgbgt1978
    Registered Users Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    You can't VRT a non-runner AFAIK


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    #4
    Breffnigolfer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭Breffnigolfer


    homingbird wrote: »
    I was thinking if you import a car with no engine how do they charge you vrt. I was looking at the thread on importing a mustang from the usa. If the buyer had the engine removed & sent separate you turn up to the nct with your car on a trailer no engine would you get a lower rate you would have all the paperwork to show you imported the car with no engine.

    What you are proposing is illegal. As pointed out above, the NCTS people will not allow you VRT a non-running car. In any event, unless you could provide certification (from an approved body) of the emissions of the car, you would be lumped into the highest rate band.


  • Options
    #5
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    mgbgt1978 wrote: »
    You can't VRT a non-runner AFAIK

    So how does it work with requirement of VRTing within 30 days of imporing?

    If you import non-runner, you have only 30 days to repair the vehicle?
    What about people who import classic cars, which they are planning on restoring for few years, before it's ready?


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    #6
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Breffnigolfer wrote: »
    What you are proposing is illegal.
    Importing a car without engine is illegal? How come?


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    #7
    mgbgt1978
    Registered Users Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    CiniO wrote: »
    Importing a car without engine is illegal? How come?

    That's not quite what the OP suggested Cinio.......;)


  • Options
    #8
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    They will not VRT it until it is a viable car. You can't escape this way


  • Options
    #9
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    corktina wrote: »
    They will not VRT it until it is a viable car. You can't escape this way

    Does that mean that if you import a car without engine, it's not due VRT, as it's not viable car?


  • Options
    #10
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    mgbgt1978 wrote: »
    That's not quite what the OP suggested Cinio.......;)

    That's exactly what he suggested.
    I was thinking if you import a car with no engine how do they charge you vrt.

    Fact that he wants to import engine as well, is quite irrelevant.


  • Options
    #11
    mgbgt1978
    Registered Users Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    He didn't suggest it Cinio
    He asked how they charge VRT on a Shell. And he was answered
    He then went on to suggest that he could possibly add the engine to an already VRT'd car. And again he was answered.

    As for your other question, it has been said both here and on other forums that the 'official' explanation is that you can bring in a non-runner, restore it to a roadworthy condition and then bring it for inspection.
    Although this is not specifically mentioned on either the Revenue or NCT sites it is the answer they will give you if you enquire.
    Feel free to search for any references to this....I found loads.


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  • Options
    #12
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    CiniO wrote: »
    Does that mean that if you import a car without engine, it's not due VRT, as it's not viable car?

    quite correct, but you will have to pay VRT when you have got it ready for road (if at all)


  • Options
    #13
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,184 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    CiniO wrote: »
    Does that mean that if you import a car without engine, it's not due VRT, as it's not viable car?

    The obligation to register arises within 30 days of importation for a mechanically propelled vehicle which is defined in section 130 Finance Act 1992 (as amended in 2007) as

    “mechanically propelled vehicle” means a vehicle that –
    • (a) has been designed and constructed for road use,
    • (b) is, at the time of declaration for registration, in compliance with any measures taken to give effect in the State to any act of the European Communities relating to the approximation of the laws of Member States in respect of type-approval for the type of vehicle concerned,
    • (c) isintendedoradaptedforpropulsionbyamechanicalmeans,orbyanelectrical means or by a partly mechanical and a partly electrical means, and
    • (d) [is capable of achieving vehicle propulsion at the time of registration, to the satisfaction of the Commissioners,



    The collection of parts which is being discussed here is not a mechanically propelled vehcile at the point of importation. The clock does not start runnign at importation. Obviously, once it's rebuilt, it would need to be registered (meaning VRT paid) prior to taking it out on the road.


  • Options
    #14
    Breffnigolfer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭Breffnigolfer


    CiniO wrote: »
    Importing a car without engine is illegal? How come?

    It isn't and I never said it was.


    It's amazing how some people love to extract something that was never said in order to have a go at someone!


  • Options
    #15
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    I think what he was saying is that it would be illegal to avoid VRT in this way, I thought it was quite clear what he meant.


  • Options
    #16
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Breffnigolfer wrote: »
    It isn't and I never said it was.


    It's amazing how some people love to extract something that was never said in order to have a go at someone!

    Well, you said that what OP proposed was illegal.
    And I looked at OP's post and seen he proposed to import a car without engine, and import engine separately.
    I don't know how else could I understood that.


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    #17
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Well I just remember from the old days in Poland (before Poland joined EU) importing vehicles in parts was quite common.

