What can be done to improve public transport?

Colonel Sanders · 16-10-2007 7:32pm #1

was talking about this in work not so long ago after the 'specia' train I booked to travel on was 40 minutes late and pulled out of Euston station at the time the regular train should have. I also use Dublin bus regularly and anyone who regularly uses this service will know that its an 'insert complaint here' type situation.

It got me thinking, what can actually be done?

First of all, should a customer not be compensated if a transport company fail to provide an advertised service? Refunding a portion of a train/bus fare if the service is hugely late would serve to make consumers somewhat relieved but seeing as any short fall in revenue would probably be made up by the government there would be no real incentive for the transport company. Would incentivising staff by paying them bonuses based on arrival times and accuracy of timetables make a difference?

Secondly Dublin bus must surely know that many of their timetables are complete fantasy. I have often stood at a stop for 30-40 mins during which time as many as 3 buses should have stopped (not just talking about rush hour either, it has often happened at times when roads are deserted and congestion can not be blamed). Would electronic signs (such as they have at DART stations) indicating time of the next bus arrival be too much to ask? Also if the management of Dublin bus know that some time tables are figments of some peoples imagination (they surely must) can more accurate timetables not be prepared?

These are just things that occured to me without really thinking out the consequences. Its just that traffic congestion and public transport are both getting worse by the day without much being done. A lot of my ideas probably wouldn't work but seeing as NO ideas whatsoever are being tried I thought I'd chuck my 2c out there. The thing about public transport is that you can build as many QBCs as you like but until motorists actually trust that the public transport system willl be efficient and get them to work when it syas it will etc they will not be convinced to leave the car at home.

Anyone else any thoughts?

cyclopath2001 · 16-10-2007 8:13pm

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Anyone else any thoughts?

Aggressive action to clear cars out of box junctions. I was stuck on the 29a for 20 minutes because of selfish motorists blocking access to the bus lane at the Howth Road/Castle Avenue junction.

mikemac · 16-10-2007 8:48pm

Some will say this shouldn't be done until public transport improves but I think there should be strong tactics to take private cars out of the city centre.
Some people have no choice but a sizable proportion are just being selfish.
This hinders public transport.

I know this was discussed before but BIK tax on parking spaces.
I'm in the IFSC and the this area probably has the best transport links in the city.
It has the Luas, most bus terminate within 10 minute walk, and both Dart and intercity trains with three train stations next door.
But I know countless people who drive as they have free parking.

In time congestion charges (possibly 4-5 years away)
More restricted turns and streets for bikes, taxis and buses e.g Pearse St
Proper car free days maybe 3-4 days per annum to show people what it can be like

I travel on a moped and the only congestion I cause is the queue of cars behind me due to my lack of speed

murphaph · 16-10-2007 9:05pm

More important than ANY infrastructure must be integrated ticketing.

jrar · 16-10-2007 9:32pm

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

was talking about this in work not so long ago after the 'specia' train I booked to travel on was 40 minutes late and pulled out of Euston station at the time the regular train should have.accuracy of timetables make a difference?

I presume you mean Heuston Station in Dublin as distinct from Euston in London ??

markf909 · 16-10-2007 10:26pm

murphaph wrote: »

More important than ANY infrastructure must be integrated ticketing.

In conjunction with a fully operational and authoratitive Dublin Transport Office.

The political vaccum that (mis) governs the curent shamble must be dismantled.

John R · 17-10-2007 1:33am

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

First of all, should a customer not be compensated if a transport company fail to provide an advertised service? Refunding a portion of a train/bus fare if the service is hugely late would serve to make consumers somewhat relieved but seeing as any short fall in revenue would probably be made up by the government there would be no real incentive for the transport company.

If improving PT is the goal then refunds are a red herring. They might placate annoyed passengers somewhat in the short term but putting added financial burdens on an already underfunded system is not going to improve things. The number-crunchers will just change the timetables and service targets to avoid paying out.

