Spirit of Ireland - A bright spark in today's economic gloom?

curran_c · 23-05-2009 2:33pm

Stark wrote: »

I'm also fascinated by the high number of low postcount contributors to this thread who seem only interested in talking up the idea.

why are you looking for a debate or are you just looking to knock it?

Calina · 23-05-2009 3:24pm

curran_c I question how closely you've read the spirit of Ireland meagre documentation.

In short, they have not decided how many pumped storage systems they will build. They are saying 2 for the purposes of the figures, but have admitted on their forum that they may build 2, 3 or 4 depending on how much the country wants to depend on wind power.

This would suggest to me that 2 would not be adequate. There are also stiill questions being asked about the extent to which their back up system can support wind power which is somewhat unpredictable.

I'd be assuming that if they are talking about possibly building 4, 4 is what would sustain - possibly - full coverage from wind power. Given that they've bandied a budget of 10billion around based on 2 storage dams, and each dam apparently costs 800million euro, 2 extra dams would put their budget up by 16% and also implies that the 10 billion euro budget perhaps is not based on full energy self sufficiency.

In other words, while I think we seriously need to look at alternative and preferably renewable energy sources, there are aspects of the data coming from spirit of Ireland that leave me in some doubt as to whether they are the right people to rely on to do this. It's a pity because in principle the idea is not a bad one. The execution, on the other hand, is not the greatest.

curran_c · 23-05-2009 3:52pm

@ Calina

oh you question how closely i've read it do you? you know its needlessly adversarial and negative attitudes like yours that keeps this country in the mud. i have read the information on their website, read the write ups on various websites and listened to the pitch on the Pat Kenny Programme, if thats good enough for you.

if youre only interested in condemning it without trial well then take your attitude elsewhere. these people spent six months working on their proposal, i question whether you spent six minutes on your dismissal.

Sponge Bob · 23-05-2009 4:52pm

Calina has been around the houses on big infrastructure on Boards , especially transport. Calina has never impeded any open discussion on same and I have been controversial enough in my time God knows but I have never felt constrained by Calina moderating issues in any way that prevented it being well thrashed out by all parties /.

Of all the people you could accuse of small mindedness Curran Calina is the last .

I expect a full unqualified retraction from you , PDQ , seeing as you have not contributed a sous to any understanding of a project like this on Boards . Not a sausage mate , zip .

Calina · 23-05-2009 5:53pm

curran_c wrote: »

@ Calina

oh you question how closely i've read it do you? you know its needlessly adversarial and negative attitudes like yours that keeps this country in the mud. i have read the information on their website, read the write ups on various websites and listened to the pitch on the Pat Kenny Programme, if thats good enough for you.

if youre only interested in condemning it without trial well then take your attitude elsewhere. these people spent six months working on their proposal, i question whether you spent six minutes on your dismissal.

Are you suggesting that this country would be better off if everyone shut up and didn't question stuff coming their way when they have some doubts about it? Because I would take the view that this is the attitude that got us into the mess we are in now, which is a) broke and b) spending a fortune on tribunals and c) rescuing banks. Because no one asks the hard questions. You think hard questions are negativity?

They aren't. They are the cement that stick viable projects together.

Again, to make this simple, according to Spirit of Ireland, 2 reservoirs may not be enough pumped storage and they have not decided how many reservoirs need to be built because other decisions regarding the amount of storage we will require have not been made.

This information is on their website in the technical part of their forum.

mysterious · 23-05-2009 11:17pm

Any sign of the Newlands cross scheme on the scence

BTW are they redesigning it. The current design is a heap of sh"t..:mad::mad:

3 narrow lanes and no HS...... Not approppriate at all considering the cross section.

Is 3 Lanes Eastbound
2m median,
2 running right hand lanes
1 left hand lane
1 bus lane

Same replica for Westbound except has 1 running right hand lane. Though there IS PLENTY OF ROOM ON VERGES.

So for anyone who dissagrees with me that they can't build a bridge with four lanes each way with HS better go look again.

95,000 vehicles a day use the N7 here, 3 Lane upgrade is not adequate for present nor future demands.

No ifs, ****eology, but if, and that. it's not good enough.

curran_c · 24-05-2009 2:26am

@Calina - of course i dont expect people to shut up and go along with it. it is our right if not our duty to question such things. however i believe you were not only questioning but dismissing the project. all things being equal, i would prefer to be supportive until such time as dismissal is actually warranted. god knows its an uphill battle at the best of times in this country.

i apologise if i was overly harsh with my last comment but this is my first time on boards and i did not expect nor appreciate being knocked by the moderator of all people.

so between you keeping the country in the mud and me bankrupting her, maybe we could meet somewhere in the middle and try to fix some of this mess.

