Summons over unpaid DART fine

Pierce_1991 · 21-12-2010 9:26am #1

Hey, just looking for a little bit of help with this situation.
Basically in May I received a fine for paying only a child fair on a dart of 100 euro. I appealed explaining I had an exam to get to and had only enough for the child fair but it was rejected. A friend who worked in Iarnrod Eireann at the time sent an email to the guy that dealt with me just explaining again that it had been a one off, again I didn't hold out much hope as I do know I was in the wrong. However neither me nor my friend heard back from him again. Rather naively I assumed that it had been let go, however about 3 days ago I got a court summons for not paying the fine and another summons for use of foul and abusive language against the worker who had given me the fine. Again, I realise I am totally in the wrong here as my reaction was over the top.

Basically I am wondering, after admitting my wrong doing on both cases what could I be looking at here, I assume the fine will be increased but does anyone know by how much or what the result may be?
Thanks

AlekSmart · 21-12-2010 9:38am

Again, I realise I am totally in the wrong here as my reaction was over the top.

Pierce 1991,first thing is don`t run !

Although Boards.ie is full to brimming with posters who advocate resistance and damn-the-authorities type of stuff,the reality is that breaches of Public Transport Fare regulations generally do result in a conviction,although often with nominal fines.

Turn up for the Court Hearing and see what happens.

If the Court Process can proceed then enter your plea.

If you exhibit the same contrition as in your post I would imagine a Judge will take a more benign view than if you get beligerent.

It`s also worth noting that many such Court Appearances fail for non-appearance of Company/Garda witnesses which would usually result in a strike-out.

Some might also recommend engaging a solicitor,but that`s your call.

Good Luck.

Pierce_1991 · 21-12-2010 10:55am

Ok cheers for the advice. I'll definitely go to the hearing. I've heard its likely the worker will turn up because they get paid for the days work anyway or something, not too sure about that. I just hope that the judge will take pity and be lenient enough. Thanks again

goingnowhere · 21-12-2010 11:00am

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

Hey, just looking for a little bit of help with this situation.
Basically in May I received a fine for paying only a child fair on a dart of 100 euro. ... I got a court summons for not paying the fine and another summons for use of foul and abusive language against the worker who had given me the fine.

Be prepared for a large fine and prison time if you fail to pay up

Travelling on a child ticket as an adult shows clear intent to defraud none of the I thought I could pay at the other end lark.

Use of abusive language is again unacceptable the courts don't like it. It depends on the judge on the day.

Irish Rail currently achieve over 80% conviction rate

Lapin · 21-12-2010 11:27am

You'll probably get 6 months in the Joy.

But with good behaviour you could be out by Easter.

So don't treat the prison officers to the same foul language you gave the Irish Rail staffer and you'll be grand.

-Chris- · 21-12-2010 11:37am

Let's keep it constructive and helpful please

DWCommuter · 21-12-2010 2:27pm

The OP could try offering to pay the fine before the court date. IE may add a small admin fee to it, but it could keep it out of court. However the summons for the foul and abusive language is a different matter. Offer a letter of apology with the fine.

At the end of the day if it can be resolved without a court appearance its in everyones best interests. Take your medicine inside some humble pie and see what happens.

Terrontress · 21-12-2010 3:34pm

If I were in your shoes, I would throw myself on the mercy of the court.

Apologise for wasting the judge's time and that of IR and make no attempt to justify what you have done.

derry · 21-12-2010 4:23pm

Me I dont do paying fines or going to court for anything and neither do my freinds who are all clued up on the legal system with the Irish Freeman logic and know the legal courts system is a con job
Basically there is only three conditions in law that apply to us humans where they can be jailed , either they kill somebody, injure somebody, or damage proprty or defraud a human (A company limited is not a Human its a legal entity person so it doesnt count as a human so as human you cannot be fined or jailed for abusing a company ltd like a bus company if you learn the ways how to remain as human in a legal court )

The court system in Ireland in order to make a human pay a fine for something say rail fines or parking fines etc must first convert the human in court to a legal entity person .
Then the judge can then judge the case before him of legal entity person the the bus company and the human victim who is stupid eneogh to let himself/ herself be converted into a legal entity person

We The Irish Freemen when we have these issues ensure we dont get get converted to a legal entity person and remain as a human and the legal sytem cant touch us as they are not allowed to judge a human in cases which are not the above killing injuring defrauding another human

First rule is we endevour never to go to court as much as possible so we return the letters to the company concerned often parking fine or banks or similar but in your case the Bus company with the " return to sender ,No contract ,I do not recoginse your intent ,no liabilty,No internation treaty .

That system aone usually stops them in their tracks and we never hear from the again

However now in your case its in the ball court of the court sytem and thats further down stream

There we say a summons is really just a invitation to deviding up of a economic cake in the Alice in wonderland legal court system they invented

They the judge and lawers and police etc will get their peice of the economic cake money for their time .
You the victim if you allow yourself to be converted to a legal entity person will be if your lucky get your peice of the economic cake and get a fine time in prison free food safe lodging and even daily work at ~ 1 euro per hour
For the court system they consider this a fair equitable deal you get all these extra bonuses from them .

