Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Nutrition 101

Options
13567

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭rocky


    slim to none.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭Renn


    Is the Kitava diet not extremely high in carbs?


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    Renn wrote: »
    Is the Kitava diet not extremely high in carbs?

    Indeed it is, 70% carbs to be exact. Mostly from a type of (very high GI) potato, fruit and coconut. Carbs, even high glycemic index ones are not a problem if you're active and in very good health. Unfortunately nowadays a lot of people don't fall into that category, but I do believe a lot of people are able to regain their carbohydrate tolerance, I count myself as one (though I keep it to around 25-35% of calories as I believe fatty foods are a far superior source of nutrition in general).

    The Kitavan diet is also really low in grain lectins, omega 6 and refined sugar and very rich in vitamins, minerals and healthy bacteria. Same as every other healthy traditional culture.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 104 ✭✭Zippidy


    Simple and Complex carbohydrates



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭JamJamJamJam


    Please, tell me where this falls down. I'm genuinely looking for a key flaw that I can't find.


    Okay so there's a whole load of bad press surrounding saturated fat and cholesterol. It is claimed that they're the cause of various issues including heart disease, strokes and obesity. This might sound like some crack-pot conspiracy theory at times but bear with me.

    Righteo,
    Just in case anybody is unsure, saturated fat is basically the solid stuff - the fatty part of a steak is largely saturated fat, as is lard. Also, cholesterol is a tiny biomolecule involved in several super-duper important processes such as the formation of certain hormones and of vitamin D. It is found most prominently in foods like red meat and eggs.

    I can understand how the idea sits nicely in people's minds. Just the simple look of saturated fat conjures thoughts of artery-clogged mayhem. When it is suggested to people that fat is in fact unhealthy, people accept this. They're comfortable with the idea, and it seems to make sense.
    However, simply enough, we often forget that fats are digested in the intestine into small parts.

    So point number 1 to remember is that the butter you might have layered onto your bread this morning is not simply seeping straight into your blood vessels as it is. Don't despair just yet! [Disclaimer! :p Most people probably recognise this once they give it some thought, and I don't mean to sound condescending or anything. I know people aren't stupid!:)] Furthermore, cholesterol molecules are even carried around in special little containers called lipoproteins. These are like delivery vans, and they carry cholesterol from place to place in your body.

    (I want to summarise the ideas without exploring each too extensively. I tend to just keep typing, but I'll try my best to keep the rest of my points shorter.... :rolleyes: )

    The whole suggestion that cholesterol is the cause of heart disease began to spread from the 1950s. A little while later a scientist named Ancel Keyes published a 7 Countries Study, where data from 7 countries could be placed on a graph in order of increasing cholesterol consumption and, wouldn't you know it, showed a correlation between cholesterol intake and heart disease. It eventually got Keyes' face on Time magazine. Nice.
    However, when available data from 22-27 (I can't remember the exact number) countries was graphed, there was no correlation. At all.
    Here are some nice graphs about the topic:
    http://www.innatebodybootcamp.com/fat-is-not-your-enemy/
    There have been several other studies which have attempted to find the correlation between saturated fat and/or dietary cholesterol and heart disease. A common conclusion is that the scientists are 'disappointed' they haven't found more compelling evidence, ignoring what the results scream: there is no negative correlation!

    [Note to self: be more brief! :pac:]