The idea that Govt. will just pay up to cover whatever costs is nonsense. Just look at the health service, patients being left hanging because the hse has overspent and the response from Leinster House? Tough shít.

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Would incentivising staff by paying them bonuses based on arrival times and accuracy of timetables make a difference?

Giving a financial bonus for frontline staff to hustle for quick operations... You think it's a good idea to have people in charge of 18 tonnes of boxes full of people to race around the city like a special stage of a rally?

Just ask the Japanese what happens when train drivers are pressured over late-running.

Expecting frontline staff to make up for the complete lack of ability and vision in our elected representatives and very well paid industry and civil service leadership is stupid and offensive.

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Secondly Dublin bus must surely know that many of their timetables are complete fantasy. I have often stood at a stop for 30-40 mins during which time as many as 3 buses should have stopped (not just talking about rush hour either, it has often happened at times when roads are deserted and congestion can not be blamed).Would electronic signs (such as they have at DART stations) indicating time of the next bus arrival be too much to ask?

There have been Real-time displays installed in Dublin for nearly 10 years now, a pilot scheme was set up on a few routes to the west of the city. Funding for a full scale roll-out was never approved by government. Last year DB issued a tender for a complete bus tracking/RTPI/Internet system but AFAIK that has again stalled in the quagmire of the desk of the Minister for Transport.

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Also if the management of Dublin bus know that some time tables are figments of some peoples imagination (they surely must) can more accurate timetables not be prepared?

The process of changing timetables can take ? amount of time, It is not as simple as scribbling down a new table and having the office secretary photocopy them. Rosters need to be worked out to ensure that there are enough drivers and buses at all times to cover the services within the legal working hours, the drivers then usually have a say on the new rosters.

The biggest problem though is that all changes must be submitted to the DoT who decide based on their own timetable and as often as not the answer from them (many months later) is No.

There have been plenty of improvements, both increased/improved timetables and new routes that have been indefinitely shelved because of this parculiarly Irish way of (Not) running things.

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

These are just things that occured to me without really thinking out the consequences. Its just that traffic congestion and public transport are both getting worse by the day without much being done. A lot of my ideas probably wouldn't work but seeing as NO ideas whatsoever are being tried I thought I'd chuck my 2c out there. The thing about public transport is that you can build as many QBCs as you like but until motorists actually trust that the public transport system willl be efficient and get them to work when it syas it will etc they will not be convinced to leave the car at home.

Nothing is being done because there is no problem, if there was then surely the people that have caused the problem would not have been returned to office again?

John R · 17-10-2007 1:37am

markf909 wrote: »

In conjunction with a fully operational and authoratitive Dublin Transport Office.

The political vaccum that (mis) governs the curent shamble must be dismantled.

1 very large IED for Kildare St. please.

meanmachine3 · 17-10-2007 9:56am

you may or may not be aware but when a bus leaves it's termini it only has a certain amount of time to get to the other side. unfortunately with the way dublin is these days most of these times are impossible to adhere to. e.g
a 27 leaving town would only have say 45 mins to get to clare hall, if that bus arrives alot later than the 45 mins then thats where you problem arises. thats why you have the 3 up 1 down case becuase the other 2 buses may well be running late. even with new times coming out they only last a couple of months at best because congestion is getting far worse than we can keep up with.
i know there are plans afoot to get private traffic out of the city centre , from georges street/dame street up to o'connell bridge also including trinity and pearse street. these are a couple of years away

mickoneill30 · 17-10-2007 10:33am

What do the traffic corps Gardai do? I'm not being smart, I'm just wondering if they actually try to improve traffic or just respond to accidents.

Yesterday I walked from Leeson St. - Dawson St. - Trinity at around 5pm. I passed a pretty constant non moving line of buses and cars from Leeson St. - the bottom of Dawson St. On Dawson St. there was a van parked in the bus lane with the magic blinkers on and another couple of cars parked in parking spots (just overstayed their times). How hard is it to police this stuff?

Things I can think of to improve public transport.

