[Jim Martin]

I think it's very important to keep Ireland GM free as, being on the edge of Europe and with clean Atlantic air, it is vital to have a sanctuary where, if/when things go belly-up with GM, their is an organic source to repair any damage!

[djpbarry]

Originally Posted by Jim Martin

I think it's very important to keep Ireland GM free as, being on the edge of Europe and with clean Atlantic air, it is vital to have a sanctuary where, if/when things go belly-up with GM, their is an organic source to repair any damage!

And if things don't go "belly up"?

[norrie rugger]

Originally Posted by djpbarry

And if things don't go "belly up"?

Then we are left playing catch up.

Also the seed bank will have "pure" supplies of all our crop seeds. I love than no one can actually give disadvantages of GM.

[Jim Martin]

Originally Posted by djpbarry

And if things don't go "belly up"?

We have to have some kind of insurance (back-up) in case they do!

[Conflats]

Originally Posted by Jim Martin

We have to have some kind of insurance (back-up) in case they do!

Is that not why they have a large seed reference collection in norway, also the national botnical gardens have one along with the department of agriculture, along with many many breeding companies. Also who said that gm crops would be the only crops grown? its a unlikely scenario that they would become dominant with 100% monoculture

[Judgement Day]

Originally Posted by norrie rugger

Then we are left playing catch up.

Also the seed bank will have "pure" supplies of all our crop seeds. I love than no one can actually give disadvantages of GM.

Here's a few for you - but I'm sure that you will be able to dismiss them all.

Disadvantages of Genetically Modified Food

Changing plants may have lasting effects on other organisms in the ecosystem. The change in a plant may cause it to be toxic to an insect or animal that uses it as its main food source.

Due to the widespread use of insect resistant genes in crops the insects may become resistant to the genetic modifications. This would cause a widespread loss of crops and plants that have the natural immunity leading to a loss in biodiversity.

Breeding and cross pollination across unintended species could occur resulting in things such as insect resistant weeds.

Cross pollination can also occur across crops that are not genetically modified leading to lawsuits about who owns the GM technology and seed. The same thing can happen between organic crops and genetically modified crops making it difficult to maintain an organic status.

A huge concern is that genetic modification could cause allergies in humans due to gene modification of plants. People may find that they are now allergic to other food products – people because they contain a gene from the allergen they have. One example is the use of a Brazilian nut gene in corn.
Some studies have shown that it may affect the human digestive system in a number of ways. The incorporation of substances that may interact badly with one another in food or in fact be poisonous to people may happen. The modification of certain genes may make some plant substances difficult to digest at all.

A major economical concern is that the control of world food sources may be limited to large companies because they own the GM seeds and have the money to start and finish the accreditation process.

Genetic modification can also make it difficult to know what you are eating, as a plant could contain animals products via genetic engineering. This could cause issues for those with dietary restrictions and religious commitments.

http://wanttoknowit.com/disadvantage...modified-food/

I could throw in some of my own but why bother.

[norrie rugger]

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Here's a few for you - but I'm sure that you will be able to dismiss them all.

Disadvantages of Genetically Modified Food

Changing plants may have lasting effects on other organisms in the ecosystem. The change in a plant may cause it to be toxic to an insect or animal that uses it as its main food source. Examples please?

Due to the widespread use of insect resistant genes in crops the insects may become resistant to the genetic modifications. This would cause a widespread loss of crops and plants that have the natural immunity leading to a loss in biodiversity. Examples please?


Breeding and cross pollination across unintended species could occur resulting in things such as insect resistant weeds. basically natural genetic resequancing that can happen anyway oh and Examples please?


Cross pollination can also occur across crops that are not genetically modified leading to lawsuits about who owns the GM technology and seed. The same thing can happen between organic crops and genetically modified crops making it difficult to maintain an organic status. This is business and law issues nothing to do with GM itself

A huge concern is that genetic modification could cause allergies in humans due to gene modification of plants. People may find that they are now allergic to other food products – people because they contain a gene from the allergen they have. One example is the use of a Brazilian nut gene in corn.
Some studies have shown that it may affect the human digestive system in a number of ways. The incorporation of substances that may interact badly with one another in food or in fact be poisonous to people may happen. The modification of certain genes may make some plant substances difficult to digest at all. links to the study would be great? People develop allergies all the time. I only started getting hayfever this year. Any mutation in the plant could cause this, not just GM



A major economical concern is that the control of world food sources may be limited to large companies because they own the GM seeds and have the money to start and finish the accreditation process. Nothing stops people using traditional seeds


Genetic modification can also make it difficult to know what you are eating, as a plant could contain animals products via genetic engineering. This could cause issues for those with dietary restrictions and religious commitments.
Is there anything to back this up??

http://wanttoknowit.com/disadvantage...modified-food/ This webiste just randomly throws out "facts" without any references

I could throw in some of my own but why bother.

Seems a bit like scaremongering TBF

[Conflats]

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Here's a few for you - but I'm sure that you will be able to dismiss them all.

Disadvantages of Genetically Modified Food

Changing plants may have lasting effects on other organisms in the ecosystem. The change in a plant may cause it to be toxic to an insect or animal that uses it as its main food source.

Due to the widespread use of insect resistant genes in crops the insects may become resistant to the genetic modifications. This would cause a widespread loss of crops and plants that have the natural immunity leading to a loss in biodiversity.

Breeding and cross pollination across unintended species could occur resulting in things such as insect resistant weeds.

Cross pollination can also occur across crops that are not genetically modified leading to lawsuits about who owns the GM technology and seed. The same thing can happen between organic crops and genetically modified crops making it difficult to maintain an organic status.

