Do we really consider ourselves European?

Galwayguy20 · 28-08-2012 3:23pm

I'd consider myself both. Although I think there is great cultural variation within Europe, we probably still have a little more in common with each other than we have with, for example, the Indians or the Chinese.

smash · 28-08-2012 3:26pm

You don't hear Scottish people calling themselves British or Brazilians calling themselves South Americans so why would you call yourself European?

gimmick · 28-08-2012 3:27pm

I was in NY a few years ago. Got into a Taxi and the driver was Bulgarian.he greeted me like I was a neighbour. "So great to have someone from Europe in my car for a change". Bloody hell like.

karma_ · 28-08-2012 3:28pm

kfallon wrote: »

I am Irish, not European!

I'm fairly certain you're both.

Zebra3 · 28-08-2012 3:37pm

The only time in my life I ever felt European was the first time I was in the U.S.

Before that I'd always thought of us as being not too different from Americans being so familiar with their tv/movies and sharing a similar language.

But after about two days there I realised how much more I had in common with Europeans than Americans, but I still don't consider myself European.

Galwayguy20 · 28-08-2012 3:37pm

smash wrote: »

You don't hear Scottish people calling themselves British or Brazilians calling themselves South Americans so why would you call yourself European?

Yes you do...

smash · 28-08-2012 3:41pm

Galwayguy20 wrote: »

Yes you do...

Never heard them refer to themselves like that.

Galwayguy20 · 28-08-2012 3:47pm

smash wrote: »

Never heard them refer to themselves like that.

Well my uncle's father in law did (he's from Argentina), although maybe he was just trying to make it easier for us simple Irish folk to understand. :pac:

Sunnyisland · 28-08-2012 3:55pm

Consider myself Irish,The Portuguese Portuguese,The Italians Italians, The Spanish Spanish etc etc,The only time I have said I am from Europe was when explaining to some bloke in India where Ireland actually was.

Boombastic · 28-08-2012 3:56pm

Wee Wee, You're a peeing

Cienciano · 28-08-2012 4:00pm

You can be irish and european. It's that simple. I think everyone in continental europe would say they're german/french/dutch/etc and also european.

Are you from europe, yes or no?

dttq wrote: »

Regardless of whether or not we are in the EU, or using the euro, I sometimes get the feeling that we don't really consider ourselves to be European, and beyond the economic benefits of EU membership, we don't seem to hold the same cultural and emotional attachment towards the project that many continentals do. We often say things like going to Europe on holiday, or refer to "the Europeans" as if distinct from ourselves. Would it be correct to say, that beyond geography, we don't really consider ourselves to be Europeans in the same way that people in continental countries would.

I never heard anyone ever say they're going to "europe" on holiday except american teenage girls in movies. And even then, they go to "yerop"

MHalberstram · 28-08-2012 4:06pm

I think the language barriers make it difficult to identify with being European. Europe is not a country the way America is. We have yet to integrate our political and economic system the way it is in America.

I always felt odd when an American referred to me as European though. In fact I think Ireland is closer to the US & the UK culturally then it is to most of Europe.

I was in Germany recently with some Americans and felt as out of place as they did. They were looking to me for explanations about certain German things and I just had to respond with - "I'm Irish, this is as strange to me as it is to you. You'll have to ask a German"

However once I was in the company of some Germans who did speak English it was interesting to see the similarities. I was in a rural part of Bavaria, all farmland and it was funny to see how their family life and traditions were not unlike our own - especially when it came to drinking! Now obviously other parts of Germany might not compare as well so I think you'd find it hard to say - Irish people have a lot in common with Germans. It all depends on the context.

Maybe with a lot closer political and economic integration future generations may feel more European but given the balls they are making of the European project these days I'd say we have a long way to go and I'm not sure it will ever work given the bureaucratic mess that needs to be waded through to get there.

Randy Anders · 28-08-2012 4:07pm

Don't consider myself European at all

When I think of Europeans I think of nice summers, attractive females and healthy life style

When I think of Ireland I think of rainy, windy summers, big fat ginger women in clothes that are far too small for them and a junk food society

I wouldn't change it for the world though!

Fromthetrees · 28-08-2012 4:09pm

I'm far too gorgeous to consider myself Irish with my fine foxy comb over, my sexy obese gut, my alluring toothless smile, my captivating large growth on the left side of my head, my spectacularly amazing claw hand and my limp would make you gaze in awe struck jealousy.

I consider myself a creation of the gods and nothing less, I said nothing less.

Solair · 28-08-2012 4:14pm

I think this notion of having to trade our own national identity for a European one is nonsense though and I don't think many people at the EU actually intend it that way either.

