"Southern" Ireland... do you mean 'Ireland'?

fly_agaric · 06-04-2006 2:14pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

As for "British Isles", this is a phrase that refers to landmasses, not political entities, just like we refer to "the continent" instead of listing every country in the landmass of Europe.

In fairness, it could still be a politically loaded term if you want to worry about such things (personally I don't care!:D ).
I suppose you could say the "Irish Sea" balances things out a bit.

Looking over at Asia again (the Koreans and their former colonial masters):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Japan_naming_dispute

sportswear · 06-04-2006 2:32pm

i hate england blah blah blah blah blah..................

BORING.

did it not occur to you that your own history books are biased???

Everyone falsifies history even if it is only his own personal history. Sometimes the falsification is deliberate, sometimes unconscious; but always the past is altered to suit the needs of the present

Peteee · 06-04-2006 3:15pm

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Ireland (as we know it) is referred to as "Southern" Ireland only, which is a part the British Isles (pictures showing Ireland and Britain with "BRITISH ISLES" plastered all over Ireland - very misleading me thinks.

Thats because Ireland is part of the British Isles

Its a geographical not a political statement.

'The winners write the history books'

Always the case, a nations history books will almost always be biased in some form or another.

Ruu_Old · 06-04-2006 4:45pm

Alot of companies based in the UK (PC World from my experiences) go on about "southern ireland" when on customer support to them referring to the republic. Southern Ireland to me would be Cork and north of Ireland would be Derry.

latenia · 06-04-2006 5:08pm

It's interesting that people are making such a big deal about the name of this country as spoken by the British when they don't know it themselves. The name is Ireland; if you are speaking Irish it's Eire.

The Republic of Ireland is the name of our football team; this expression was devised by FIFA.

Hermione* · 06-04-2006 5:11pm

I worked for a company that did a lot of trade in Britain, and we'd get post from our British Bank of Ireland branch addressed to 'Dublin 18, Southern Ireland'! I can understaand the use of the term 'the south' in conversation, but on a postal address don't you go with the correct title of the country? Even Eire as a name has a greater claim to correctness than Southern Ireland!

The other thing that annoys me a LOT is when people use Ulster interchangably with Northern Ireland. Ulster is not Northern Ireland. My sister lives in Donegal, where would that put her? :rolleyes:

ek942 · 06-04-2006 5:19pm

taconnol wrote:

Ur..no I didn't we're discussing biases in how history is taught in the UK and the effect it has on the opinions of those pupils. I got it

Oh and.... Yes you did say that you don't care if the UK have a history education that is biased against Ireland....

On a slight tangent (but still on topic, sort of), I went to Trinity and I remember one of the admin staff referring to Britain as the "main land". :eek:

On Bravo the other night 'I predict a riot' was about Norn Iron and the git presenting it kept referring to the 'main land'.From a British point of view it's correct.No matter what you think or say those 6 counties are a part of Britain now.

06-04-2006 5:36pm

latenia wrote:

The Republic of Ireland is the name of our football team; this expression was devised by FIFA.

Somehow I doubt that.

The Republic of Ireland is what is on all our company stationary,

. Its a geographical term. As distinct to the counties that are held by the British. And the republis has been around longer than our soccer team.... haha

Beer is Life · 06-04-2006 5:40pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islands_of_the_North_Atlantic

Victor · 06-04-2006 5:41pm

Hermione* wrote:

The other thing that annoys me a LOT is when people use Ulster interchangably with Northern Ireland. Ulster is not Northern Ireland. My sister lives in Donegal, where would that put her? :rolleyes:

The North of Ireland.

dr zoidberg · 06-04-2006 5:47pm

Dakota Glamorous Wolverine wrote:

Somehow I doubt that.