    Some interesting thoughts:
    • Excess carbohydrates are stored as saturated fat in the body. Firstly, other than being more calorie dense, why would our bodies, with their 100,000 years of evolution (and that's just as homosapiens) do something that kills us? Secondly, when we exercise and 'lose weight' we are actually burning this fat, which is effectively the same thing as eating it. Nobody is suggesting that it's unhealthy to lose weight. Why suggest that eating equivalent amounts of saturated fat is so deadly?
    • The Maasai tribe in Kenya traditionally eat almost exclusively (bovine) meat, milk and blood. First of all, I'd hate to be one of their cows! Secondly (from Wikipedia, cited), "Electrocardiogram tests applied to 400 young adult male Maasai found no evidence whatsoever of heart disease, abnormalities or malfunction."
    • We often hear that eating more than 1 egg a day is very unhealthy (or variations on that idea). This is because eggs contain a considerable amount of cholesterol. So it would seem that eating an egg will raise cholesterol levels. However, our livers are great. The liver actually compromises for dietary cholesterol by reducing the amount of cholesterol that it produces itself. So dietary cholesterol goes up, naturally produced cholesterol goes down (and vice versa).
    • Not that a high cholesterol level is necessarily a bad thing. As I mentioned wayyy up at the top, there are many functions for cholesterol. It appears to me that if we take away the 'tools' to carry out these tasks (i.e. if we lower cholesterol levels), the tasks will be done less efficiently. That's not good. Proponents of low cholesterol levels argue that when heart attack sufferers are examined, the plaque build up contains high amounts of cholesterol. But wait! Cholesterol is merely attempting to help treat a damaged area of the artery. It's like blaming a band-aid for causing a cut.
    • So what does cause this damage to arteries? Basically sugar goes into the blood stream and is toxic at too high levels. Eating too much sugar obviously results in high blood sugar levels. This contributes to the inflammation which ultimately results in the formation of an atherosclerotic plaque (now, there's a big word :rolleyes:). Additionally, there are man-made abominations called trans fats/Hydrogenated fats. These are made from polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats (generally considered 'good'). Margerine contains hydrogenated fats. I won't even get started on the flaws in margerine, however because they are not natural, our body's can't digest them effectively. They should be avoided. I would assume that there are some other contributors to inflammation, but admittedly I can't say I know them.
    • As far as I'm aware, there are very few theories (physiologically based, as opposed to statistical) which give any worthwhile explanation of how saturated fat causes heart disease. This, combined with widespread failure of any study to determine a positive statistical correlation between saturated fat intake and heart disease, basically point directly to the idea that, maybe, just maybe, there is no link worth considering.
    • Humans have been eating large quantities of saturated fats and cholesterol for thousands upon thousands of years. Heart disease has developed most substantially in the past 100.
    • The part that sounds most like a nutty conspiracy theory, but makes sense: the anti-saturated-fat industry, as well as the statin industry are huge. They have millions to spend on advertising, and promotion of their low fat and low cholesterol ideals is everywhere. I have two points: firstly, think of how often we see adverts for a butter substitute or a low fat yogurt. This subconsciously reinforces the idea in our minds that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad. Think how much less we'd be exposed to the topic without these spreads and their advertisements. My suggestions wouldn't sound so strange, and people wouldn't look at me as though I have two heads when I make these points. I'll also add that big pharmaceutical companies will fund studies to support their product. A: Scientists are going to want to please the companies, as they're paying them. This is an incentive to favour one set of conclusions over another. B: It can be difficult to find funding for examination of the entire credibility of the anti-choloesterol/sat. fat hypothesis.
    That should do for the moment!

    - I know it becomes a little bit more complicated with cholesterol, where lipoproteins are claimed to be the real problem, and that divides further into LDL, HDL, etc. I have used 'cholesterol' to refer to these, and I think the points I made should remain valid.

    - This doesn't mean we should all rush out to MacDonald's. The quality of your food is still uber important. I'm talking about a good quality steak and foods of that standard.

    - If you've read this far, thank you! In the big picture, the argument I've outlined above seems pretty sound to me. I'd love to know for sure, so if you can confirm or deny, that'd be fantastic! I'm in sixth year and all going to plan I'll get to do medicine next year. Maybe that'll put me in a position to find out, some day... :rolleyes:



    MORE!
    A Handful of Web Pages:
    http://foodfithealth.com/blog/truth-saturated-fat/
    http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/saturated-fat.html
    http://www.innatebodybootcamp.com/fat-is-not-your-enemy/ (this is linked in the post too :))
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-are-trans-fats-bad/
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/saturated-fat-healthy/
    (A quick Googling of 'saturated fat is healthy' or 'truth about cholesterol' should yield various websites discussing these ideas)

    Books:
    The Great Cholesterol Con - Dr. Malcolm Kendrick MD (This looks at a heap of studies done on the topic)
    Good Calories Bad Calories - Gary Taubes (Kind of focuses on carbs, but it's good to learn about that too!:))


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭Frogdog


    JamJamJamJam, if there's a better post on boards, I've yet to read it!