However if you chose to send the summons to the correct place in the legal system expressing your lack of interest in the invitatation to this Alice in wonderland party we have about ~99.99% success rate in getting the court system to cancell the invitatation or summons as you call it
Those methods are a bit more complex so best to contact the free man movement at www.tnsradio.com (tns = tir na soar =land of the free )
They mostly meet in Dublin but also meet in other places around Ireland

If thats info is not working so well for you feel free to PM me

Derry

-Chris- · 21-12-2010 4:30pm

Oh, for the love of God. Can we not start this dubious legal advice here?

Victor · 21-12-2010 4:36pm

I appealed explaining I had an exam to get to

Did you mention the exam when you were caught first?

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

I appealed explaining I had an exam to get to and had only enough for the child fair

How did you get home?

about 3 days ago I got a court summons for not paying the fine and another summons for use of foul and abusive language against the worker who had given me the fine.

You (and/or your solicitor) must attend court. If you don't, you risk an arrest warrant being issued.

You don't absolutely have to have a solicitor, however, given that there are two charges, it is likely to be to your advantage. Certainly, the solicitor will be much better at pleading mitigation than you.

Is the summons for "foul and abusive language" a Garda summons or the extended Irish Rail / CIE one? If a Garda summons, having a solicitor might be quite important.

Basically I am wondering, after admitting my wrong doing on both cases what could I be looking at here, I assume the fine will be increased but does anyone know by how much or what the result may be?

Realistically, I imagine you are looking at paying twice what you could have paid. Prison is an option, but unlikely. Ideally, you need to avoid a conviction and for that you will need to work on giving the judge the best reasons not to convict you, e.g. via the Probation Act or a charitable donation. Be wary of asking for either by yourself - thats best done through a solicitor

Suggestions might be:
* Doing an anger management course.
* Buying a annual adult ticket / monthly student ticket and proving that you now buy them consistently might also be useful.
* Demonstrating that you are normally hard working and conscientious and that this event was out of character.

Pierce_1991 · 21-12-2010 6:44pm

Victor wrote: »

Did you mention the exam when you were caught first?

I didn't, but the guys were waiting specifically in Sandymount for students going to the RDS and I showed them my student card as identification

Victor wrote: »

How did you get home?

I got money from friends I had in the exam

Victor wrote: »

You (and/or your solicitor) must attend court. If you don't, you risk an arrest warrant being issued.

You don't absolutely have to have a solicitor, however, given that there are two charges, it is likely to be to your advantage. Certainly, the solicitor will be much better at pleading mitigation than you.

Is the summons for "foul and abusive language" a Garda summons or the extended Irish Rail / CIE? If a Garda summons, having a solicitor might be quite important.

Realistically, I imagine you are looking at paying twice what you could have paid. Prison is an option, but unlikely. Ideally, you need to avoid a conviction and for that you will need to work on giving the judge the best reasons not to convict you, e.g. via the Probation Act or a charitable donation. Be wary of asking for either by yourself - that best done through a solicitor

Suggestions might be:
* Doing an anger management course.
* Buying a annual adult ticket / monthly student ticket and proving that you now buy them consistently might also be useful.
* Demonstrating that you are normally hard working and conscientious and that this event was out of character.

The summons was a complaint made by the worker, not a garda one. I plan to contact IR tomorrow to see if I could pay the fine, and the letter of apology is a great idea, I hadn't thought of it

I fully plan on attending the court hearing. The thought of prison time would make me ill to be honest. I'm worried about ending up with a record that may prevent me from going to the US, I had planned on going there next Summer.

Thanks very much to everyone (well most of you's) for the advice, I really appreciate it

peanuthead · 21-12-2010 6:53pm

Pierce_1991 are these final year exams?

If so, even better, but even still play up the stress thing on the day as a reason for your outburst and get a character reference from someone to vouch that you are not normally like that. That coupled with the hopeful

fact that you have no record and that will be struck off as a once-off thing, depending on the judge.

Terrontress · 21-12-2010 7:55pm

-Chris- wrote: »

Oh, for the love of God. Can we not start this dubious legal advice here?

I've read that several times and can't make head nor tail of it!

corktina · 21-12-2010 8:18pm

Terrontress wrote: »

I've read that several times and can't make head nor tail of it!

i didnt even bother after the first line or so...

January · 21-12-2010 8:35pm

corktina wrote: »

i didnt even bother after the first line or so...

I read it for the lulz, it's actually pretty amusing...

mickydoomsux · 21-12-2010 10:01pm

derry wrote: »

Those methods are a bit more complex so best to contact the free man movement at www.tnsradio.com (tns = tir na soar =land of the free )
They mostly meet in Dublin but also meet in other places around Ireland

If thats info is not working so well for you feel free to PM me

Derry

I'd surely take this groups advice. Their website has stuff about chemtrails on it.

Clearly smart guys.