What I notice a lot is that some very pro-European federalist will get quoted from a parliamentary debate or comment as if it were EU policy.

Ireland is "a European country". I think that's pretty much as far as anyone's European identity goes.

We are a group of countries that share a lot of history and cultural values and have reached a sort of common consensus on running our societies on a range of social-democratic models that have a lot of similarities.

The main purpose of the EU, and I think it's one that gets forgotten a lot, was to connect the countries so tightly together that they couldn't have wars.

Europe had been an absolute hell hole in terms of wars. They were endless and went on for centuries culminating in a situation where we came close enough to wiping ourselves off the map in the 1940s. Remember that for Eastern European countries, the effects of WWII only really ended a few years ago when they finally got out from behind the Iron Curtain!

Personally, I'm quite pro-European in the sense that we need to cooperate, especially in a world where we are going to have to compete and possibly even face-up to superpower dictatorships like China and all sorts of external threats.

I think in general Europeans do share a common vision of aiming for some kind of a liberal democratic society with good social supports. That's something that really is quite different from the US in many respects.

I just think we need to be careful that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater by getting into meaningless debates about European vs National identity or painting the EU as some kind of crazy centralised dictatorship.

The reality is the EU's a bit of a slow-moving mess that governs itself by consensus politics and tends to lurch from crisis to crisis.

The markets hate it because it's very slow about making decisions.

However, I think we just have to accept that maybe being "European" is about that. It's just a big messy, multi-lingual, diverse, somewhat socialist-leaning cludge of countries. The EU doesn't always get it right all the time, and it can be very slow to make decisions, but that's just how Europe works.

It's more like a bunch of people in a classroom trying to get along rather than a family and it's definteily not a dictatorship/command economy like China or a powerful executive like the US.

It takes a hell of a lot of referenda, horse trading, dinners, chats, discussions, debates, arguments, storming off, huffing, puffing and moaning before the EU moves on anything ever!

There's no risk of it declaring war on anyone

Yugioh · 28-08-2012 4:15pm

Of course we're European.

We have hundreds of years of shared European history that shaped what being Irish actually is!

Our monks setting up monasteries all around Europe, the French came to help us against the English, the Scandinavian Vikings set up half our cities, we have a shared gene pool with Northern Spain, our Celtic history/culture came from Europe.

Take away European aspects away from Ireland and we have nothing left.

VictorRomeo · 28-08-2012 4:18pm

karma_ wrote: »

I'm fairly certain you're both.

Indeed. Look at the cover of your passport.....

Solair · 28-08-2012 4:32pm

Actually, from an Irish context one of the most important things the EU has achieved is making the border not matter.

I know we also have the Common Travel Area, but the EU removed all the trade barriers and did a hell of a lot for cross-border cooperation.

A few decades ago we'd all sorts of customs and craziness and people doing their weekly shopping in their local town across the border being called smugglers !

It's made cross-border businesses, and all sorts of other things possible that would never have been achievable under just UK-Ireland bilateral arrangements. The CTA doesn't provide for any of that, all it does is provide freedom of movement.

Not to mention quite a few decisions by the European courts which were major wake up calls to the UK in terms of Northern Ireland and major wake up calls to the UK and Republic of Ireland Govts on other issues.

csi vegas · 28-08-2012 7:28pm

I too hold the same opinion as OP.

European? Me? Never! I'm Irish, not one of 'them'. I don't say this in a negative way though.

I envy them with their two fluently spoken languages, their wonderful historical cities and buildings, their outdoorsy café culture, how they make time for one another (it's just lovely to see the senior folk sit out yappin' on a wall all night) and their effortless ability to just cross a border to visit another country for the weekend.
Even the 'new' Europeans are more 'European' than us and they proudly display their heritage in ways in which we never will.
Maybe I think like this because we are but an island, a fairly isolated one at that at times.

Sure we have a bit of history but we were never meant to have a modern future, not with the leadership we voted for and the rules and laws we were and will continue to be submissive to.
While the Irish got 'rich' on property flipping, the Germans returned home from holidays to their rented flats.
For us it was like 'give the beggar a donkey and he'll ride it like a racehorse'. It was all false and right now and for my lifetime anyway we won't be making history, no great changes will be made and nobody will look back in 100 years time and think 'what an amazing race the Irish were, to fight the oppression in solidarity with the Greeks' and 'they are to be much admired as the descendents of their 1916 founders'.
The truth is that the most European thing about us now, in 2012, is Dublin Airport.