    I hope you don't mind, but I copied it and sent it on to my parents by email, who believe what the local GP has told them - that the reason they have high cholestorol is because of excess fat in their diet, and has suggested they switch to the likes of Flora (over butter) and those Benecol drinks to lower their cholestorol. :rolleyes::mad::(:eek:confused: <---I'm all those emotions rolled into one when I hear of doctors giving nutritional advice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    This is a fantastic thread, it's great resource for anyone trying to make healthier choices in their diet.

    Was hoping if anyone could give me some tips on how to beat late evening carbo cravings. I've become very sedantry and as a result have piled on the weight. I'm taking stepts to tackle this now, starting to excercise and hope to increase my fitness and the amount of excercise i do as a result.Gave up smoking three weeks ago, too.

    Heres my big problem: My diet is very good during the day. Porridge, wholemeal breads, fruit and vegs, lean meats. but come 9 oclock in the evening i get major sugar cravings. It's not hunger, my tummy could feel quite full, and it's not a comfort eating thing either. These are physical cravings. I feel physically weak and my body just wants it's sugar/simple carbs. Then all my good work goes out the window.

    This evening, during my walk, I had to cut it short and come home because I started to feel as though my blood sugar had dropped into my boots and i thought i was gonna faint. I didnt go for the easy option when i returned, i had a small bowl of porridge instead of the usual bikkies and that seemed to sort the problem. Yet, come 10 o'clock the carb cravings came back, despite having a full tummy from the porridge. i'm begining to worry about what damage i've done to my pancreas at this stage.

    Are there any foods that I could be eating during the day to lessen the intensity of these cravings? Will they pass in time if i manage to keep away from sugary stuff? What kind of time frame should i give it before they should start to ease off? I'm worried I'm on my way to type 2 diabetes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,851 ✭✭✭Glowing


    Sardonicat, try a cup of green tea when you get those cravings.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 browncup


    Its great to know an avacado has more fibre than porridge


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 LaLibertine


    Hope I'm posting in the right place, didn't want to start a whole thread of my own just in case :confused:

    Basically calling any experts of the old Weight Watchers points system, not the new ProPoints system! I've decided to have a go at doing Weight Watchers at home, times be hard and I can't afford to go to meetings every week! Not trying to lose a lot of weight, just want to give eating in structured moderation a go!

    Anyway, since I haven't got an official points booklet, I looked up sites online that have lists of points, and the more I looked at, the more confused I became. Different websites list the same food item, but gives different points for said item. I'll use McDonalds as an example as it will have most of the same items on the one page....

    This lady from the UK goes on the old points system and lists McDonald's points as such:
    http://ukladyluck1.piczo.com/mcdonalds?cr=5&linkvar=000044

    This American site shows both points and pro points but there in a significant difference in the number of points of some items (eg UK lady lists Big Mac as 9.5 points, this site lists it as 13):
    http://onemorepound.com/2010/12/12/mcdonalds-menu-weight-watchers-points-values/

    Which site would be more likely to more accurate, in any old points WW users opinion? The American site is very detailed but has a lot of restaurants in the eating out section that aren't in Ireland, could anyone recommend an eating out list that has pretty generic lists like Italian, Mexican, Chinese, chippers etc as well as the usual McDonalds, KFC suspects?

    Any help or advice would be appreciated! :)


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Theodore Better Pension


    Any help or advice would be appreciated! :)

    Ignore completely the WW points system and spend 2/3 hours reading this thread and many others in this forum on how to make educated nutrition choices yourself. You will benefit enormously from understanding what you should be eating and why, and you will realise that oversimplifying foods into "points" is beyong bull****.