Get the Department of Transport working. Dublin Bus have applied to get 41Xs using the port tunnel months ago. The DOT is still looking at it's belly button or something similar. Anything that improves public transport should be given priority.

Put video cameras on the front of buses. Dublin drivers are crap, really crap. Every day I sit on buses that are feet away from a totally clear bus lane but we can't get on it becuase some muppet has decided the yellow box means nothing to him or other muppets that decide they need to queue across bus lanes to get where they're going.

More Gardai out there to enforce the laws (or a special traffic unit with nothing else to do except improve traffic and leave the Gardai to do Gardai work). Every day whether driving or in a bus you will see idiots do something blatantly stupid or dangerous. If I see these idiots during every trip why don't the Gards? People are driving stupid because they're getting away with it.

markpb · 17-10-2007 10:42am

I think it could be summed up in one sentence. A government and city council that gives a **** would make a big difference. Really, that's all there is too it. Right now, public transport isn't a voting issue so it's not important on politicians minds.

KC61 · 17-10-2007 10:44am

mickoneill30 wrote: »

What do the traffic corps Gardai do? I'm not being smart, I'm just wondering if they actually try to improve traffic or just respond to accidents.

Yesterday I walked from Leeson St. - Dawson St. - Trinity at around 5pm. I passed a pretty constant non moving line of buses and cars from Leeson St. - the bottom of Dawson St. On Dawson St. there was a van parked in the bus lane with the magic blinkers on and another couple of cars parked in parking spots (just overstayed their times). How hard is it to police this stuff?

Things I can think of to improve public transport.

Get the Department of Transport working. Dublin Bus have applied to get 41Xs using the port tunnel months ago. The DOT is still looking at it's belly button or something similar. Anything that improves public transport should be given priority.

Put video cameras on the front of buses. Dublin drivers are crap, really crap. Every day I sit on buses that are feet away from a totally clear bus lane but we can't get on it becuase some muppet has decided the yellow box means nothing to him or other muppets that decide they need to queue across bus lanes to get where they're going.

More Gardai out there to enforce the laws (or a special traffic unit with nothing else to do except improve traffic and leave the Gardai to do Gardai work). Every day whether driving or in a bus you will see idiots do something blatantly stupid or dangerous. If I see these idiots during every trip why don't the Gards? People are driving stupid because they're getting away with it.

There are already forward facing video cameras on all Dublin Bus vehicles.

KC61 · 17-10-2007 10:48am

You may have missed the following post in the "Conflicts of Interest" thread by Antoinolachtnai, that I have copied here re Swords. No mention is made of frequency/fares/vehicle type etc.

What impact this will have on the 41X and proposed 141 is still not clear, but if it prevents the 141 starting and is anything less than a 15-minute frequency all day service as proposed for the 141 then Swords is getting a raw deal!

"My company, Digital Messenger Ltd. has recently been issued with a licence to operate a public transport service from Swords to the City Centre via the Port Tunnel. It will trade under the name 'Swords Express' (http://www.swordsexpress.com/). We plan to begin operating in November"

mickoneill30 · 17-10-2007 10:49am

KC61 wrote: »

There are already forward facing video cameras on all Dublin Bus vehicles.

Are they turned on? I know a lot of the footage would be garbage but if a bus is tailgating a car in a bus lane how about some button the driver could press so that a photo was taken or the video marked so the said muppet could get a ticket.

KC61 · 17-10-2007 10:53am

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Are they turned on? I know a lot of the footage would be garbage but if a bus is tailgating a car in a bus lane how about some button the driver could press so that a photo was taken or the video marked so the said muppet could get a ticket.

Like all of the cameras on buses they are permanently switched on, and are recording digital images.

mickoneill30 · 17-10-2007 10:55am

KC61 wrote: »

Like all of the cameras on buses they are permanently switched on, and are recording digital images.

And are those images used for anything?

Colonel Sanders · 17-10-2007 11:02am

jrar wrote: »

I presume you mean Heuston Station in Dublin as distinct from Euston in London ??

Yes, damn my speling!