AlekSmart · 21-12-2010 10:19pm

I'm worried about ending up with a record that may prevent me from going to the US, I had planned on going there next Summer.

Pierce....With your travel plans in mind,you absolutely need to do your level best to keep this off the legal radar.

You really should make some attempt to contact IE`s Revenue Protection department or perhaps the Dublin Regional management.

Hone your writing skills and perhaps your tele-marketing one`s also.

Whilst the advice from the outer-limits folks is quite good in it`s own way,it really does relate to a time/space continuum somewhat beyond our own.

Many inhabitants of this regulated and oppressive world are somewhat suprised at the willingness of the U.S. Authorities to take the dimmest view of Public Order violations.

There are quite a few confident,sassy and totally correct members of the student community who learned far more from a brief encounter with U.S. Border Patrol and Customs regulations than they could ever have gotten from mouldy oul 1932 Irish Constitutional law......Remember if you don`t want to do the time...don`t do the crime......;)

YUSS · 21-12-2010 10:31pm

how long does it take to get issued with a fine?

Victor · 22-12-2010 6:51pm

YUSS wrote: »

how long does it take to get issued with a fine?

The fixed penalty is issued on the spot. Irish Rail / CIE then have six months to apply for a summons, which may take time to process.

Pineapple stu · 24-12-2010 2:03am

At this stage with so many of the same threads starting on fare fines , would it make sense to either merge all the threads as or just direct the OP's to the previous threads as roughly the same answers are posted in each one. ?

Pierce_1991 · 11-01-2011 6:23pm

I rang Iarnród Éireann yesterday and I've been told if I pay 210 euro by the end of the week they'll drop both charges. Just thought I'd let anyone know who had maybe read this for themselves or anyone who was interested. Cheers to anyone who gave me some advice, helpful advice that is.

DWCommuter · 11-01-2011 6:47pm

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

I rang Iarnród Éireann yesterday and I've been told if I pay 210 euro by the end of the week they'll drop both charges. Just thought I'd let anyone know who had maybe read this for themselves or anyone who was interested. Cheers to anyone who gave me some advice, helpful advice that is.

I'm glad you took my advice and it got the problem sorted without a court appearance.

The OP could try offering to pay the fine before the court date. IE may add a small admin fee to it, but it could keep it out of court. However the summons for the foul and abusive language is a different matter. Offer a letter of apology with the fine.

At the end of the day if it can be resolved without a court appearance its in everyones best interests. Take your medicine inside some humble pie and see what happens.

In nearly all circumstances like this (including a TV license summons) a settlement can be reached before the court date. Only those who ignore the problem end up in court.

AlekSmart · 12-01-2011 1:19am

DWCommuter In nearly all circumstances like this (including a TV license summons) a settlement can be reached before the court date. Only those who ignore the problem end up in court.

For sure

There are many who look forward to their "Day in Court" with visions of being able to make long,detailed speeches from the dock thus tying the oppposing barrister up in knots....:rolleyes:

In the field of Public Transport fare & ticketing issues however,it rarely,if ever,manages to get to this.

Instead things move along with a surprising degree of rapidity and the defendant often ends up straining to make sense of the rapidity of the proceedings.

In most of the cases which actually get to court the Company will have done it`s due-diligence and their conviction rates are testament to that.

In the OP`s case,by far and away the most important aspect was/is his future plans re the USA.

The U.S. authorities do not share the same tolerance level for acting the mickey that we do and the very real danger of accquiring a record,even for a Civil Matter could have far reaching,even,life changing consequences.

That €210 may yet turn out to be a very astute investment for Pierce1991....sanity prevails ?

Victor · 12-01-2011 9:04am

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

I rang Iarnród Éireann yesterday and I've been told if I pay 210 euro by the end of the week they'll drop both charges. Just thought I'd let anyone know who had maybe read this for themselves or anyone who was interested. Cheers to anyone who gave me some advice, helpful advice that is.

You might check that this is merely paying the tickets and not a conviction.

You might wander along to court to make sure you aren't convicted in absentia.

Pierce_1991 · 12-01-2011 9:36am

Victor wrote: »

You might check that this is merely paying the tickets and not a conviction.

You might wander along to court to make sure you aren't convicted in absentia.

I asked them did the payment of the money mean I wouldn't have to go to court and I was told that that would be the case, that they would drop both charges if I paid so it seems ok to me

Losty Dublin · 12-01-2011 10:07am

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

I asked them did the payment of the money mean I wouldn't have to go to court and I was told that that would be the case, that they would drop both charges if I paid so it seems ok to me

Get it in writing that upon payment of this then your summons will be dropped by them in relation to your case; it's piece of mind if nothing else.

Pierce_1991 · 12-01-2011 4:30pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Get it in writing that upon payment of this then your summons will be dropped by them in relation to your case; it's piece of mind if nothing else.

Yeah thats a good idea, I think the woman mentioned something about a receipt of some sort so hopefully that might have something on it about our dealings being done

Summons over unpaid DART fine

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