@spongebob - im afraid im going to have to decline your invitation to retract my last. although i would ask what my level of contribution has to do with my being allowed to get into an argument with somebody?

Sponge Bob · 24-05-2009 6:13pm

Calina is a moderator elsewhere on boards not here. Seeing as you stand over your comments I will report you to the mod around here .

Dan Jaman · 24-05-2009 8:37pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Calina is a moderator elsewhere on boards not here. Seeing as you stand over your comments I will report you to the mod around here .

Eh? That's a bit creepy.

greyed · 24-05-2009 10:57pm

Sponge Bob wrote:

Calina is a moderator elsewhere on boards not here. Seeing as you stand over your comments I will report you to the mod around here .

Um, yea wtf, so he disagrees with you. Dont cry about it.

Sponge Bob · 24-05-2009 11:48pm

greyed wrote: »

Um, yea wtf, so he disagrees with you. Dont cry about it.

I have no idea whether he does or not , he has not said anything other than insulting other posters ..although not me .

If this intolerance is to become a hallmark of the spirit campaign then we are indeed in trouble as a country .

curran_c · 25-05-2009 12:40am

@ spongebob

wow!! and here was me thinking i was the one overreacting. are you saying that if i don't retract my statement the whole country is doomed?

listen this is getting rediculous so i will end it now. i didn't come here to discuss etiquette.

Sponge Bob · 25-05-2009 8:36am

You came here to tell us that "two small valleys" will give us energy independence it seems, where did you get the idea that the proposal is that simple ??

You then started flailing about insulting anyone who realised that it is a lot more complex than that .

Start by reading all this thread , click on 1 2 3 4 5 6 (AND in that order) in the bottom right corner of your screen

curran_c · 25-05-2009 8:52am

i told you that i was finished with you. go away now please.

Sponge Bob · 25-05-2009 9:41am

curran_c wrote: »

i told you that i was finished with you. go away now please.

So you have "two small valleys" , anything else ????

jank · 26-05-2009 5:35am

Lads can we play nice!

D7 · 13-06-2009 12:04am

Anyone who is interested should watch this (yes all 40 mins of it) and make others aware. This is a project we should all be discussing in public asap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWl2TuHcY6w and www.spiritofireland.org

I want to believe, should'nt we all ?............and if it happens.........think of the pride!

Stark · 13-06-2009 12:16am

D7 wrote: »

I want to believe, should'nt we all ?............and if it happens.........think of the pride!

Pride as in pride of lions or pride as in thousands of brightly dressed gay people frolicking through the streets? 'Cause Dublin already has both.

D7 · 21-06-2009 11:23pm

Well did anyone watch the youtube link I mentioned above, I will not include the "P" word in the event it is taken out of the context in which it was intended:D??

www.spiritofireland.org

Murts-Rig · 24-06-2009 1:50pm

tech2 wrote: »

Engineers dont know anything about grids or connecting RE's to them. Electricians would be better suited to most of this. Engineers are more involved in electronic devices such as ADC and DAC and implementing new ideas for these and amplifiers.

???????? Incredible............ Amazing!

Dan Jaman · 24-06-2009 8:42pm

Isn't it just?

dowlingm · 25-06-2009 2:43am

A warning from Spain: (PDF)

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: LESSONS FROM THE SPANISH RENEWABLES BUBBLE
Europe’s current policy and strategy for supporting the so-called “green jobs” or renewable energy dates back to 1997, and has become one of the principal justifications for U.S. “green jobs” proposals. Yet an examination of Europe’s experience reveals these policies to be terribly economically counterproductive.

This study is important for several reasons. First is that the Spanish experience is considered a leading example to be followed by many policy advocates and politicians. This study marks the very first time a critical analysis of the actual performance and impact has been made. Most important, it demonstrates that the Spanish/EU-style “green jobs” agenda now being promoted in the U.S. in fact destroys jobs, detailing this in terms of jobs destroyed per job created and the net destruction per installed MW.

The study’s results demonstrate how such “green jobs” policy clearly hinders Spain’s way out of the current economic crisis, even while U.S. politicians insist that rushing into such a scheme will ease their own emergence from the turmoil.

and

7. The study calculates that since 2000 Spain spent €571,138 to create each “green job”, including subsidies of more than €1 million per wind industry job.

curious guy · 30-06-2009 7:06pm

How much energy and oil is required to produce the steel in those massive wind turbines?

drunken_munky52 · 17-07-2009 1:57pm

murphaph wrote: »

We could achieve near energy independence (and possibly independence depending on whether or not we have uranium) with wind/wave/tidal/hydro/solar/gas and one single nuclear power station. Of course transport is the most difficult area to remove fossil fuels from the equation but it is possible. Best of luck to ANYONE who pushes this agenda-Ireland needs badly to be more energy independent. It stregthens our country and makes it a more desirable place to do business.