Colonel Sanders · 17-10-2007 11:08am

mickoneill30 wrote: »

More Gardai out there to enforce the laws (or a special traffic unit with nothing else to do except improve traffic and leave the Gardai to do Gardai work). Every day whether driving or in a bus you will see idiots do something blatantly stupid or dangerous. If I see these idiots during every trip why don't the Gards? People are driving stupid because they're getting away with it.

During operation freeflow (what a joke!!) there were guards at every junction that i pass on the way to work. People were still just ignoring the rules of the road and the guards were just standing there with their hands in their pockets!!! Not even a note pad noting reg. numbers or anything.

tampopo · 17-10-2007 1:30pm

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

During operation freeflow (what a joke!!) there were guards at every junction that i pass on the way to work. People were still just ignoring the rules of the road and the guards were just standing there with their hands in their pockets!!! Not even a note pad noting reg. numbers or anything.

Just recently, I was going into a Spar that had a double yellow line AND a Clearway in front of it. A car was parked on the double yellow line. A local Guard was there, walking past. I said to him, "would you look at that, and would you not do something about it, he's blocking a possible second lane of traffic. It's a double yellow line AND a clearway." He said, "Ah, I'll give him a minute and see if he's gone."

I paid my bill in the post office, and by the time I came out a couple of minutes later, there were THREE cars parked on the double yellow line! How the Spar got planning permission, I don't know. Evening rush hour is chronic. If the Guards are seen not to be dealing with traffic infractions, it only encourages more bad driving/parking.

I've found traffic a bit better during the month of the Freeflow, my question is, where the heck are they the other 11 months? And if it's manpower levels, does that mean the crims are getting away with murder (!) during Freeflow!??!?!?

El Stuntman · 17-10-2007 4:07pm

is there any scope to levy BIK on people who are given free city centre parking spaces by their employers? This is a form of extra remuneration yet is not taxed

if you assume that €2.50 is an average hourly charge and each user parks their car for 8 hours per day

€20 extra income per day
€100 per week

assume a 40 week working year

€4000 per year

charge BIK on this at 20% = €800

would this incentivise motorists to switch to public transport?

Nuttzz · 17-10-2007 10:46pm

El Stuntman wrote: »

is there any scope to levy BIK on people who are given free city centre parking spaces by their employers? This is a form of extra remuneration yet is not taxed

if you assume that €2.50 is an average hourly charge and each user parks their car for 8 hours per day

€20 extra income per day
€100 per week

assume a 40 week working year

€4000 per year

charge BIK on this at 20% = €800

would this incentivise motorists to switch to public transport?

no, leave people in the pouring rain as they watch full buses pass them by, it would be worth paying the 800 per annum to avoid the bus

Colonel Sanders · 18-10-2007 1:11pm

Nuttzz wrote: »

no, leave people in the pouring rain as they watch full buses pass them by, it would be worth paying the 800 per annum to avoid the bus

This is knid of the situation we are in now. Congestion is awful but a lot of people know that the journey ahead will be a nightmare but if they leave at Xam they will behind their desk at 9am to start work whereas they can't depend on Dublin bus as Dublin bus can't be depended on.

Colonel Sanders · 18-10-2007 1:13pm

El Stuntman wrote: »

is there any scope to levy BIK on people who are given free city centre parking spaces by their employers? This is a form of extra remuneration yet is not taxed

Is BIK not levied on this? What a load of b*llox. I get BIK levied on my health insurance subsidies, options to buy shares at below market price and just about ecverything else. Why is parking exempt from BIK? (of topic slightly, sorry!!)

LuckyStar · 28-10-2007 4:39am

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Secondly Dublin bus must surely know that many of their timetables are complete fantasy.

Yep. According to their website the 66A's journey from Pearse to Captain's Hill is 65 minutes. It isn't, it's always 45-50 (this route is usually fairly punctual, unlike the 66) so you could easily miss your bus by 15 or 20 mins.