    WW most effective way of producing weightloss is essentially the peer pressure aspect of it, people end up fasting and being a bit more concious of overeating because they realise that they'll be "facing the faces" the next week at the weigh in. If you are not doing the public shame and guilt part of WW, then I simply think it's insane to follow their programme which is actually a poor reflection of a balanced and nutritional diet.

    Your post is well written and thought out, I'd imagine you would take to the essentials of proper nutrition very very easily.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 LaLibertine


    Sincere thanks for your advice. :)

    I thought Weight Watchers might be the way to go because I was looking for something quite structured, with guidelines etc, that would leave very little room for me to go off track.

    Figured I wouldn't be very successful going at it just on my own initiative because I didn't know where to start and definitely will need inspiration regarding meal plans etc, but will take your advice and read through this thread as soon as I can!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭tatabubbly


    Any good tips to help reduce the amount of carbs in a diet??

    I eat a whooful amount of carbs. eg. what could i substitute say potatoes with for a normal dinner??? Beans? Lentils??

    Help :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭rocky


    If you want to replace carbs, eliminate bread and other grain-based food for starters, leave the potatoes alone :). Otherwise I think the 'theory' is that you should up the fat, i.e. put some extra butter on that steak!


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Theodore Better Pension


    tatabubbly wrote: »
    Any good tips to help reduce the amount of carbs in a diet??

    I eat a whooful amount of carbs. eg. what could i substitute say potatoes with for a normal dinner??? Beans? Lentils??

    Help :P

    Vegetables. Abuse them. Brocolli and Cauliflower are your new heroes. Throw a lump of butter onto them and mash them up, or grate some cheese and whip it around in a bowl. You'll struggle to ever overeat on good vegetables, and you'll get better at cooking as you learn how to change it up.

    http://leetsstreet.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/paleoplate.jpg


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    rocky wrote: »
    If you want to replace carbs, eliminate bread and other grain-based food for starters, leave the potatoes alone :). Otherwise I think the 'theory' is that you should up the fat, i.e. put some extra butter on that steak!

    I doth you 'Rocky, the defender of the spud'!:)

    In seriousness I agree with both answers, in a prototypical low carb diet you'd go the no-starchy vegetable route, you can blend cauliflower to taste like mashed potato (well sort of..)

    If you just want to moderate spuds, eat them baked, plain, with nothing on them. I bet you'd struggle to get past one in that case.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭tatabubbly


    I never really eat potatoes with stuff with them, say i'd eat maybe potatoes, maybe chicken, peas and carrots (typical irish diet). I know carbs are good and bad, i just wanna cut some of them down!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    I doth you 'Rocky, the defender of the spud'!:)

    In seriousness I agree with both answers, in a prototypical low carb diet you'd go the no-starchy vegetable route, you can blend cauliflower to taste like mashed potato (well sort of..)

    If you just want to moderate spuds, eat them baked, plain, with nothing on them. I bet you'd struggle to get past one in that case.

    I thought I read somewhere potatoes contain lectins and saponins which are pretty bad for you as far as I'm aware.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    I thought I read somewhere potatoes contain lectins and saponins which are pretty bad for you as far as I'm aware.

    No more than most vegetables. All veggies contain horrific sounding chemicals that if you took in a high dose would kill you pretty quickly, we call these polyphenols etc. and in low doses they are highly beneficial.

    Honestly if you looked into it you'd never eat anything. In fact, some forms of cassava root (tapioca) will kill you unless painstakingly prepared to remove the highly potent toxins first.

    Potatoes have been subject to selective breeding pressure by humans to be less and less toxic, they are probably one of the least toxic tubers in the world.

    If your still concerned, don't eat the skin, that's where 99% of the saponins are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭MaxPower89


    I am currently eating about 8 fried (in sunflower oil) eggs per week. Usually in twos on toasted brown bread. I eat them in the morning and do weight training then at lunch on those days.


    I didn’t think this was a problem as I thought they would be a good source or protein to eat early on training days, but was told that I should be careful eating that many eggs for cholesterol reasons.

    The person that told me this would know little about nutrition but I would like some advice for myself.


    Should I stop doing this?