A huge concern is that genetic modification could cause allergies in humans due to gene modification of plants. People may find that they are now allergic to other food products – people because they contain a gene from the allergen they have. One example is the use of a Brazilian nut gene in corn.
Some studies have shown that it may affect the human digestive system in a number of ways. The incorporation of substances that may interact badly with one another in food or in fact be poisonous to people may happen. The modification of certain genes may make some plant substances difficult to digest at all.

A major economical concern is that the control of world food sources may be limited to large companies because they own the GM seeds and have the money to start and finish the accreditation process.

Genetic modification can also make it difficult to know what you are eating, as a plant could contain animals products via genetic engineering. This could cause issues for those with dietary restrictions and religious commitments.

http://wanttoknowit.com/disadvantage...modified-food/

I could throw in some of my own but why bother.

That slice of bread you had this today is not from a naturally occurring plant wheat is a cross of 3 different plants http://www.pitt.edu/~super1/lecture/lec35631/009.htm here's a lecture from a respected scientist in the area of molecular biology,

The arguments you have put forward on cross pollination contradicts a point you made on ownership of seed, the reason why gm crops are sterile are due to the point of no cross pollination will occurr

[Judgement Day]

How do you know what type of bread I ate today? Anyway there's some difference between selective breeding of different species of wheat and GM but, as I say, there's no point in arguing with people who have all the answers. Last post on this thread in Anti-Sustainable & Environmental Forum.

[Helix]

Originally Posted by Red Neck Hughie

Using electron microscopes is probably a new thing though and definitely not natural.

nothing in the universe is unnatural. anything that occurs within the laws of physics, chemistry and biology is natural. that includes humans creating technology, and using that technology to do whatever it's capable of

[djpbarry]

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Here's a few for you - but I'm sure that you will be able to dismiss them all.

There’s a difference between dismissing something and questioning it.

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Changing plants may have lasting effects on other organisms in the ecosystem. The change in a plant may cause it to be toxic to an insect or animal that uses it as its main food source.

I'll start by questioning this. Considering that mankind has been “changing” plants since the advent of agriculture, how many cases of the above have ever been recorded?

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Anyway there's some difference between selective breeding of different species of wheat and GM...

There is obviously a difference, but the desired outcome is the same, is it not?

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

...but, as I say, there's no point in arguing with people who have all the answers. Last post on this thread in Anti-Sustainable & Environmental Forum.

Suit yourself. But if everyone accepted without question anything that was posted on this site, the quality of discussion would be pretty darn low.

[Conflats]

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

How do you know what type of bread I ate today? Anyway there's some difference between selective breeding of different species of wheat and GM but, as I say, there's no point in arguing with people who have all the answers. Last post on this thread in Anti-Sustainable & Environmental Forum.

Ok so to specify for you to make it clear it was bread made from wheat i was talking about

[Mark Hamill]

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Disadvantages of Genetically Modified Food

Changing plants may have lasting effects on other organisms in the ecosystem. The change in a plant may cause it to be toxic to an insect or animal that uses it as its main food source.

This can happen anyway. We have been doing this for centuries, do you think bananas are naturally yellow (they're green) or carrots naturally orange (many different colours possible)? Thats just in terms of appearance, but we have been crossbreeding plants to improve yield and pest resistance too.

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Due to the widespread use of insect resistant genes in crops the insects may become resistant to the genetic modifications. This would cause a widespread loss of crops and plants that have the natural immunity leading to a loss in biodiversity.

This can happen anyway. Insects can become immune to plants with natural resistant genes anyway, the process is much the same to the insect regardless of whether they are encountering naturally resistant crops or GM crops.

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Breeding and cross pollination across unintended species could occur resulting in things such as insect resistant weeds.

This can happen anyway. Except with GM crops we can actually modify the plants so they crossbreed less and reduce this.

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Cross pollination can also occur across crops that are not genetically modified leading to lawsuits about who owns the GM technology and seed. The same thing can happen between organic crops and genetically modified crops making it difficult to maintain an organic status.

Again, we can modify the crops so this wont happen. Its also a legal issue rather than a scientific one.

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

A huge concern is that genetic modification could cause allergies in humans due to gene modification of plants. People may find that they are now allergic to other food products – people because they contain a gene from the allergen they have. One example is the use of a Brazilian nut gene in corn.
Some studies have shown that it may affect the human digestive system in a number of ways. The incorporation of substances that may interact badly with one another in food or in fact be poisonous to people may happen. The modification of certain genes may make some plant substances difficult to digest at all.

All of which just means that a) crops should be labelled clearly so we know where their new genes come from and b) testing is done to determine if allergies can be induced by specific gene transfer. I feel though, that the argument based on peanut allergies is a bit of scaremonger. Its only certain chemicals in nuts that give rise to allergies (three or so specific chemicals, if I remember). Genes are specific chemical parts of nuts, but the allergy causing chemicals and the useful genetic chemicals aren't necessarily the same chemical. Its still an important point to remember and test, but I thinks its a bit of an over simplification.

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

A major economical concern is that the control of world food sources may be limited to large companies because they own the GM seeds and have the money to start and finish the accreditation process.

Organic farms have never stopped people having vegetable patches in their back gardens.

Originally Posted by Judgement Day

Genetic modification can also make it difficult to know what you are eating, as a plant could contain animals products via genetic engineering. This could cause issues for those with dietary restrictions and religious commitments.

Again, this is just a case for clear labelling, which I do support (I am vegetarian). However, this issue isn't restricted to gm foods, many non-gm foods contain animal products that you wouldn't expect (many sweets aren't vegetarian because they contain pork/beef byproducts or crushed insects as colouring).

I get the feeling you think organic crops don't use pesticides or weed killers?