_Kaiser_ · 28-10-2007 9:48am

1. Run it for the benefit of the commuting public, not to suit CIE management and unions.
2. More orbital routes. Far too many trips involve a completely unnecessary detour through "city centre".
3. Deal with the antisocial element in an effective manner.
4. Improve maintenance and general cleanliness standards.
5. Realise that Dublin has become a 24 hour city and that there is still demand after 23:30.
6. Real-time information at all stops.
7. Integrated ticketing AND services. By this I mean having buses terminate at other bus/train/LUAS stations. Not everyone wants to (or is able to) walk 15/20 minutes to make a connection.
8. Revise the fare structure completely, ideally to 3 - 50c , €1, €2
9. Reintroduce dual-door buses to decrease dwell times. Make the drivers use them. Having to squeeze your way up the complete length of an AW for example is ridiculous.
10. Increased accountability of staff, and more on-street/random spot checks. This would likely upset the unions, but refer to point 1.
11. Introduce an effective managing body to oversee all this and liaise with other agencies (DCC, Gardai etc) where necessary.
12. Ongoing reviews of performance so that "changing with the city" actually becomes more than a snappy catchphrase.

Finally, penalising people for using their cars will achieve nothing. Look at the debate on the upcoming changes to the provisional licenses.. most people have stated they'll drive regardless - not for the sake of it, but because they genuinely don't see/have any REALISTIC (refer to point 7 here) alternatives.

If the public transport services provided are made more attractive by implementing changes, such as those above, to the benefit of the commuter then people will willingly switch.

mikemac · 28-10-2007 10:26am

All good points listed above so I'll just add this one.

Crackdown on anti-social behaviour.
This can be done setting up a dedicated Transport Police or even just hire private security.

This puts a lot of people off using public transport. And after a long days work I don't particularly want to share my seat with a load of trouble making skangers shouting, smoking and drinking Dutch gold. Commuters on the 77 can verify this.

I don't expect a driver to face down troublemakers. Put in the staff to deal with this as it's a serious barrier to getting people to use public transport.

bryanw · 28-10-2007 10:46am

All transport problems in this country are related - and the transport system in this country is an utter shambles.

Ideally there would be one big integrated, public company that would run all public transport, but with CIE not having a hope in hell of being able to do this - get rid of them - privatise it all, it can't be any worse than what it is now!

We need a Dublin Transport Authority with POWERS and maybe another to cover the rest of the country. Use a common logo or system across all modes of transport and common bus stops - all buses, trains and trams etc. will be the same colour. Give out contracts to private companies and they'll service the route. If the don't perform, the contract is given to someone else - simple.

Its the entire public system that stands in the way of all progress in this country. At the top is the government who don't care what happens as long as they are portrayed to be doing some positive work. Then there are the top civil servants who are paid vast amounts of money to oversee the implementation of all these grand government visions, who also don't care - just as long as they get paid. Then of course there are the normal civil servants who just do (or don't do) there jobs properly. There is no incentive for civil servants to perform - they get paid regardless and have job security. Oh and then of course there is the trade unions...

It really is shambolic. I assume all readers are familiar with the Dart, or more particularly the stations along the line. They really are a haven of impeccable customer service...

I am absolutely astounded that IE remove old benches and shelters with no notion of replacing them. Some stations have only one bench! Hell what am I saying - some stations have NO bench! Take Shankill station. Would you believe it has no bench or shelter on either platform whatsoever? Because it's true! Do you kow what even more amazing - some stations may have one bench and one shelter - would it be too much to ask people to put the bench UNDER the shelter, or would that be like telling people the world is round? Same goes for rubbish bins - they only exist if your lucky.

And the whole thing about Dart timetables is also unacceptable. Too often there is the situation 1 Bray 2mins, 2 Bray 7mins, 3 Bray 33mins. And what's all this for? Is it to let a commuter train with about 2 people on it into town?

I found out that (older stations of course) when railways were run by private companies - they even had indoor waiting rooms! Thank you IE for bringing rail transport in Ireland into the 21st century!