    I am 6’3, about 90kgs, and am active, weight training 3 or 4 times per week, and do cardio 2 to 3 times per week.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭Frogdog


    I wouldn't be worried in the slightest about the eggs. The cholestorol in eggs, dietary cholestorol, is different to your blood cholestorol and has no effect on it. I'd be more worried about the sunflower oil. The fats in sunflower oil are chemically altered when heated and are very harmful to you. You should try scrambled, poached, boiled eggs or omelettes instead. If you have to fry them, fry them in a bit of butter or coconut oil, both of which are much better for you.

    For what it's worth, I eat about 30 eggs a week (around 4 a day) and have my cholesterol checked every 3 months in work (a free health check we have). My cholestorol is consistently within the range I should be at.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭MaxPower89


    Frogdog wrote: »
    I wouldn't be worried in the slightest about the eggs. The cholestorol in eggs, dietary cholestorol, is different to your blood cholestorol and has no effect on it. I'd be more worried about the sunflower oil. The fats in sunflower oil are chemically altered when heated and are very harmful to you. You should try scrambled, poached, boiled eggs or omelettes instead. If you have to fry them, fry them in a bit of butter or coconut oil, both of which are much better for you.

    For what it's worth, I eat about 30 eggs a week (around 4 a day) and have my cholesterol checked every 3 months in work (a free health check we have). My cholestorol is consistently within the range I should be at.
    I eat the eggs in work, so I don’t have a choice as to the way they are cooked. I presumed they were cooked in sunflower oil as the oil seems quite tasteless and doesn’t seem to smell. I might try and enquire as to what oil they use, but don’t want to annoy the chefs too much either. The eggs are cooked in the oven on a tray with holes in it, so the amount of oil on the eggs is miniscule when cooked. I didn’t realise that sunflower oil was so bad, I use it myself when cooking sometimes, so I’ll try and cut this out.

    I presume since then that eggs are a great source of pre-work out protein?

    On a side-note, is olive oil ok?


  • Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭Frogdog


    Eggs are good at any time. But ya, pre-gym no problem.

    Olive oil is excellent when it's served cold/room temperature. Again, I wouldn't cook with it though. Great with salads etc. Not so great when coming out of a frying pan.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Theodore Better Pension


    What's the best oil for general cooking? I use butter for most things tbh. Or else just grill/bake everything


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,394 ✭✭✭Transform


    What's the best oil for general cooking? I use butter for most things tbh. Or else just grill/bake everything
    keep doing that so as thats ideal


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Only thing about butter is it tends to burn at higher temps. I use coconut oil for frying now. If you are eating loads of eggs you can boil up a load of them at a time and stick them in the fridge, many fridges have those holders now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Transform wrote: »
    keep doing that so as thats ideal
    Nutritionally its good.
    But as a oil to cook with its not, burns too low as Rubadub mentioned. Coconut is better but expensive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭boogeyman


    Vegetables. Abuse them. Brocolli and Cauliflower are your new heroes. Throw a lump of butter onto them and mash them up, or grate some cheese and whip it around in a bowl. You'll struggle to ever overeat on good vegetables, and you'll get better at cooking as you learn how to change it up.

    http://leetsstreet.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/paleoplate.jpg

    Another thing I'd do is change the times of the day that you eat carbs. If I'm not working out I generally wouldn't eat many carbs after 3pm (if you think about it why would I need to be taking on such amounts of energy fuel if I'm just gonna be sitting down for the night:p)

    You'd be surprised the difference limiting/altering your carb intake will make.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    Butter or flora light?

    I can get how Flora is modified and the body can process certain fats easier but there are so many more calories in butter, I know I can of course just have a little bit of butter but how much worse would it be for me to have a little bit of spread instead.

    And any opinions on olive oil? Think I'm going to get some olive oil but find a little spray bottle instead of putting a blob on the pan.

    ..coconut oil eh? any other good oils


  • Advertisement
  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    Butter butter butter a thousand times butter.

    There aren't all that many more cals in butter than in flora light. A 'pat' of butter is about 5g so less than 50cals. Two of those is my average portion on veg or on a potato etc and I eat more butter than most.


Advertisement