    As there was horrendous customs duty on cars imported from EU, many importers, were bringing cars in bits - body work separately, engine separate, suspension separately.
    This allowed them to avoid paying customs duty on cars, as technically they weren't importing cars but just car parts.
    Then at home they would assemble car back together, and register it as "own assembled vehicle". So in registartion document, it wouldn't be f.e. honda civic, but "homemade vehicle".


  • Options
    #18
    mgbgt1978
    Registered Users Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    CiniO wrote: »
    That's exactly what he suggested.


    Fact that he wants to import engine as well, is quite irrelevant.
    CiniO wrote: »
    Well I just remember from the old days in Poland (before Poland joined EU) importing vehicles in parts was quite common.

    As there was horrendous customs duty on cars imported from EU, many importers, were bringing cars in bits - body work separately, engine separate, suspension separately.
    This allowed them to avoid paying customs duty on cars, as technically they weren't importing cars but just car parts.
    Then at home they would assemble car back together, and register it as "own assembled vehicle". So in registartion document, it wouldn't be f.e. honda civic, but "homemade vehicle".


    ....and this is relevant ????


  • Options
    #19
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    mgbgt1978 wrote: »





    ....and this is relevant ????

    No, not at all.
    Just wrote is as a little side story somehow related to the subject.
    Completely irrelevant.


  • Options
    #20
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    CiniO wrote: »
    Well, you said that what OP proposed was illegal.
    And I looked at OP's post and seen he proposed to import a car without engine, and import engine separately.
    I don't know how else could I understood that.

    "and re-install the engine to evade some or all of the VRT" the OP may as well have added. That's where it is illegal. Tax evasion


  • Options
    #21
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    homingbird wrote: »
    I was thinking if you import a car with no engine how do they charge you vrt. I was looking at the thread on importing a mustang from the usa. If the buyer had the engine removed & sent separate you turn up to the nct with your car on a trailer no engine would you get a lower rate you would have all the paperwork to show you imported the car with no engine.

    No, you get charged full rate as if it's a complete car - they closed this loophole years ago to stop people bringing in damaged repairables on the cheap vrt rate, and fixing them and flogging them on and making a killing. They now assess based in it's repaired or finished condition.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #22
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    corktina wrote: »
    I think what he was saying is that it would be illegal to avoid VRT in this way, I thought it was quite clear what he meant.

    ...except he couldn't avoid it, so that's a bit of a non - sequitur. .

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Options
    #23
    mgbgt1978
    Registered Users Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    galwaytt wrote: »
    No, you get charged full rate as if it's a complete car - they closed this loophole years ago to stop people bringing in damaged repairables on the cheap vrt rate, and fixing them and flogging them on and making a killing. They now assess based in it's repaired or finished condition.

    So what you're saying Galway is if I arrive on with a rolling shell they will VRT it. I was led to believe ( and neither the Revenue nor the NCT sites say otherwise) that you can only VRT a 'mechanically-propelled' vehicle....even the NCT say that the vehicle must be roadworthy.:confused:


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    #24
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,184 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    corktina wrote: »
    "and re-install the engine to evade some or all of the VRT" the OP may as well have added. That's where it is illegal. Tax evasion

    That would not be tax evasion but at worst an aggressive deferral and it certainly does not smack of illegality; when the engine is installed and the car is capable of propulsion, the liability to tax would arise and not before.


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    #25
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    corktina wrote: »
    "and re-install the engine to evade some or all of the VRT" the OP may as well have added. That's where it is illegal. Tax evasion

    Well, but it's clear now this can't be the case, as you can't VRT incomplete car.
    So nothing illegal in either bringing incomplete car, or engine separately.


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    #26
    mgbgt1978
    Registered Users Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    deleted....more or less what Cinio posted.


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    #27
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    CiniO wrote: »
    Well, but it's clear now this can't be the case, as you can't VRT incomplete car.
    So nothing illegal in either bringing incomplete car, or engine separately.
    Neither the other guy nor me said that it was! But we'll just say you are right and keep you happy eh!


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    #28
    homingbird
    Registered Users Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭homingbird


    To Clear it up you cant be charged tax ( vrt ) if you turn up at the nct with a non runner after import so it buys you time to put it on the road. How would this work if you bought a car near vintage & waited until it turned vintage . Its only 200 euro to vrt a vintage car or 1k up before hand.


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    #29
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    you didn't get the hang of "clear it up" yet , did you!


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    #30
    arthur daly
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭arthur daly


    Op I would be inclined to ring revenue and see what they say.


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    #31
    arthur daly
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭arthur daly


    Op I would be inclined to ring revenue and see what they say.


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