The Republic of Ireland is what is on all our company stationary, . Its a geographical term. As distinct to the counties that are held by the British. And the republis has been around longer than our soccer team.... haha

Although the country was declared a republic the official name remained Ireland or Éire in the constitution. The ROI thing was as a result of a dispute between the FAI and the Northern Irish FA (misleadingly called the Irish Football Association) who both wanted to be called Ireland in international games. Hence the fact that the Irish team is the only one in international football which requires the "republic" bit in its title.

fly_agaric · 06-04-2006 9:43pm

latenia wrote:

It's interesting that people are making such a big deal about the name of this country as spoken by the British when they don't know it themselves. The name is Ireland; if you are speaking Irish it's Eire.

The Republic of Ireland is the name of our football team; this expression was devised by FIFA.

Fascinating stuff...
And I thought this site was just for wasting time.:)

blu_sonic · 06-04-2006 10:18pm

I lived in London, I'm 22 and most of my friends over there were of a similar age so they were interested in the politics of ireland and were relitivly fresh from schooling, Ive only ever been wound up twice by their so called "igorance".

1. The famine, They were thought that it wasn't nothing to do with brittian and soley the fault of the Irish

2. Oliver Cromwell, That he had a right to kill/maim and murder whoever and whenever he saw fit, that the whole Drogheda thing was compleatly justified. That made me leave the conversation.

All in all they accept and understand Ireland. You must remember our view of england and how we view their history is most likely flawed too.

(sorry about the spelling Im knackered tired)

nlgbbbblth · 06-04-2006 11:12pm

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

I have lived and worked in the UK for 3 years

You obviously don't have a lot of time for the 'Brits'.

So why do you live and work there??????

blu_sonic · 06-04-2006 11:47pm

lol for a second there i though you ment me, needless to say i got a shock! i think in fairness to them the money is good and the lifestyle is handy, but i loved it there so i can't speak for them

jimmycrackcorm · 07-04-2006 12:00am

R0ot wrote:

Well im from the north (geographicly) and i have to cross the border nearly everyday to go to uni in derry. No a common misconception is that its the City of Derry, this is untrue it is the City of Londonderry. But then people that know this make a further mistake by calling it County Londonderry which again is incorrect it is County Derry or Doire. Further more where i come from there is a butt load of resentment to the north (political) but some of this is playful between people. As in a few of my mates in uni joke about have i got electricity down there yet or are we still working on steam. But this is playful as already said.

In regards to the OP's post i never actually knew that they taught that kind of stuff in england but to say the least im not surprised. I have friends of many different religions and i even have a few mates that are in the orange order, but the strangest comment ive ever come across is "There are only 6 counties in ulster" ive never reacted stronger to something in my life, i actually got a lecturer of history to talk to the person in question and finally prove to them that ulster has 9 counties!

The person that i had to use this drastic measures on wouldn't believe a word i said about how ulster isnt 6 counties, i don't know if she was taught that in school or not but thats a disgrace!

I didn't know North Donegal is covered by Satnav otherwise how would you find your way to Derry when there are no signs to to Londonderry?
apparently there is a rule on NI television that it is addresses as Londonderry on thefirst mention and Derry subsequently.

redmagic · 07-04-2006 9:36am

Hermione* wrote:

The other thing that annoys me a LOT is when people use Ulster interchangably with Northern Ireland. Ulster is not Northern Ireland. My sister lives in Donegal, where would that put her? :rolleyes:

Back in 1998, I toured Scotland, England, Wales, NI, and Eire with a popular tour company. During this tour the entire tour group was told that if your affiliation was English then you'd call NI Northern Ireland. But, if your affiliation was Irish, then you'd call NI Ulster. Can you see where some confusion might occur?

Macha · 07-04-2006 10:35am

ek942 wrote:

On Bravo the other night 'I predict a riot' was about Norn Iron and the git presenting it kept referring to the 'main land'.From a British point of view it's correct.No matter what you think or say those 6 counties are a part of Britain now.

I accept that, but we weren't in Northern Ireland when the phrase was used and the admin person in question was from the Republic (well, she had a d4 accent).

I personally didn't mind, I found it more funny than offensive, but I do accept that for many people it is a sore subject. No doubt, even more so because the issue of Northern Ireland is still on going and there are a fair few people around both in the North and in Ireland that have been directly affected by the Troubles.