I reckon additional off peak wind energy should be used to make hydrogen for the fuel cell cars of the future. Might start my own idea on that one, unless someone else beat me to it!

SparkyLarks · 27-07-2009 10:57pm

curious guy wrote: »

How much energy and oil is required to produce the steel in those massive wind turbines?

Not Much at all, typicaly the energy used in constructin is paid back in 3-6 months.

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

I reckon additional off peak wind energy should be used to make hydrogen for the fuel cell cars of the future. Might start my own idea on that one, unless someone else beat me to it!

Hydrogen storage is very lossy. The most efficent way to store power is pumped storage.

As for the figures I've been to a number of SOI talks, and done the maths and the figures they provide are sound.

Basicially though as I look at it they are the only people with a plan to get us out of the economic mess. Political parties are giving us such plans as create jobs, or restore compeditivness with very little on the how.

Personally I don't see any alternative plans out there. If we go out and do this we
1) lower out carbon emissions
2) lower the fossils fuels we import,
3) stabalize electricity prices, ( so unless oil prices fall that will be a major help to compeditiness
4) stimulate the construction sectors
5) provide regional development
6) become world leaders in renewable development

Yes we flood a few vallys but unless we stop global warming we will flood a lot more,

yes we end up with a lot of wind Turbines( 2500 of them) but in this case the benifits are potentially enormous

weepee · 27-07-2009 11:05pm

Should the 'green agenda' take a back seat in the current recession ?

SparkyLarks · 27-07-2009 11:06pm

Calina wrote: »

Are you suggesting that this country would be better off if everyone shut up and didn't question stuff coming their way when they have some doubts about it? Because I would take the view that this is the attitude that got us into the mess we are in now, which is a) broke and b) spending a fortune on tribunals and c) rescuing banks. Because no one asks the hard questions. You think hard questions are negativity?

They aren't. They are the cement that stick viable projects together.

Again, to make this simple, according to Spirit of Ireland, 2 reservoirs may not be enough pumped storage and they have not decided how many reservoirs need to be built because other decisions regarding the amount of storage we will require have not been made.

This information is on their website in the technical part of their forum.

I've been at two presentations by the Spirit of Ireland and their data is well though out and they do have a lot of figures to back it up.

They claim to have located 50 possible site with over 100GWh of storage capacity, as we need approx 500GWh( assumes average of 3GWh) for a weeks of elctricity supply depending on the sites chosen they may need 2 say 300GWh capacity sites or 5 100GWh capacity sites.

By not tying themselves down to a few sites they can find locations where the local population welcome the project.

SparkyLarks · 27-07-2009 11:10pm

weepee wrote: »

Should the 'green agenda' take a back seat in the current recession ?

Why not develop out renewable energy resoursces to get us out of the recession. Countries in Europe without sufficent wind , wave or tidal energy to reach 20% of their electricity generation commitments will probably have to vuy renewable energy from somewhere.

That requires building an interconnector to france but that would also allow us to buy very cheap neuclear power at night store it in the resivoirs and sell it back to the french during the day for approx 5 times the cost we bought it for. so It might be a very good investment

weepee · 27-07-2009 11:13pm

SparkyLarks wrote: »

Why not develop out renewable energy resoursces to get us out of the recession. Countries in Europe without sufficent wind , wave or tidal energy to reach 20% of their electricity generation commitments will probably have to vuy renewable energy from somewhere.

That requires building an interconnector to france but that would also allow us to buy very cheap neuclear power at night store it in the resivoirs and sell it back to the french during the day for approx 5 times the cost we bought it for. so It might be a very good investment

Im neither disputing or opposed to renewable energy for the country, but a question.

'Where will the investment funds come from'?

SparkyLarks · 27-07-2009 11:36pm

weepee wrote: »

Im neither disputing or opposed to renewable energy for the country, but a question.

'Where will the investment funds come from'?

According to the Spirit of Ireland group there are a number of investors willing to invest, including the EU funding, Middle Eastern investment groups .

The Government could borrow the money if they want and pay for it, increasing taxation over the short term

Or private investment could invest in it and the Government would lose out and an future profits.

Spirit of Ireland - A bright spark in today's economic gloom?

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