The more I use public transport in this country - the worse it gets. You couldn't depend on any of it. I use the 46a regularly and its about the only good service - I just have to walk 15 mins to get to it. Could use the 145 because it's a little closer, but its not dependable enough even though journey times are better than the 46a. On the N11 QBC there are a number of simple improvements that could be made. There are several T-junctions that the bus has to stop at. Why isn't the bus allowed to go, as no traffic would be interfering with the bus lane. Also - why oh why does the 46a have to go through Sillorgan village? It adds 5-10 mins to journey time.

I supported the government in the election - I didn't vote for Fianna Fail but did support them - but I'm seriously losing that support now. I'm not one to agree with Pat Rabbitte but on the radio the other day he said that everything the government has touched since they were returned has turned into a mess. I'm afraid its true...

Zoney · 28-10-2007 10:54am

micmclo wrote: »

Crackdown on anti-social behaviour.
This can be done setting up a dedicated Transport Police or even just hire private security.

This puts a lot of people off using public transport. And after a long days work I don't particularly want to share my seat with a load of trouble making skangers shouting, smoking and drinking Dutch gold. Commuters on the 77 can verify this.

I don't expect a driver to face down troublemakers. Put in the staff to deal with this as it's a serious barrier to getting people to use public transport.

This is a bigger issue than just public transport. People don't want that kind of behaviour or those kind of people around streets or anything either. Unfortunately, it requires a lot more than effective policing (though that would be very good and welcome!)

It's like the problem of littering. Sure we could spend more collecting it, we could have bigger penalties, and run campaigns to stop littering. But ultimately it is only a *symptom* and we need to avoid the situation where we have disgusting ignorant pigs being reared in this country, across all classes. Of course, some obvious and not outrageous action would make sense like not cramming kids into overcrowded decaying schools that pigs would object to.

I think a lot of people who see themselves as more civilised (and maybe indeed are) are still influenced by the crudeness here and do not realise just how abominable things are in Ireland. If you think things here aren't that bad, I suggest getting someone from say Germany, to tell you as to what they really think about their experiences in Ireland.

murphaph · 28-10-2007 1:32pm

bryanw wrote: »

All transport problems in this country are related - and the transport system in this country is an utter shambles.

Ideally there would be one big integrated, public company that would run all public transport, but with CIE not having a hope in hell of being able to do this - get rid of them - privatise it all, it can't be any worse than what it is now!

We need a Dublin Transport Authority with POWERS and maybe another to cover the rest of the country. Use a common logo or system across all modes of transport and common bus stops - all buses, trains and trams etc. will be the same colour. Give out contracts to private companies and they'll service the route. If the don't perform, the contract is given to someone else - simple.

Its the entire public system that stands in the way of all progress in this country. At the top is the government who don't care what happens as long as they are portrayed to be doing some positive work. Then there are the top civil servants who are paid vast amounts of money to oversee the implementation of all these grand government visions, who also don't care - just as long as they get paid. Then of course there are the normal civil servants who just do (or don't do) there jobs properly. There is no incentive for civil servants to perform - they get paid regardless and have job security. Oh and then of course there is the trade unions...

It really is shambolic. I assume all readers are familiar with the Dart, or more particularly the stations along the line. They really are a haven of impeccable customer service...

I am absolutely astounded that IE remove old benches and shelters with no notion of replacing them. Some stations have only one bench! Hell what am I saying - some stations have NO bench! Take Shankill station. Would you believe it has no bench or shelter on either platform whatsoever? Because it's true! Do you kow what even more amazing - some stations may have one bench and one shelter - would it be too much to ask people to put the bench UNDER the shelter, or would that be like telling people the world is round? Same goes for rubbish bins - they only exist if your lucky.

And the whole thing about Dart timetables is also unacceptable. Too often there is the situation 1 Bray 2mins, 2 Bray 7mins, 3 Bray 33mins. And what's all this for? Is it to let a commuter train with about 2 people on it into town?