Apart from exporting a bit of wheat, meat and a few potatoes, what is MADE here? What international stores do we own?
There aren't many home-grown Irish multinationals propping up the streets of Paris, are they?

If anything we have further alienated ourselves from the continent.
We have little respect left in Europe and if we leave the Euro/get booted out we may as well rename ouselves Far Western Republic of Palestine.
Ireland's governance doesn't think like Europe, it is led and almost entirely funded by it.

Solair · 28-08-2012 7:53pm

You've a funny view of Europe that's all I'll say !

You've kind of described rural Southern Italy (awl wans chatting all night on a wall).

Then, assumed that no other European country has a monumentally screwed up banking sector + property collapse.

The pretty much all do.

The view of Ireland on the continent at the moment is extremely positive STILL and the perception is very much that we had a banking screw-up and will get over it. The view of Greece is extremely negative however.

Not everyone in Europe speaks two languages fluently.
Countries that speak big languages with international scope and large media contents i.e. English, Spanish and French tend to be quite poor at second languages.

German-speakers are a bit better because they've a much more limited creative media and no imperial links.

Small countries that speak weird languages tend to have to use all their neighboring languages.

If you're somewhere like Denmark or Holland you pretty much have to speak another language, usually English and possibly German or you're really restricting yourself.

One thing that Ireland manages to do in an amazing way is to sink into self-hating depression, certainly on these kinds of forums anyway.

Colmustard · 28-08-2012 7:53pm

I am closer to London then I am to Berlin.

wp_rathead · 28-08-2012 8:01pm

I'm European during the Ryder Cup

HavingCrack · 28-08-2012 8:08pm

Solair wrote: »

Not everyone in Europe speaks two languages fluently.
Countries that speak big languages with international scope and large media contents i.e. English, Spanish and French tend to be quite poor at second languages.

German-speakers are a bit better because they've a much more limited creative media and no empirical links.

Small countries that speak weird languages tend to have to use all their neighboring languages.

If you're somewhere like Denmark or Holland you pretty much have to speak another language, usually English and possibly German or you're really restricting yourself.

This is very true actually. Very few Italians speak a 2nd language, likewise in Greece and Portugal and a lot of Eastern Europe. They might have a few phrases but they're about as fluent as most Irish people are in French or German. Spain is a little better

Eve_Dublin · 28-08-2012 8:48pm

HavingCrack wrote: »

This is very true actually. Very few Italians speak a 2nd language, likewise in Greece and Portugal and a lot of Eastern Europe. They might have a few phrases but they're about as fluent as most Irish people are in French or German. Spain is a little better

Portuguese have phenomenal English...better than all other Latin countries combined. Italians are better at English than the Spanish. it was published in a Spanish paper a few months ago that they were the worst English speakers in Europe while Italy came a close second last.

sweeney1971 · 28-08-2012 8:48pm

What about all those people who gave their lives for Irish Independence from England would say about giving power and identity away to 26 other Countries?

EU= New World Order

Biggins · 28-08-2012 8:53pm

I am one with the planet, I'm a Gian!

MHalberstram · 28-08-2012 9:07pm

sweeney1971 wrote: »

What about all those people who gave their lives for Irish Independence from England would say about giving power and identity away to 26 other Countries?

EU= New World Order

The EU is not the World. Paranoid garbage.

KenSwee · 28-08-2012 9:13pm

Europe first, Irishman second. Proud to be both. Would pick it any day over anywhere else. Europe is the best part of the world.

sweeney1971 · 28-08-2012 9:14pm

MHalberstram wrote: »

The EU is not the World. Paranoid garbage.

You need to travel more my friend and open your eyes. The EU tells member countries what they can and cannot do, take rights and law's away from Countries. Look at the UK, a dumping ground for Europes unwanted and Asylum Seekers, what happens when the UK is full? All the EU's rubbish comes here.
Wake up and smell the Roses.

poeticseraphim · 28-08-2012 9:15pm

Generally when i travel i find the Europeans do not consider Irish people European at all.

In Belgiam i was told a Swede is European , a Spaniard is european , a German is european maybe even a British person is european...you are not you are Irish.

Infact we are seen as exotic and unknown and free from a lot of the baggage associated with the EU and other nations as not much is known about us.

Infact when they mention PIIGS we are never mentioned in terms of the financial crisis ....it's like oh the Irish sorted all that out now right?

Strangely none of those countries refered to as truly European consider themselves to be Europeans.

By the way i think European just means white.

Maybe smaller countries like the idea of tugging the coat tails.

I have no idea if I am European.....

Oh wait i use my knife and fork the right way!

Do we really consider ourselves European?

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