In the same way, I think people should be aware that it's a sensitive issue and so be careful with the terms that they use. Then again, maybe that's going over the top on the whole political correctness thing.

Hub · 07-04-2006 1:53pm

In all fairness, who cares what they're thought

flogen · 07-04-2006 2:18pm

Just to add my experience to it all, in my short time in England I've been asked was I from Southern Ireland countless times, and myself and a number of friends have been asked if Ireland was in Britain many, many times too.

I'm not sure if it's what they are (or are not) taught in school, but there is certainly a big misconception among many people. The term "British Isles", which includes RoI annoys me, but not very much... the apparent lack of knowledge about English history is what gets me though.

gsand · 07-04-2006 3:37pm

I find this thread quite amusing as 1. 'Most people in the UK believe this'

No they don't you have just decided they do in your little generalisation theory.

2. It's not a nothing new move on case as 56 million people are really not that stupid and arrogant.

I can see the 55.9 million joke already so let's not bother.

zuma · 07-04-2006 4:15pm

I thought the population fo the UK was ~61million?

gsand · 07-04-2006 4:17pm

strong chance they could have had some kids since i last checked population numbers

Bob the Seducer · 07-04-2006 5:06pm

dr zoidberg wrote:

Although the country was declared a republic the official name remained Ireland or Éire in the constitution. The ROI thing was as a result of a dispute between the FAI and the Northern Irish FA (misleadingly called the Irish Football Association) who both wanted to be called Ireland in international games. Hence the fact that the Irish team is the only one in international football which requires the "republic" bit in its title.

That's right, I believe the IFA were founded first in 1880 in Belfast, Northern Ireland decided to hold onto the name and the organisation after the split. Our FAI was founded in 1921 in Dublin. The IFA had left FIFA in 1920 and when they came back in 46 they came back as Northern Ireland so we were made the Republic of Ireland by FIFA.

Cake Fiend · 07-04-2006 5:58pm

Peteee wrote:

Thats because Ireland is part of the British Isles

Its a geographical not a political statement.

Does that mean Britain is part of the French Isles?

QC · 07-04-2006 6:16pm

Whatever about Irish history, what I find more often is that I know more about English history than most English people I talk to.

Plastic Scouser · 07-04-2006 6:31pm

R0ot wrote:

In regards to the OP's post i never actually knew that they taught that kind of stuff in england but to say the least im not surprised

Just because the OP read this 'stuff' in a book does not mean that this is actually being taught in English schools.

To be honest, 'history' is an extremely low priority in most English schools (the comprehensives anyway), and generally the younger generation of English people care very little for it.

I don't mean this to sound really harsh, but English people just don't care about Ireland or Irish history at all, and I doubt that even the few lines that the OP quoted from the book are actually taught in schools today.

Bartronilic · 07-04-2006 7:16pm

Once me and a friend were talking to this guy from liverpool and he told us not to blow up his cit becuase our national army is the IRA and that calling Northern Ireland "North ireland" is racist and that we should call ourselves Republicans. Then he said all Irish people come from Liverpool (it's the other way around). Anyway that guy was really serious and really nerdy i forever hate him.

Plastic Scouser · 07-04-2006 7:34pm

Bartronilic wrote:

Once me and a friend were talking to this guy from liverpool and he told us not to blow up his cit becuase our national army is the IRA and that calling Northern Ireland "North ireland" is racist and that we should call ourselves Republicans. Then he said all Irish people come from Liverpool (it's the other way around). Anyway that guy was really serious and really nerdy i forever hate him.

And....?!!

You find idiots everywhere in the World! I once met a guy from Dublin who was a moron and said some stupid things.....the fact that I meet one Dubliner who is an idiot does not make me think every Dubliner is!

WhiteWashMan · 07-04-2006 7:45pm

/sigh.

people have too much time on their hands.

that is all...

"Southern" Ireland... do you mean 'Ireland'?

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