I found out that (older stations of course) when railways were run by private companies - they even had indoor waiting rooms! Thank you IE for bringing rail transport in Ireland into the 21st century!

The more I use public transport in this country - the worse it gets. You couldn't depend on any of it. I use the 46a regularly and its about the only good service - I just have to walk 15 mins to get to it. Could use the 145 because it's a little closer, but its not dependable enough even though journey times are better than the 46a. On the N11 QBC there are a number of simple improvements that could be made. There are several T-junctions that the bus has to stop at. Why isn't the bus allowed to go, as no traffic would be interfering with the bus lane. Also - why oh why does the 46a have to go through Sillorgan village? It adds 5-10 mins to journey time.

I supported the government in the election - I didn't vote for Fianna Fail but did support them - but I'm seriously losing that support now. I'm not one to agree with Pat Rabbitte but on the radio the other day he said that everything the government has touched since they were returned has turned into a mess. I'm afraid its true...

I was able to fully appreciate your perspective all along until I got to the last bit! I was conned by FF 5 1/2 years ago and they got my vote. I wasn't conned last time round. Things were turning into a mess well before the last general elecion bryanw!

I don't however believe that privatisation is the only answer. Why must we have the one nationalised transport monopoly that can't manage an integrated cash fare ticket between two of it's buses in the same city? CIE is a joke, but it could be replaced wholesale with a public body that functioned (the DTA will presumably be a public body). There is a place for private companies to bid for services so long as they maintain minimum service levels etc.

AlekSmart · 28-10-2007 2:52pm

Quote Bryanw :
[ "The more I use public transport in this country - the worse it gets. You couldn't depend on any of it. I use the 46a regularly and its about the only good service - I just have to walk 15 mins to get to it. Could use the 145 because it's a little closer, but its not dependable enough even though journey times are better than the 46a. On the N11 QBC there are a number of simple improvements that could be made. There are several T-junctions that the bus has to stop at. Why isn't the bus allowed to go, as no traffic would be interfering with the bus lane. Also - why oh why does the 46a have to go through Sillorgan village? It adds 5-10 mins to journey time." ] End quote.

Bus Atha Cliath in its dealings and deliberations concerning the N11 QBC has,at the last count,over 15 DIFFERENT agencies and statutory bodies to reference with in relation to this SINGLE corridor.

Each of these agencies has a structure and a VERY IMPORTANT Executive who must be deferred to before any thing is altered on their turf.

If we are honest about this supposed "Flagship" QBC it is now yet another classic case of an originally excellent concept which was introduced and then abandoned while everybody ran pell-mell off to tinker around at the next best new-thing.

Has anybody bothered to take a close look at what was one of the single most difficult constituent parts of this QUALITY Bus Corridor.....The N11 Super Shelter at Stillorgan (Inbound).

Allowing this QBC`s routes to by-pass Stillorgan Village was always a key element to guaranteeing the functionality of the QBC concept here.
It was only after an obscene amount of deliberation,negotiation and international diplomacy that a (typically Irish) compromise was reached to allow peak-time services to actually aspire to being a QBC.

AS part of this the new super shelter was erected along with improvements to the street lighting and clearing away the years of dense neglected undfergrowth.
The principle is EXCELLENT and it WORKS !
Any inconvienence incurred due to stopping some 500 mtrs further from the Shopping Centre is more than compensated for by a far quicker journey which also manages to avoid a very uncomfortable severe high cambered left-turn on the exit from the old-Stillorgan road.

However take a look today....the super shelter is little more than a black painted skeleton,no glass,no protection with the entire area strewn with litter,rotting vegetation and even faecal matter,presumably in an attempt by some individuals to scent-mark "Their" territory.

It`s a goddam disgrace and yet again in true Irish style....Its NOBODY`s responsibility....The state of this stop alone would ensure that any new customers trying out our Flagship QBC would hi-tail it NEVER to return.

A little further back up the N11 at Galloping Green (Inbound) we see yet more evidence of the "Who gives a Flukk" attitude.

Here,after some 2 months of faffing around, the Local Authority and its civil works contractor managed to Plan,Devise,Construct and Commission an extended length Disabled Access Bus Bay TOTALLY BACKWARDS ! :mad:

Take a look next time yiz pass by,a la WB Yeats Horseman...

On a QBC which utilizes some of the LONGEST and Highest Capacity vehicles in the BAC fleet it is imperitave that a driver can align the vehicle correctly with the Kassel Kerbing and the Shelter in order to SAFELY cater for passengers.

At Galloping Green however,our Professional Roads and Traffic division decided to have a little fun.....Thus we have the Shelter and Stop positioned at the entry to the Bus Bay so that a 13 metre long Tri-Axle,if brought to a halt correctly to address the stop,now leaves a significant amount of its rear-end sticking out into the Bus Lane which the Bay is designed to keep it clear of.

If the Busdriver attempts to compensate by pulling the Bus further along to position it close and parallell to the Kerb then those intending passengers take umbrage and fright which can lead to them running alongside and banging aggressively on the side of the bus,fearful that the driver is going to zoom away without them.

The Contractor even managed to compound the initial error by installing a steel Pedestrian Barrier which leads pedestrians AWAY from the stop,when it`s intended function was to guide pedestrians SAFELY from the Pedestrian Crossing TO the damn shelter/stop.

Given the general traffic flow and speed along this section of the N11 this single aspect is perhaps the greatest threat to public safety and could in the blink of an eye result in multiple fatalities.

To say that nobody gives a damn is perhaps an understatement as I have reported the situation on several occasions to as many different responsible presons and representatives as I could find and been greeted with glazed over dull expressions of disinterest.

So there yiz have it...after some two decades of QBC`ism this is what we have....
What should be a massively capable hi-capacity Public Transport corridor is little more than a sham...an Irish Sham at that with NOBODY in charge,NOBODY responsible and for sure NOBODY going to do anything about it`s shambolic condition.

I wonder what the salaries of the relevant County Managers are..... ? Brave New World.? :mad:

bryanw · 28-10-2007 3:31pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

I wonder what the salaries of the relevant County Managers are..... ? Brave New World.? :mad:

Read your post with interest... Just the Galloping Green stop you mentioned... I actually find it mind boggling that people are actually getting PAID large amounts of money to make these monumental c**k-ups DELIBERATELY! Because I don't actually see how ANYBODY could make mistakes like this by accident.

Well whatever the salaries are - you can be damn sure that there will be no reduction in their pay (if not a pay rise) if there is ever any public humiliation of this matter.

murphaph wrote:

...I was conned by FF 5 1/2 years ago and they got my vote. I wasn't conned last time round. Things were turning into a mess well before the last general elecion bryanw!

Well I did say that I didn't vote for FF but the reason I supported the outgoing government was because they were the better of two bad options. There really is no choice. You've got both FF and FG which aren't really any different and the reality is either one of them will be the main player in any government. They had almost identical transport policies and didn't give them the priority they deserved. Enda Kenny really did lose and un-losable election. Unfortunately its only the smaller players that have any vision in this country and they're too small to get any significant power to change a whole lot of things.

murphaph wrote:

I don't however believe that privatisation is the only answer. Why must we have the one nationalised transport monopoly that can't manage an integrated cash fare ticket between two of it's buses in the same city? CIE is a joke, but it could be replaced wholesale with a public body that functioned (the DTA will presumably be a public body). There is a place for private companies to bid for services so long as they maintain minimum service levels etc.

I do agree that privatisation isn't the only option we have - it is going to take some initiative to come up with a plan that will work. A DTA was promised 2 years ago and never came to fruition - this is what needed to be put in place before anything was done, whatever mix of public/private there was going to be.

It's possible privatisation could make things worse, I mean most of the private bus services around Dublin aren't particularly well run. We also don't need a private portion trying to follow a bar-setting CIE with almost total market share. Something has to be done to CIE - that's the bottom line that I'm sure everyone will agree with.

What can be done to improve public transport?

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